What have you just 3d printed (for airsoft)

[Lyndication]

It's kind of irrelevant given that "yeah I play Airsoft and this is an Airsoft gun" is a legal defence.

 

[BigAl]

Had this discussion on Reddit. Surely that is still manufacturing if you are dismantling a RIF and reassembling it as a different RIF?

No your not creating a RIF, it already was a RIF.

 

[Tommikka]

The VCRA section 36.1 and 36.2 cover:


36. Manufacture, import and sale of realistic imitation firearms


(1)A person is guilty of an offence if—

(a)he manufactures a realistic imitation firearm;

(b)he modifies an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm;

(c)he sells a realistic imitation firearm; or

(d)he brings a realistic imitation firearm into Great Britain or causes one to be brought into Great Britain.

36.2 Subsection (1) has effect subject to the defences in section 37.

36.1a is about the manufacture - if 3D printing parts to modify then 36.1a does not apply.  If making a new RIF then 36.1a does apply

36.1b is about modifying an IF into a RIF, therefore if it already is a RIF then 36.1b does not apply 

36.2 highlights that there are defences to all parts of 36.1.  I’m not bothering to quote the defences, but the core VCRA defences plus the additional statutory instrument airsoft skirmisher defence apply to all parts of 36.1 - manufacture, modification, sale, import 

For 36.1c the seller is liable, so a good seller will want some form of documented defence, and for 36.1d the courier/customs want to be convinced by a documented defence 

For 36.1b and 36.1d the individual acting may be the ultimate user or may be doing so on behalf of the ultimate user.  If the latter they may need to think about some documentation.   (Eg if you submit 3D files to a 3D printing service provider - though they may have no idea about the VCRA)

If you are the individual manufacturing / modifying then it’s all down to you ….. 

….. when we look at what the defences are (I still can’t be bothered to copy/paste to quote them) - the airsoft skirmisher defence does not state the original 2006 proposal nor the UKARA 3 game requirement.

If you manufacture a RIF or modify an IF into a RIF for the purpose of being a chav, then you’re committing a VCRA offence, if you intend to play the game of airsoft skirmishing on an insured site then that intent is your defence and you know whether or not that is your intent

Don’t be a dick after manufacturing / modifying and you won’t have to prove your intent in court 

Though of course - if you are modifying a RIF into a RIF then there is no offence 

**** Note that in early drafts the modification of an IF into a RIF was a separate offence excluded from the defences, but the paragraph was moved / wording was changed and the defences are valid

 

[BigStew]

It's all academic until a case is bought to trial. issue is as far as i can tell manufacturing is not clearly defined and the term modifies is only used in terms of turning an IF to RIF.

So two scenarios

1) A person with out a defense buys all the parts necessary to make a function RIF and assembles it they are guilt of manufacturing a RIF.

2) A person without a defense is gifted a RIF or hasn't played for years replaces every part in the gun other than the Gearbox case, spring guide and rear sight with non like for like parts so what was  once an MP5 is now a G3. yes that is modification i would say that's also manufacturing  and I bet a prosecutor could make a convincing argument in that favor. 

I know that's a extreme argument but even converting an M4A1 to and M16A2 means replacing over 60% of the external parts. the argument is manufacturing and modification are different things but they aren't clearly defined terms in the VRCA. Either way unless they have a nice paper trail of purchases are catching you in the act they can't prove anything illegal was done.

 

[Lyndication]

I think you'd really struggle to find a copper who gave a shit about it if you stopped them on the street and told them tbh.

 

[BigStew]

I think you'd really struggle to find a copper who gave a shit about it if you stopped them on the street and told them tbh.

Agreed, but we just need a few more Cosplayers wave RIFs in public and they might start paying attention. 

 

[Tackle]

Agreed, but we just need a few more Cosplayers wave RIFs in public and they might start paying attention. 

Hence why we're not longer gonna allow "my just-cos defence" etc threads, they can feck off to a cosplay forum/page or whatever, any association with them just puts airsoft at risk.

Any crime in general that involves rifs, even if its a space age 3d printed jobby that has no real steel equivalent brings unwanted attention to the game.

Worst case, some wannabe jihadi wants to martyr himself, & does it while carrying an airsoft rif, then the will really hit the fan, we'd be lucky to get away with licensed two-tones

Let's get the thread back on topic

 

[Tommikka]

Agreed, but we just need a few more Cosplayers wave RIFs in public and they might start paying attention. 

Apologies to @tackle

The police often do deal with RIFs in public, the cosplayer jumped on by a group of police in London last month for example 

They get dealt with in a suitable manner - often including ‘strong words of advice’ but including enforcement of the law.

This community among others helps a lot by condemning inappropriate use, and when backing up suitable activity (such as on topic for 3D printing RIF parts - as to good intent on playing airsoft or bad intent on bypassing non airsofters problem with buying RIFs)

Don’t get too worried about “they will come after us due to idiots”, do be aware of the possibility, but if we are a good community who think of protecting our hobbies then we look like the responsible good guys

 

[Tackle]

Apologies to @tackle

The police often do deal with RIFs in public, the cosplayer jumped on by a group of police in London last month for example 

They get dealt with in a suitable manner - often including ‘strong words of advice’ but including enforcement of the law.

This community among others helps a lot by condemning inappropriate use, and when backing up suitable activity (such as on topic for 3D printing RIF parts - as to good intent on playing airsoft or bad intent on bypassing non airsofters problem with buying RIFs)

Don’t get too worried about “they will come after us due to idiots”, do be aware of the possibility, but if we are a good community who think of protecting our hobbies then we look like the responsible good guys

No apology necessary, I think as a forum, 99% of the membership are aware of the inherent risks (& responsibilities) associated with rif ownership, but cosplayers, they take walting to a whole new level, usually have absolutely no interest in what we do, or the time & money many of us have invested in the game, so entertaining their interest in easily  obtaining rifs is a big red flag for me.

While ive often said said vcra is a crock of , but it's the only one we've got, & if any government ever amends it, itll only get worse, not better.

 

[Lyndication]

I think an important distinction is that no-one is getting severely injured or killed by RIFs. That was the impetus behind the "Zombie Knife" ban, for example. 

At worst you'll get idiots getting jumped in public by police who have to treat them as real, but it's not often enough that anyone really gives a shit. Like genuinely, talk to people outside this hobby and they barely know that RIFs exist. 

 

[Tackle]

I think an important distinction is that no-one is getting severely injured or killed by RIFs. That was the impetus behind the "Zombie Knife" ban, for example. 

At worst you'll get idiots getting jumped in public by police who have to treat them as real, but it's not often enough that anyone really gives a shit. Like genuinely, talk to people outside this hobby and they barely know that RIFs exist. 

All it takes is a miscommunicated message, incorrect information, or a jumpy firearms officer making the wrong split second decision, which results in someone dead on the floor clutching an airsoft rif & its a massive long term inquiry, which is guaranteed to end with further restrictions on buying, owning, or using airsoft rifs.

How severe they are depends on the incident & the in-situ government, & its not a question of if, rather than when, unfortunately.

 

[Lyndication]

I mean, firearms officers are few and far between. UK police have a much, much lower rate of armed officers than most anywhere else in the world.

Someone getting shot for having a RIF just doesn't seem likely to lead to banning RIFs IMO. I get that it's the collective bogeyman of the UK Airsoft scene because the government is thick as mince regardless of leader or party, but still.

 

[Tackle]

A mate of mine has just retired from the Met, he's served in every aspect of their firearms units for over a decade, loved the job, but disheartened by the system, when they charged one of his colleagues with murder, for just doing his job, he nearly handed in his "ticket" along with many others, only thing that stopped him was his impending pension review.

But a lot did quit, & previous applicants that didnt quite make the grade were then reconsidered for fast tracked recruitment to the units, in order to fill the considerable gaps.

With that in mind, I don't think we can say that accidents won't happen, or mistakes be made, a very recent possible was the synagogue attack just a week ago, one of those killed & one of the injured was as a result of police rounds, we've yet to hear the finer details, that probably won't be made public for at least 6 months while every aspect is investigated, the officers involved will downgraded in their duties, & eventually recommendations may be made to prevent a reoccurrence in the future.

My point is, the system takes it very seriously, so much so that should airsoft rifs figure in a police related shooting, the powers that be will have no hesitation in recommending changes in rif ownership, after all we're just a bunch of silly buggers dressing up, & running around playing silly buggers, its highly unlikely that anyone in power will consider that our right to play realistic looking silly buggers will outweigh the need for future public safety or police procedures.

Hence why we've got to be on top of our game, so to speak, & enabling anyone, especially non airsofters to cut corners when it comes to rif ownership, is a massive no no.

If its true, im disappointed that firesupport is accepting cosplay as a defence, they should know better, but money is money in these difficult times i guess ?.

 

[BigStew]

Back on track! 1st part printed for my China Lake pump action grenade launcher. 

View attachment 155548

 

[Neptune]

Back on track! 1st part printed for my China Lake pump action grenade launcher. 

Those caps in the background are a blast from the past.

 

[BigStew]

Those caps in the background are a blast from the past.

I have impact grenades that use them.

 

[MrTea]

I have impact grenades that use them.

FulcrumAirsoft designs a few different 3D printed grenades that use them. I have use them in his "comet" projectile design.

 

[BigStew]

FulcrumAirsoft designs a few different 3D printed grenades that use them. I have use them in his "comet" projectile design.

I have a pair of Meteor Lite.

 

[mightyjebus]

Back on track! 1st part printed for my China Lake pump action grenade launcher. 

Thanks for reminding me I need to finish my one!

 

[BigStew]

Thanks for reminding me I need to finish my one!

How you getting on? i am considering using Alu tubing for barrel and magazine.