Weight and range in a rifle

[sonofsammo]

I realise that there are a wide number of variables, but what would be the best way to get the lightest rif with the best accurate range (that's not a sniper).
Out of my current rifs, in terms of range with furthest first:
TM MWS
Nuprol Delta
ARP-9
Unfortunately, my MWS is too heavy for me to carry at the moment - not just the RIF, but the mags as well.
I thought getting the ARP would be a good idea, but although it has an excellent RoF, it just doesn't have the range for the sites I'm at - I'm being outranged, rather than outplayed.
Which drives me nuts. 
Any help would be most welcome.
TIA
? 
 

 

[Gepard]

Don't put anything on the externals? It does add up sticking red dots, scopes, grips, lasers, etc onto your gun. You'd be hard pressed to get any of those much lighter than they are stock.

I suppose you can always switch out the metal body / handguard if you have any for plastic (providing you've got compatibility).

As for improving performance? I imagine you could upgrade it and reduce weight at the same time but that's not my area. I've heard a new piston is a good investment for the ARP, though.

You could always lift weights.. 

 

[L3wisD]

Try a better barrel and hop up in your ARP first.

If you like the light weight and the rest of it, just get to fixing what's letting it down inside.

With the right bits and bobs and trial and error you'll reach out just as far.

 

[sonofsammo]

Don't put anything on the externals? It does add up sticking red dots, scopes, grips, lasers, etc onto your gun. 
The ARP9 and Nuprol are completely stock.

 I've heard a new piston is a good investment for the ARP, though.

Cheers - I'll have to have a look into this.

You could always lift weights.. 
Sadly, that won't help at all ?

Click to shrink...

View attachment 34449

 

[Guest]

I vote for Maple Leaf hop rubber and nub, I just put one of each (along with a spare barrel) in a TM G36 I have, it needs modifying as it slightly over hops, but range has doubled to about 40m (the nub was completely missing originally lol)

 

[Iceni]

Whats the FPS on 0.2's with the arp9.

If it's getting 330-350fps then there is no need to touch the gearbox. Since you won't be correcting anything.

Inner barrel might add a little to the accuracy but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. The real problem is the inner barrel length and the hop.

130mm inner barrel length is very short, but you can modify that for cheap.

Buy the longest suppressor you can find and match an inner barrel to it. You should be able to find a 200mm part to fit the ris on your gun. And with that you can add 130+200(-10) so it doesn't poke out the end, 320mm inner barrel.


For the hop you can flat hop with a maple leaf, or run the omega nub with the maple leaf.

AK2M4 have cheap maple leaf hop rubbers if he has stock.

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/hopups-rubbers

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/hopups-rubbers/maple-leaf-macaron-50-aeg

 

[proffrink]

Inner barrel length doesn't matter much in airsoft (for accuracy at least). The barrel finish is far more important along with the hop unit and seal between the bucking and barrel for consistent shooting.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Came in here expecting this to be a bb weight vs range discussion lol.

The externals dont really do anything, so any weight you can save there wont really affect performance (well, it might make it a bit easier broke). Its not like a real gun where you need heavy components to contain the firing pressure.

As others have said its the internals are the main focus area to improve performance, i'd start with making sure your fps is as close to whatever your limit is as possible and as consistent as possible, then its just a case of getting the right barrel and hop that works for you.

An alternate strategy, if its your left arm is the problem for weight, would be perhaps to look at a p90? It wont have a total weight any less than what you have but the balance is more to the rear so your left hand wont feel the weight as much.

 

[Prisce]

Or just get a Mk23 with @rocketdogbert‘s remote drum mag. Solves all problems very quickly and easily!

 

[Iceni]

Inner barrel length doesn't matter much in airsoft (for accuracy at least)

Click to shrink...

He's after range not accuracy.

Very short barrels like the 130mm to my understanding don't allow a BB to fully develop it's backspin, It could be bollocks but the sniper forum seems pretty adamant on the issue.

 

[proffrink]

Hm, not heard that one before but doesn't sound immediately bullshit to me so time to do some reading I suppose.

Anecdotally I've never had issues with consistently lifting .30g BBs even on <180mm barrels.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Hm, not heard that one before but doesn't sound immediately bullshit to me so time to do some reading I suppose.

Anecdotally I've never had issues with consistently lifting .30g BBs even on <180mm barrels.

Click to shrink...

It doesnt seem right to me- the hop is what gives the backspin, from then on its not being accellerated.

And as far as i can see logically the bb if it was going to contact the barrel it'd contact the bottom not the top as the air direction is reversed from the bb's perspective (because of the blast pushing from the back rather than drag from the front) so the magnus lift would pull it down.

However that said, my most accurate and long ranged gun does also have the longest barrel, so maybe theres something i'm not thinking of.

 

[Sitting Duck]

Numerous factors etc.....

bucking & nub along with max possible fps are the foundations of range

the quality of bucking, the material & its shore value for starters

The nub & its shape determine the contact shape & duration contacting with bb producing backspin

The power/joules/fps or whatever also helps but TM's shoot 300fps and are very effective

Before you steam into ANYTHING experiment and check stuff first

experiment with DECENT bb's and a few weights in current setup

Some stock setups will not lift more than 0.25

you reach a point where the more hop you apply the more it misfeeds/jams on some setups

hence it struggles to lift .28/.30's - now depending on range 0.25 might suffice or might not

your barrel could be crapped up - clean it a few times with a dry piece of tissue

the nub sitting in the hop could be lopsided, needing just a light twist to center up

G&G green buckings are normally pretty damn decent for stock units

so it is likely it is a bit w@nkly assembled or dirty barrel (or something daft)

Hopefully 330fps is fine to shoot with and quite straight - though the G&G stock barrels are not brill

Above all else - quality of BB's matter - $hit bb's still shoot $hit even in a R-hop'd prommy

So like weight experiment with DECENT G&G or Blasters say 0.25 as well as 0.20's perhaps

0.25's would be best but your hop/gun might simply produce near same results on 0.20's

the 0.25's should be more accurate at range but you might have an issue lifting heavier bb's

PS - I presume you fully understand how to dial in your hop correctly though some it takes a while to grasp

Longer barrels help stabilise the flight a bit, though we say that longer barrels do not mean longer flight & accuracy

True groupings on say titchy MP5k's are never really great, but there are a few titchy guns that can be accurate

Though this is maybe down to a mix of precision assembly and most likely a fair bit of luck I feel

Longer barrels can have more imperfections if not lapped n $hit so it can defeat the accuracy objective if $hit

I'd be inclined to run through some basic checks/tests and experiment a little with your bb's first

dialing in settings to hop very finely (after you cleaned and checked the hop/bucking/nub is centered)

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

He's after range not accuracy.

Very short barrels like the 130mm to my understanding don't allow a BB to fully develop it's backspin, It could be bollocks but the sniper forum seems pretty adamant on the issue.

Click to shrink...

Sniper forums are adamant on lots of things that are bullshit.

Look up the Bernoulli effect.

 

[sonofsammo]

Stuck on phone to respond, so apologies if I'm muddled.

I'm after accurate range, rather than just range for the sake of it. 

I want to hit people before they hit me. Or at the very least stand a fighting chance. 

Chrono is at 294 with Geoff's .28s.

Running 11.1 lipo.

Everything else standard.

How easy is it to change internal stuff?

I don't think there's anything I can take off externally.

A better stock would probably help take the weight off my left hand.

Any new rifs that might fit the bill instead? 

The other reason I want the distance is because getting shot on my arm hurts 10000000 times more than usual!!

 

[proffrink]

If keeping your existing gun:

You'll get accuracy from a consistent hop and good barrel surface that doesn't interrupt the BB. Basically you'll want to swap the barrel for something like PDI if you want the absolute best, but there are many options out there. You'll also likely want to flat hop for anything beyond a .30, but .28s you'll probably be fine with your stock hop unit.

There's loads out there on this already though. Use the search and look for stuff about tuning the hop unit and aftermarket barrels. There're a ton of guides on this too so pretty hard to cock anything up if you're not disassembling the gearbox (which you're not).

Also you're fine with 294ft/s with .28s so long as your site has a limit of 350ft/s on a .20g BB.

View attachment 34194

 

[Wo1f]

Barrel length has no bearing on range or accuracy. The single largest factor in range and accuracy is the hop up. For example..

mk23 310fps on a .2 BB. 150mm crazy jet barrel and maple leaf decepticon 50 bucking. Max range using .36-.4 is 75M (range finder confirmed. Not airsoft meters)

TM MP7 347fps on .20BB. Standard barrel (145mm?) TNT T hop bucking. Max range using .32-.36 is 70M. Almost a guaranteed hit at 60m. 

For an AEG running 350 FPS, a maple leaf 60 degree bucking and omega nub is the single most effective modification you can make to a gun. And for £15ish, you’d be mad not to.

barrel quality is important, but most manufacturers now have good inner barrels. An aftermarket one may see a marginal improvement, but the wind will have more effect on accuracy at range than even the best barrel. 

Geoffs BB’s are very good. I swear by them. .28’s seem to work best on AEG’s. On gas guns, heavier is better, but on an AEG with a fixed cylinder volume your energy can drop dramatically, which isn’t good for range or accuracy. 

 

[Druid799]

I take it with your seriously borked arm you can’t do tech work so would have to pay someone to do it for you ? So to save the additional cost of upgrading , I’d say best option would be get a totally stock TM of sum sort and run it on .25’s ,  think it’s safe to say there universally recognised as the best hop’ed guns going and when you come down to it I’m a great believer in hop trumps everything else .