Mos
Members
- Aug 23, 2015
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Word of warning - serious eye wound in safe zone
- Thread starter rosco290
- Start date
Personally I think the safe zone should be that... Safe! I wouldnt expect to get shot in the face, I KNOW theres a risk there, there always has been.. People with RIFs, tinkering, checking battery level by dry firing etc. Hell even at Epsom I shat myself as 3 player marshals were having a full blown pistol fight in the safe zone with NO EYEPRO whilst paying customers were sitting there with none on... suffice to say John was not a happy camper.
Also have seen a loaded moscart (facing upwards) go off on someone while it was in a pouch and peppered them in the chin, luckily it missed the face.
But after all the comments and the other thread I can see the need for something in certain situations.
I guess im saying my opinion has changed a bit and depending on the situation and location I may be inclined to wear my glasses in the safe zone. BUT as demonstrated at the Mall (in my experience) I shouldnt need too and I think this is the main point in all the discussions.
Accidents can happen, hell someone could ping me in the face with an elastic band in the office an I could lose an eye. I just wish people were more sensible, although I suppose we have all had our moments of stupidness.
I guess each site should do a "HOW SAFE IS OUR SAFE ZONE" risk assessment ASAP!!
Also have seen a loaded moscart (facing upwards) go off on someone while it was in a pouch and peppered them in the chin, luckily it missed the face.
But after all the comments and the other thread I can see the need for something in certain situations.
I guess im saying my opinion has changed a bit and depending on the situation and location I may be inclined to wear my glasses in the safe zone. BUT as demonstrated at the Mall (in my experience) I shouldnt need too and I think this is the main point in all the discussions.
Accidents can happen, hell someone could ping me in the face with an elastic band in the office an I could lose an eye. I just wish people were more sensible, although I suppose we have all had our moments of stupidness.
I guess each site should do a "HOW SAFE IS OUR SAFE ZONE" risk assessment ASAP!!
NickM
Supporters
- Apr 29, 2012
- 560
- 181
I think the idea that "this could have happened anywhere" is a problematic one.
I have to quote my dad here (wow this is a first for this forum) "accidents don't just happen!". He worked for an international outdoor education provider and would as part of his duties perform safety reviews of his own and of other sites.
It's true, they don't just happen, in this instance as has already been mentioned there were a catalogue of errors that mean this shouldn't have happened! If any one of these things had happened correctly the result never would have occurred.
1. Dry firing banned in the safezone.
2. Basic player conduct and safe zone rules mentioned on sign in and expanded on /repeated at briefing. (there is a reason even though you have been to the site 20 times that year you must sit through this! And it massively F's me off when people dick about during safety brief, I would treat this seriously, if you cant pay attention to this you shouldn't be on site full stop!)
3. Marshal presence in the safe zone monitoring 1 and 2.
4. On returning to the safe zone marshals indicate positively to mag out and take clearing shots to each player (a ball ache but not impossible, UCAP sandpit do this every game to regularly well over 100 players).
5. The player had removed his mag, cocked and fired his weapon
6. Put the safety catch on.
7. The marshals had observed steps 5, 6 and positively checked each weapon for mag out.
Notice I have 5 of my 7 steps focused on the marshal and site team this is because they are responsible for players knowing and understanding their requirements for safe conduct at the site. However the responsibility lies with the players ultimately to follow the instructions and expectations ensuring safety for all.
While there is a possibility of this happening at any site, it just doesn't happen because the behaviour listed in this post in most sites just wouldn't be tolerated.
Please note at no point has age been mentioned, I genuinely don't think age is factor, I have met incredibly mature teens and massively immature 50 year olds.
I have to quote my dad here (wow this is a first for this forum) "accidents don't just happen!". He worked for an international outdoor education provider and would as part of his duties perform safety reviews of his own and of other sites.
It's true, they don't just happen, in this instance as has already been mentioned there were a catalogue of errors that mean this shouldn't have happened! If any one of these things had happened correctly the result never would have occurred.
1. Dry firing banned in the safezone.
2. Basic player conduct and safe zone rules mentioned on sign in and expanded on /repeated at briefing. (there is a reason even though you have been to the site 20 times that year you must sit through this! And it massively F's me off when people dick about during safety brief, I would treat this seriously, if you cant pay attention to this you shouldn't be on site full stop!)
3. Marshal presence in the safe zone monitoring 1 and 2.
4. On returning to the safe zone marshals indicate positively to mag out and take clearing shots to each player (a ball ache but not impossible, UCAP sandpit do this every game to regularly well over 100 players).
5. The player had removed his mag, cocked and fired his weapon
6. Put the safety catch on.
7. The marshals had observed steps 5, 6 and positively checked each weapon for mag out.
Notice I have 5 of my 7 steps focused on the marshal and site team this is because they are responsible for players knowing and understanding their requirements for safe conduct at the site. However the responsibility lies with the players ultimately to follow the instructions and expectations ensuring safety for all.
While there is a possibility of this happening at any site, it just doesn't happen because the behaviour listed in this post in most sites just wouldn't be tolerated.
Please note at no point has age been mentioned, I genuinely don't think age is factor, I have met incredibly mature teens and massively immature 50 year olds.
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Alex34
Members
- Nov 27, 2014
- 330
- 100
All of that sounds good but we don't know the full story and the fact that players are meddling with their guns (reloading, regasing, readjusting) in the safe zone of every airsoft site in the UK leads to the possibility of accidents. None of what you listed would have prevented the accident if the player irresponsibly reloaded his rifle in the safe zone. Socks on the barrels would be the only prevention and even then an irresponsible player could take his off in the safe zone and this could happen.
Marshalls cannot watch everyone all the time and you as a player cannot leave your health in the hands of some one else just because he/she has been safety briefed.
The best cure is prevention. Wearing safety glasses in the safe zone is the best way you can protect yourself I think. The same as wearing full face protection or goggles in live areas. It's something I will be seriously looking into.
It only takes one bb and one accidental discharge.
Marshalls cannot watch everyone all the time and you as a player cannot leave your health in the hands of some one else just because he/she has been safety briefed.
The best cure is prevention. Wearing safety glasses in the safe zone is the best way you can protect yourself I think. The same as wearing full face protection or goggles in live areas. It's something I will be seriously looking into.
It only takes one bb and one accidental discharge.
BlackDragon
Members
- Dec 18, 2015
- 29
- 13
Anyone local to the incident got an update on the lad as to how he is doing? Anything about him in the local rag?
n1ckh
Members
- Aug 21, 2014
- 1,323
- 609
From what I've read, he's lost his eye
but otherwise he's on the mend (apart from nightmares etc that accompanies a trauma like that)
Aunty Pasty
Members
- Mar 15, 2015
- 176
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That's a real shame but from what people have said earlier in the thread, not unexpected. I didn't see anything further regarding this on Facebook UKAC.From what I've read, he's lost his eye
n1ckh
Members
- Aug 21, 2014
- 1,323
- 609
It is & it's a crying shame that things like this happen but sometimes we do have to learn the hard way
I will be wearing my eyrpro in the safe zone now (my sites pretty hot on safety) & I will be making my boys do the sameHypermonkey
Members
- Oct 25, 2015
- 13
- 1
I was at The Mall yesterday and it was clear to see that this incident has had a knock on effect.
There was a large sign at the entrance to the safe zone saying no mags in guns and no dry firing in the safe zone. The incident (no site names given) was mentioned in the briefing and the fact that dry firing was not permitted in the safe zone was reiterated throughout the day. One chap got a final warning due to putting a mag his weapon in the safe zone but apart from that the ruling was adhered to by all.
There was a large sign at the entrance to the safe zone saying no mags in guns and no dry firing in the safe zone. The incident (no site names given) was mentioned in the briefing and the fact that dry firing was not permitted in the safe zone was reiterated throughout the day. One chap got a final warning due to putting a mag his weapon in the safe zone but apart from that the ruling was adhered to by all.
djben9
Moderator
- Jul 7, 2015
- 2,371
- 308
it was mentioned at Tudders yesterday, but they have always had a strict policy when ive been there, and I heard no battery testing/dry firing in the car park 
out of curiosity, many sites we play at are old, how many mention asbestos?, now that was mentioned as well, warned of areas to keep clear of and the area cordoned off again (some idiot moved the fencing, not heard that at UA and the buildings there are very likely to contain it with dust being kicked up due to vandalism
out of curiosity, many sites we play at are old, how many mention asbestos?, now that was mentioned as well, warned of areas to keep clear of and the area cordoned off again (some idiot moved the fencing, not heard that at UA and the buildings there are very likely to contain it with dust being kicked up due to vandalism
Alex34
Members
- Nov 27, 2014
- 330
- 100
You and me both matey!It is & it's a crying shame that things like this happen but sometimes we do have to learn the hard way
The sites here (IOM) are pretty hot on safety. Safety briefings every game - even if it's only regulars who turn up. Mags out, no dry firing in safe zone. If you want to dry fire, put your eyepro on and walk out of the safe zone. Makes testing your battery etc a bit more of a nuisance, but a price everyone gladly pays for the extra safety.
Terrible accident - but you have to wonder if these kids were ever given a safety briefing? You do not point an airsoft weapon at someone who is not wearing eyepro. Ever. Even if they are wearing eyepro, you don't point an airsoft gun at them unless in the right context (in a live game). This is basically the number 1 rule in all weapon safety discussions, if everything else has failed so long as the gun is pointed in a safe direction there can be no incidents.
There were obviously multiple other failures that lead to this tragic incident, but that is #1.
Terrible accident - but you have to wonder if these kids were ever given a safety briefing? You do not point an airsoft weapon at someone who is not wearing eyepro. Ever. Even if they are wearing eyepro, you don't point an airsoft gun at them unless in the right context (in a live game). This is basically the number 1 rule in all weapon safety discussions, if everything else has failed so long as the gun is pointed in a safe direction there can be no incidents.
There were obviously multiple other failures that lead to this tragic incident, but that is #1.
It has been a number of weeks since the accident so not sure how many of you will pick up on this, but I am the dad of the boy who was shot in the eye.
Thank you all for your kind thoughts and concern.
He has permanently lost the site in his eye but he seems to be coping quite well. Just hope it doesn't hit him in the future. He is back rock climbing and up to most of his usual tricks.
For the record, he finished the game, removed the mag but left the gun in the game area so did not make safe. This was a mistake.
In conversation the other lad who is not a friend but was known to one of his friends, asked if he could borrow the gun. He went out into the game area to bring it back but did not check it. I am not sure about timing in relation to, if people were still coming back in from the game. Maybe someone could fill in that info for me. Was everyone else out of the game zone?
He was not testing or dry firing the gun in the safe zone, but looking at it and seeing how it felt. He did not realise there was a BB in the chamber. No excuse though he should not have pointed at someone, safe or not.
I don't want to enter a debate on the rights and wrongs of this accident, I am posting this to let you all know that he is coping. It was and is a trauma. I would like to thank rosco in particular for helping out.
I am not an airsoft player, it was the boys granddad who got them interested. However I have spent enough time playing rugby for 30 years and partaking in many other activities and have seen many injuries, though non as bad as this. We cannot wrap ourselves in cotton wool or our kids, otherwise they will spend all day on the Xbox.
Was this accident avoidable? Yes aren't they all. We can all say what if?
Who is to blame? As mentioned by a number of people, several parties including to some extent my son.
One post was not too complementary to my lad (I think) but we all have our opinions, even if we do not know the full facts.
I could go on all night but will not bore you all.
Guys, enjoy your activity, do not get hung up on the over zealous safety freaks who would stop us enjoying life. We do these things sometimes because of the element of risk. Be safe all of you so that this cannot happen again.
I am glad to see that so many have reacted positively to good suggestions to make the safe zone safe.
Thank you all for your kind thoughts and concern.
He has permanently lost the site in his eye but he seems to be coping quite well. Just hope it doesn't hit him in the future. He is back rock climbing and up to most of his usual tricks.
For the record, he finished the game, removed the mag but left the gun in the game area so did not make safe. This was a mistake.
In conversation the other lad who is not a friend but was known to one of his friends, asked if he could borrow the gun. He went out into the game area to bring it back but did not check it. I am not sure about timing in relation to, if people were still coming back in from the game. Maybe someone could fill in that info for me. Was everyone else out of the game zone?
He was not testing or dry firing the gun in the safe zone, but looking at it and seeing how it felt. He did not realise there was a BB in the chamber. No excuse though he should not have pointed at someone, safe or not.
I don't want to enter a debate on the rights and wrongs of this accident, I am posting this to let you all know that he is coping. It was and is a trauma. I would like to thank rosco in particular for helping out.
I am not an airsoft player, it was the boys granddad who got them interested. However I have spent enough time playing rugby for 30 years and partaking in many other activities and have seen many injuries, though non as bad as this. We cannot wrap ourselves in cotton wool or our kids, otherwise they will spend all day on the Xbox.
Was this accident avoidable? Yes aren't they all. We can all say what if?
Who is to blame? As mentioned by a number of people, several parties including to some extent my son.
One post was not too complementary to my lad (I think) but we all have our opinions, even if we do not know the full facts.
I could go on all night but will not bore you all.
Guys, enjoy your activity, do not get hung up on the over zealous safety freaks who would stop us enjoying life. We do these things sometimes because of the element of risk. Be safe all of you so that this cannot happen again.
I am glad to see that so many have reacted positively to good suggestions to make the safe zone safe.
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Forums tend to have a lot less vitriol than social media. You don't owe any of us anything. I don't think anyone has had permanent eye damage before from playing airsoft in the UK (not sure this even can be described as playing), point is, don't think ill of the granddad.
There was a lot of bad 2nd hand information which did paint your son as worthy of a share of the fault, but from what you have said it sounds like this is not the case, whether it was his gun or not, it is not necessarily his responsibility to clear it on leaving the game zone. I borrowed someone's gun today, and embarrassingly I couldn't find the magazines release - so I waited in the game zone, if it played out the way it you've put it I can't see how your son could take any blame/responsibility, sure they're plenty of things even he could have done to avoid this, but not to the degree that it could be described as blameworthy* of the result.
*directly/or even partially responsible
Shoot me down if this is nosey, is the guy who pulled the trigger okay (psychologically), and was he protected by site insurance?
There was a lot of bad 2nd hand information which did paint your son as worthy of a share of the fault, but from what you have said it sounds like this is not the case, whether it was his gun or not, it is not necessarily his responsibility to clear it on leaving the game zone. I borrowed someone's gun today, and embarrassingly I couldn't find the magazines release - so I waited in the game zone, if it played out the way it you've put it I can't see how your son could take any blame/responsibility, sure they're plenty of things even he could have done to avoid this, but not to the degree that it could be described as blameworthy* of the result.
*directly/or even partially responsible
Shoot me down if this is nosey, is the guy who pulled the trigger okay (psychologically), and was he protected by site insurance?
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jcheeseright
Supporters
- Jun 14, 2012
- 4,280
- 2,261
As I said in an earlier post, there's no one cause for an accident like this.
Certainly in this case though your son is without blame, a loaded gun in the game area is 100% acceptable.
Glad to hear he's doing well.
Certainly in this case though your son is without blame, a loaded gun in the game area is 100% acceptable.
Glad to hear he's doing well.
Sitting Duck
Supporters
- May 11, 2014
- 4,894
- 1,735
If I was the one not complimentary or one of them then may I publicly apologize
As a father myself I like all of us on here was so shaken to the core that such a terrible accident took place
and if it was me that was unkind with some of my ramblings I'm so very sorry.....
I wish your son only but best wishes and the other kid in trying get on with their young lives
Laying blame will not change this terrible unfortunate matter as we all know
But hopefully this unfortunate matter may hopefully prevent or at least reduce the chance of this ever happening again
Hopefully other younger players will have learnt from this like the rest of us
But best wishes to your son and all your family and the other kid too
As a father myself I like all of us on here was so shaken to the core that such a terrible accident took place
and if it was me that was unkind with some of my ramblings I'm so very sorry.....
I wish your son only but best wishes and the other kid in trying get on with their young lives
Laying blame will not change this terrible unfortunate matter as we all know
But hopefully this unfortunate matter may hopefully prevent or at least reduce the chance of this ever happening again
Hopefully other younger players will have learnt from this like the rest of us
But best wishes to your son and all your family and the other kid too
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