Waco’s guide to field sustainment

[The Waco Kid]

Modular system:

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1) Single PLCE side pocket with “survival” / day hike kit

2) Second PLCE side pocket with light weight insulation and bivi. Ground mat on outside.

3) The bug out bag. 60L bergen will hold all the above, wet weather layer, three season bag, 3 days food and 2-3L of water. More than enough for DoE of trip. Side pockets bump it to 80L and is enough capacity to cope with UK winter overnighting in the Cairngorms.

4) Fucking big bag. 120L this will hold two full sets of artic sleeping gear. Or one set and mortar rounds. If you need to carry all your skirmish kit in it plus camping gear. It will probably still have space.

The bags above are the 60L  Dutch Issue Sting and the 120L Saracen. They were both designed by Lowe Alpine and also made by Fesca.
 

The ones above are the “Gen 2” with molle panels and and MMPS so they will take PLCE rocket pockets the right way up. Both models have adjustable back systems and are very robust. They are some of the best carrying military packs ever made and can be picked very cheaply.

The Lowe Apline CFP-90 is also excellent but the shoulder suspension is a bit prone to breaking. It’s also quite pricey this side of the pond.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Another excellent addition to this guide.

However I'd like to just make one little caveat. Try to avoid using camouflage kit for DofE or hiking in general. Yes you loose the tacticool look but if things go tits up then it'll be far easier for mountain rescue teams to find you if your rucksack (and other kit/clothing) is a bright colour

 

[The_Lord_Poncho]

I keep looking at some sites that are just out of Sunday (public transport) reach and figure an organised/sneaky camp on/near site would open up options for me so,what do you good people actually use?

Just take care - if you are discovered by an irate land owner, bet an Ikea bag full of RIFs could be viewed as a bit of an aggravating factor!

4) Fucking big bag. 120L this will hold two full sets of artic sleeping gear. Or one set and mortar rounds. If you need to carry all your skirmish kit in it plus camping gear. It will probably still have space.

The bags above are the 60L  Dutch Issue Sting and the 120L Saracen. They were both designed by Lowe Alpine and also made by Fesca.

I used an ex-dutch issue Fesca made 120l Saracen in the forces for many years, it served me amazingly well, and always grossly overloaded. Despite years of abuse and rough handling, it looks like it did the day I bought it (second hand).

 

[Jaylordofwaargh]

Just take care - if you are discovered by an irate land owner, bet an Ikea bag full of RIFs could be viewed as a bit of an aggravating factor!

You know it! Nah would mostly be asking sites if they are cool with it or doing the super sneaky late pitch. 

So perhaps you want to use your kit for a bit more than just airsofting or you are taking part in cadet training or DoE. 

Nothing like that, just a spot of occasional wild camping to do max two nights on the trot, predominantly to go airsofting at non local sites. 

Do you have an under quilt on your hammock?

No, just the (green) microfiber towel, it works and it's light/small enough. 

 

[The Waco Kid]

Another excellent addition to this guide.

However I'd like to just make one little caveat. Try to avoid using camouflage kit for DofE or hiking in general. Yes you loose the tacticool look but if things go tits up then it'll be far easier for mountain rescue teams to find you if your rucksack (and other kit/clothing) is a bright colour

It’s okay we got you covered. ??

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[gavinkempsell]

Yeah, but it's not got any molle.

 

[The Waco Kid]

Better?

View attachment 131928View attachment 131930

 

[gavinkempsell]

Much.

 

[Jaylordofwaargh]

OK so, that patch and ones like it, a man needs a sauce

 

[Cannonfodder]

Better add some glitter to be extra safe

 

[The Waco Kid]

OK so, that patch and ones like it, a man needs a sauce

He is the “I don’t fucking care bear”. Amazon seem to be out…..

 

[Cannonfodder]

man needs a sauce

Depending on what it's going on I recommend either brown or chilli mayo

 

[gavinkempsell]

This seems to be the best place to ask, so... apart from the countries that adopted alice field gear, is the USA the only country that prefers modern rucksacks/backpacks etc to have external frames?

 

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

This seems to be the best place to ask, so... apart from the countries that adopted alice field gear, is the USA the only country that prefers modern rucksacks/backpacks etc to have external frames?

The Swedish LK35 has an external frame and comes with a Molle waistbelt, all in 1000D so pretty modern I'd guess.

 

[The Waco Kid]

This seems to be the best place to ask, so... apart from the countries that adopted alice field gear, is the USA the only country that prefers modern rucksacks/backpacks etc to have external frames?

Largely yes. Some of the biggest influences post WW2, Cold War and upto GWOT was the amount of kit the US punted out in assistance. Alice kit was really wide spread.

I think in the 1990’s there was a lot of influence from makers like Lowe Alpine bringing in modern mountaineer style packs. * The Eagle 3 day pack and CFP90 are pretty much copies of civilian items for example. US SF liked this sort of kit but not so popular with regular, pretty conservative, procurement which went with the molle 1 pack for fuck sake. ?

Europe had quite a few manufacturers and pretty much went their one way.

* Bearing in mind WW2 bergens we’re civilian pack copies and some of the uniform designs were taken from recreational ski and mountain wear. So the cycle continues.

 

[The Waco Kid]

Important pack features:

or

“Things that affect how your ruck takes load. And no I am not talking about your mother”.

 Buying surplus in general grades such as 1,2 and super are often quoted. Prices roughly reflecting west and tear.

• “Super” should be like new.

• ”1” Used but complete, probably marked and might have non-critical wear.

• “2” Heavily worn. I’d expect to have to do some sewing or replace fittings.

  Unfortunately these definitions are somewhat  loose and I have bought super/a+ grade kit that needed repair and grade 2 was fine.

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  When you get a bigger pack, apart from capacity, the pack itself may be sized or have an adjustable back length. So check it’s the right size. 
  If you can try it with some load in it too.

Features that affect carrying the load and comfort are:

• Bag shape

• Back support/frame

• Shoulder straps & adjustment

• Shoulder lifter straps

• Waist belt padding

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1) Bag shape.

Short wide packs often put the weight further back from your centre of gravity unless carefully loaded. Example US Alice.
 

Tall narrow packs can be better in the hills but snag overhead and if you go prone can ride up making shooting/watching awkward. Most modern packs have gone this way. Example Berghaus Vulcan.

2) Pack frame. A big bag needs some kind of structure to support the load others it flips about all over the place. I think Internal vs external frame design largely moot, go with what works for you.

External frames keep the pack away from your back but the frame can make “hot spots” more common. Example US MOLLE2.

Internal frames use a bit of back padding (sweaty back time) or a spacer (airflow back) so the load isn’t poking on your spine. Karrimor SF Predator.

3) Shoulder straps are obvious need some adjustment. I have had a few bags where the adjustment was very limited so once you had layers on getting the packing and off was PITA!

  Some packs, typically external frame ones, have removable straps. Sometimes after market upgrades are available such as for ALICE & MOLLE packs. 
 On some Bergen’s you can switch where the shoulder straps fit, handy if you have a far neck.

 
 Sternum straps allow you to pull the shoulder straps in a bit for stability and to relieve the straps pulling your shoulders back.

4) Load lifter straps are adjusters on the top of shoulder straps that you tension to “lift” the load, really they are pulling the weight closer to your centre of gravity. See how to pack a Bergen below.

  Useless on packs with no frame and waist support.

5) Waist/hip belts should be the main support for the load. Padding is nice but too much can be a problem as much as too little. Some very well engineered and custom packs use unpadded belts that are sewn to clinch on the wearers hips. I’m looking at you Kifaru!

  Most belts have an adjustable side release similar buckle. Quite often there are tensioners on either side as well.

 

[The Waco Kid]

Setting up and loading a pack:

I am doing this back to front as adjusting your pack is best done with some weight in it.

Pack adjustment:

1) Start with the straps pretty loose.

2) put the pack on and get the belt so it sits on and around your hips. This is where to much padding can be awkward. Fasten and adjust the buckle to it’s snug. Tighten up any side adjusters, might be as many as four, so they are also snug.

3) Pull the shoulders straps until

the load comes into you back and is stable. Do up any sternum strap. You do not want it so tight is restrict your breathing.

4) Tension the load lifter straps. You don’t need to pull them as tight as possible as this will shorten the shoulder straps on most designs. Just so the load comes in and a stable, you should still be able to look up.

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Although however you set up your pack you are not beating the little old lady from the mountain village.

Plus she can drink her own weight in diesel and still walk home.

 

[The Waco Kid]

Some ways to load a pack:

Method 1 is heavy items at the top and close to your back. This is recommended for effective weight distribution.

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From top to bottom every thing is stacked heaviest to lightest.

• Water

• Day sack with stove and sundries under the lid

• Sleeping bag in rubble sack

• Water proofs, ECWCS is heavy!

• Shelter

• Clothing

• Food

• Wash kit

• Thin ground sheet

• Spare light weight foot wear

• kit mat down the inside the bag, away from the body.

If the day sack isn’t carried the individual items would be further down the list. 
 

 

[Davet]

View attachment 132622View attachment 132623but don’t carry too much…!

 

[Tommikka]

View attachment 132622View attachment 132623but don’t carry too much…!

Project Payne

Spot the difference between Fusiler Payne liberating Europe vs a day or weekend playing in the woods

https://www.slideshare.net/slideshow/uk-combat-load/78701547

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