Why aren't dual pane lenses the standard in airsoft?

[Lollingsgrad]

I used to paintball before I took up airsofting and I also snowboard. Both sports have their own range of goggles but something they have in common is that the industry has made dual pane lenses the standard. Only the cheapest of goggles will have single panes. Interestingly this doesn't seem to be the case in airsoft and you can in fact buy some pretty damned expensive goggles that sport single panes and might even have fans in it to compensate.

My understanding and experience has been that single panes fog and that's all there is to it. That said airsofters love their gear and it strikes me as unlikely that the outright superiority of dual pane has been missed and that maybe they just aren't the only solution to fog. Do you find it doesn't make that much difference? Or maybe good quality anti-fog is good enough?

For context I currently use a set of Dye i4s, they've been great but find them uncomfortable to use with the active hearing protection headset I bought. I was looking at a set of ESS V12s but am deeply skeptical of all the positive reviews given they're only single panes. Think they'd disappoint me?

 

[Druid799]

Mite be that ‘the look’ has as much bareing on your gear for a lot of players as much as the functionality of it . Your minimalist shooting glasses are much more in keeping with the look of the kit of a real soldier/PMC/HRT than big ‘safety’ goggles like you’d wear for dulux’ing or snowboarding? 

 

[Immortal]

For me; fogging is an occasional issue but most days it's sweat pouring down the lense so dual panes makes no difference in my case.

 

[Rogerborg]

Beats me.  Pyramex I-Force dual panes, or equivalent rebranding, should really be considered the entry level as far as I'm concerned.

Dual pane full seal goggles, where are they?  I had to DIY a dual pane on my fan goggles, and it works an absolute treat.

 

[Lollingsgrad]

Dual pane full seal goggles, where are they?  I had to DIY a dual pane on my fan goggles, and it works an absolute treat.

I bought my girlfriend a set of dual pane Bolle X1000s but they took some hunting to find.

I feel like I must be overvaluing dual panes because the really popular goggles are army surplus and those are singles. If they're good enough for the military I feel like they should be enough for me with my toy blow pipe and yet...

 

[Immortal]

Eye pro is the one area where what works for one person doesn't for the next. Your interest is dual panes, for others it is a full seal. Mine are quite open and are not sealed with single panes (Revision Sawflys).

I have tried dual panes but found the foam seal more of an issue than the glasses fogging (hybrid goggles glasses). The foam seal sponges up sweat and leaks down the panes. Also rubber sealed goggles just acted as a conduit for sweat.

So I opt for normal ballistic glasses and live with a slightly more risky eye pro not being sealed.

I reckon you'll end up trying a few different pairs to find one suitable pair. It's trial and error.

 

[Lozart]

Beats me.  Pyramex I-Force dual panes, or equivalent rebranding, should really be considered the entry level as far as I'm concerned.

Dual pane full seal goggles, where are they?  I had to DIY a dual pane on my fan goggles, and it works an absolute treat.

Revision do a thermal lens (ie dual pane) for their Desert Locust Goggles. If you want to go the whole hog you could get the Desert Locust fan goggles and fit the thermal lens.

 

[Shizbazki]

I have had:

1. Bolle X1000 single pane, paid a mint for it as it was supposed to be the best of the best but lo and behold it fogged
   
2. Revision Desert Locusts with dual pane and fan, imported from the States, guess what, it fogged
   
3. cheap ass ASG glasses, they fogged too but less ?
   
4. Dye i4 masks, they rarely fogged and even less so that i have installed a fan in them
   
5. Pyramex I-Force dual pane glasses, haven't had them fog yet
   

So far the Pyramex's haven't fogged but then again i only ever used them when i was sniping and ergo not moving much so not sweat my ass out and generating too much body heat.

My Dye i4s have been my go to, they do fog but only when placed under the harshest circumstances (high humidity, very differing temps etc), i have a magnet wiper to keep the fog away and also carry a small battery powered fan to force air through it too.

As for headsets, yeah i hear you, Dye i4s are a pain to wear with Comms so i jury rigged my own comms into the mask as an all in one. See this thread to get an idea of what i did:

 

[Rogerborg]

Pyramex I-Force dual pane glasses, haven't had them fog yet

To echo @Immortal's point, the feckers fog up for me when running around in CQB, even with anti-fog applied (Cat Crap, washing up liquid, Revision anti-fog wipes).  Despite that, I would recommend trying them as they nearly don't, but nearly is cold comfort once everything starts to go blurry.

For anyone tempted to try DIYing dual pane goggles, I'd say just go for it.  ~0.75mm PETG sheet (often sold for doll house windows), and some 2mm thick double sided foam tape.  Cut the PETG slightly smaller than the outer lens so that it fits neatly inside the frame, cut thin strips of the tape to form a continuous rim around the PETG, and stick them together.  It really is that easy and it's the only thing I've found that works for me without a fan.

 

[E21A]

I used to paintball before I took up airsofting and I also snowboard. Both sports have their own range of goggles but something they have in common is that the industry has made dual pane lenses the standard. Only the cheapest of goggles will have single panes. Interestingly this doesn't seem to be the case in airsoft and you can in fact buy some pretty damned expensive goggles that sport single panes and might even have fans in it to compensate.

My understanding and experience has been that single panes fog and that's all there is to it. That said airsofters love their gear and it strikes me as unlikely that the outright superiority of dual pane has been missed and that maybe they just aren't the only solution to fog. Do you find it doesn't make that much difference? Or maybe good quality anti-fog is good enough?

For context I currently use a set of Dye i4s, they've been great but find them uncomfortable to use with the active hearing protection headset I bought. I was looking at a set of ESS V12s but am deeply skeptical of all the positive reviews given they're only single panes. Think they'd disappoint me?

My experience of ESS V12’s has been brilliant. The amount of venting on them and a wipe over with a revision lense wipe at the start of the day keeps them fog free. 

 

[Lollingsgrad]

For anyone tempted to try DIYing dual pane goggles, I'd say just go for it.  ~0.75mm PETG sheet (often sold for doll house windows), and some 2mm thick double sided foam tape.  Cut the PETG slightly smaller than the outer lens so that it fits neatly inside the frame, cut thin strips of the tape to form a continuous rim around the PETG, and stick them together.  It really is that easy and it's the only thing I've found that works for me without a fan.

Very impressive work! I'd not have thought to try to DIY it, I assumed the lenses needed to have some antifog coating or something. You must've been getting pretty desperate to try it!

 

[Lollingsgrad]

As for headsets, yeah i hear you, Dye i4s are a pain to wear with Comms so i jury rigged my own comms into the mask as an all in one.

Again really impressive. My problem relates specifically to fitting hearing protection. They're really big cans, don't think this would work for it.

UNRELATED FORUM HELP REQUEST: Does anyone know how to remove/cut+paste images and forum post links in this forum when you're on a phone or tablet? :B

 

[Rogerborg]

I assumed the lenses needed to have some antifog coating or something. You must've been getting pretty desperate to try it!

Nope, just regular PETG.  The air gap is just to thermally insulate the inner layer.  Since I burned out the fan, I now give them a quick swipe with an anti-fog wipe, but they worked fine without it as well.

They were actually working well as single paned fan goggles (there may have been a coating on the standard lens). I just threw the dual layer in because I'm addicted to bodging.  Some of that doesn't pan out, this one did.

 

[djben9]

Revision do a thermal lens (ie dual pane) for their Desert Locust Goggles. If you want to go the whole hog you could get the Desert Locust fan goggles and fit the thermal lens.

I have said lens in my DL fan googles, it works, not perfect, still have similar issues to normal lens or when i use the V12s....i just stick to a single lens google, fan on, no  foam and some antifog....

like we always say, it may work for a few but wont for the next several  :lol:

 

[Skara]

Dual panes aren't the definitive solution to fogging, at least for me..

Today I had the chance to properly test my valken sierra goggles I bought last year (and literally never used) and holy moly they're bad!

Put them on, didn't have to wait more than 5 minutes for them to be completely fogged, and I wasn't even sweating since I was waiting for the others to get dressed up!!!

I'm kinda pissed because I paid quite a while (around €60 shipped from the UK)

I'm pretty sure the problem is ventilation, it has tiny holes on top and bottom but they're clearly not enough, I may drill some proper holes in the frame and rig up a fan.. If that doesn't work either I'll stick to glasses + some serious anti fog solution..

Double pane lenses may help, but you still need some dry, fresh air between your eyes and the lens..

 

[Rogerborg]

Fair point.  I removed the foam from around the frame of my goggles.  It's there to keep dust out, which isn't really our prime consideration.

 

[The Jackal]

Nope, just regular PETG.  The air gap is just to thermally insulate the inner layer.  Since I burned out the fan, I now give them a quick swipe with an anti-fog wipe, but they worked fine without it as well.

They were actually working well as single paned fan goggles (there may have been a coating on the standard lens). I just threw the dual layer in because I'm addicted to bodging.  Some of that doesn't pan out, this one did.

Good to see im not the only one who like to bodge things!!!! will give this a try as im switiching goggles. this will be a great project for me to try!! thanks for sharing this excellent knowledge!!