Why are systemas so much

team flex

team flex

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I can't get my head around the fact systemas are like 5 times the price of any other make but the fps / rpm doesn't justify the price. Am i missing something,like maybe they are all steel. If so, still doesn't justify the price in my opinion. Also, dont G&G have really good m4's that will supposedly never break and have metal gearboxes etc and £120 compared to a systema which is like £1200. Can someone explain? thanks...

 
team flex said:
? also something about PTW no idea what that is. Is it a make because they look expensive as well? http://www.fire-support.co.uk/category/systema-ptw-aeg/
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They have gearboxes that are much more advanced than normal gearboxes, they never miss a shot and have instant trigger responses. Plus they use interchangeable cylinders which means you can change the fps within seconds. They are 1:1 scale in terms of weight and detail.

They are advertised to be training weapons used the the military, so obviously, milspec is a selling point and an excuse to jack up the price by 5 million.

 
ohhh ok, that explains alot. thanks for the help

 
team flex said:
I can't get my head around the fact systemas are like 5 times the price of any other make but the fps / rpm doesn't justify the price. Am i missing something,like maybe they are all steel. If so, still doesn't justify the price in my opinion. Also, dont G&G have really good m4's that will supposedly never break and have metal gearboxes etc and £120 compared to a systema which is like £1200. Can someone explain? thanks...
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Good quality for the money does not = will never break.

G&G Combat machines are very good value for money, but they inevitably can and will eventually break. It's the same with any airsoft gun, the better quality ones may last longer / better accuracy / rof / etc etc but they will all break down at some point in time. Although some brands though expensive will disintegrate when you so much as look at them.

 
its because its a systema. But honestly once you play for a few years you will want to just buy the best gun out there, i chose a TM recoil over a systema, and i have spent well over what a systema is new on my recoil to get it how i want. But they are good but its the brand that makes them that expensive.

 
will never break?? tell that to their gearboxes!!

but yea, more precision, and the fact that some yankie special force uses them for training add to the price as well. ea. branding. like surefire or aimpoint for example.

generally, if you're prepared to upgrade you can get just as good a gun for less money, say with a G&P base.

 
Systema PTWs are expensive for two main reasons in my opinion-

Brand name & production cost.

Brand name- Because Systema. The yank speshul farces use it for training so that adds to the value. Systema used to dominate the aftermarket upgrade market (But no longer because it's overpriced and the price/quality factor is sh*t for most systema stuff) So their name is associated with quality (That has changed recently)

Production cost- The PTWs use planetary gearboxes. These are very complicated gearbox systems. Expensive so produce as they require good material quality and very good production quality. You can't just roughly sinter them like most AEG manufacturers do,they have to be molded then machined to specification. The PTW bodies are also forged and then machined. Forging and machining is very expensive in airsoft,due to the lower production volume and demand. Since Systemas are also real steel dimension ed they have to conform to some sort of standard however low it may be. And finally,Systemas are made in Nippon,where they actually pay their workers.

If you are prepared to upgrade you can turn any gun into a PTW killer. It's the real feel and dimensions you can't really get with an AEG that you can with a PTW.

 
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I heard they make you the bestest good player ever in the history of airsoft.

Personally a total waste of money. But that's my opinion.

 
Sam_G said:
I heard they make you the bestest good player ever in the history of airsoft.

Personally a total waste of money. But that's my opinion.
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I agree. Personally don't see why you should shell out so much money when you can buy something adequate for purpose for a fraction of the price.
 
Happy said:
I agree. Personally don't see why you should shell out so much money when you can buy something adequate for purpose for a fraction of the price.
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if that were the case though, we'd all be using G&G combat machines....

there's no argument that a properly modded systema PTW is BETTER than pretty much anything else going. Sure you can pour money into an AEG and getting it performing nearly as well as a PTW, but you'll never achieve the instant trigger response that a PTW has, certainly not without creating a 50RPS monster which is pretty pointless in itself.

That and the improved materials, real-spec grips and receivers... I can see why people buy them. I personally have invested heavily into the TM recoil platform and probably won't move away from it to a PTW unless a really really attractively priced package comes my way. I'm planning to upgrade my TM M4 to get as close as I can to PTW trigger response without outrageous ROF and it's looking like I'm going to need to sink ~£300 into what's already a £600 gun to get there. Another £300 and I could have bought a PTW.

 
Because for some people adequacy is not enough.

I've got 2/3 rifles worth systema money, that perform well without the foibles that come with the PTWs, but the urge is still there to get one.

Name is some of it, but the tolerances and materials are second to none.

 
jcheeseright said:
if that were the case though, we'd all be using G&G combat machines....

there's no argument that a properly modded systema PTW is BETTER than pretty much anything else going. Sure you can pour money into an AEG and getting it performing nearly as well as a PTW, but you'll never achieve the instant trigger response that a PTW has, certainly not without creating a 50RPS monster which is pretty pointless in itself.

That and the improved materials, real-spec grips and receivers... I can see why people buy them. I personally have invested heavily into the TM recoil platform and probably won't move away from it to a PTW unless a really really attractively priced package comes my way. I'm planning to upgrade my TM M4 to get as close as I can to PTW trigger response without outrageous ROF and it's looking like I'm going to need to sink ~£300 into what's already a £600 gun to get there. Another £300 and I could have bought a PTW.
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Actually- You can get AEGs with Trigger response equal to a Planetary gearbox with the right parts and tuning,and without having them as 50RPS Dual sector gear monsters.Here is one- SHS 13:1 gears and a Chaoli 32 TPA high torque motor. 30 RPS on an 11.1v lipo.Mind you,this is not some uber expensive build. Mainly SHS parts,chinese high torque motor,and some lonex parts.


Of course,the planetary gearbox has it's advantages and disadvantages over the traditional AEG,mainly being able to fit it into RS spec receivers properly. However,those things are expensive to machine and hard to test for QC hence another reason of PTW inflation.

I personally find PTWs very nice to hold but nowhere near as fun to use and shoot as a recoil shock. Don;t get me wrong,externally they feel very real and reek of quality,especially those with some real steel parts jammed on but they have a small fun factor and performance isn;t anything to rave about. I'd rather have a Marui recoil M4 that may be overly thick and disproportional compared to a PTW but it's much more fun to shoot.

 
jcheeseright said:
if that were the case though, we'd all be using G&G combat machines....

there's no argument that a properly modded systema PTW is BETTER than pretty much anything else going. Sure you can pour money into an AEG and getting it performing nearly as well as a PTW, but you'll never achieve the instant trigger response that a PTW has, certainly not without creating a 50RPS monster which is pretty pointless in itself.

That and the improved materials, real-spec grips and receivers... I can see why people buy them. I personally have invested heavily into the TM recoil platform and probably won't move away from it to a PTW unless a really really attractively priced package comes my way. I'm planning to upgrade my TM M4 to get as close as I can to PTW trigger response without outrageous ROF and it's looking like I'm going to need to sink ~£300 into what's already a £600 gun to get there. Another £300 and I could have bought a PTW.
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Like I said, I personally wouldn't have one when there's cheaper items that do the job I need them to. Can see why some people would buy them though.
 
Unrustle_Thine_Jimmies said:
Actually- You can get AEGs with Trigger response equal to a Planetary gearbox with the right parts and tuning,and without having them as 50RPS Dual sector gear monsters.Here is one- SHS 13:1 gears and a Chaoli 32 TPA high torque motor. 30 RPS on an 11.1v lipo.Mind you,this is not some uber expensive build. Mainly SHS parts,chinese high torque motor,and some lonex parts.

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That's clearly still not as quick as a Systema though. when I say the response on a PTW is instant it's because I mean it, I don't mean 'fast' I mean instant. Like real gun instant, the time it takes for a sear to break and a hammer to swing forward instant.

Whether you'd notice the difference while playing... that's by the by, like I said, you can get close but you'll never quite get there with an AEG gearbox without clever pre-cocking mosfets and even then it'll still be a couple of milliseconds slower than a PTW.

 
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I've owned a G&G and personally i found it as useful as a trapdoor on a life boat, quite frankly it was poor, a few guns later i gave in to the pressure and bought a PTW and it is something else the thing feels solid as anything it is constructed amazingly and to shoot it is just something else its like nothing i've ever owned, i would never have anything else.

The biggest gripe most people seem to have with them is the motors but to be honest ive had mine for 2 years and im still on the factory one and it performs excellently

 
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