US - Airsoft under threat?

You do realise that law abiding citizens carrying guns isn't the deterrent you think it is. Infact it's going to make the criminal more likely to carry and use a gun in crimes
That’s like saying nations would never develop any new weapons if their enemies didn’t. Example: Cold War. Guns are easy to use—a death threat in the palm of your hand. If a criminal has access to a handgun, why on earth would he not use it? (Noise of the gunshot is one reason I came up with, but that’s dependent on scenario)

 
I don’t think any of y’all Brits need to be getting angry over a discussion about American legislature for any reason… if anything I should be the angry one. ?

…no point to having this discussion if it’s just going to make people go nuts…
By that "logic", I don't think you should be assuming it's only Brits responding ? ... and you're the one who effectively brought gun control / 2A into an airsoft discussion... Can't do a thing like that then cry when people respond to it ?

 
By that "logic", I don't think you should be assuming it's only Brits responding ? ... and you're the one who effectively brought gun control / 2A into an airsoft discussion... Can't do a thing like that then cry when people respond to it ?
I’m not upset in the slightest. I was simply attempting to lighten the mood—these discussions can make people angry, sometimes understandably, and when everyone’s angry, the discussion becomes pointless. We can have a good discussion with point and counterpoint, or we can have folks getting mad at each other and getting nowhere.

Tackle mentioned the American firearm situation first.

Skullchewer has the right idea. He’s clearly the smartest one here.

 
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Why is that?

*unsure whether he should immediately start dissing South Africa or not…*




I'd be interested to see a non developing country with a higher violent crime death rate per capita with stricter gun control laws.

There's an interesting interactive world map here:  https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/murder-rate-by-country  Certainly taught me a few things. 

I watch a lot of "lawTube" and America does get some things right....  But gun culture, education and health it certainly does not.  This case about ChatGPT  is fecking hilarious to listen to (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/08/nyregion/lawyer-chatgpt-sanctions.html).  I say this having just signed my son up to an international school that uses the University of Nebraska High School curriculum. 

Your participation in a UK forum is admirable in that you are apparently interested in the happenings outside your nation's borders.  Next you'll be telling us you own a passport ?.  I've certainly enjoyed reading your contributions and linked pages.

One of the reasons I enjoy this hobby is because I like the aesthetic and feel of guns... don't want a real one though - is that strange?  I just go to my dad's house/land and use his shotguns for clays and vermin.

and we're on a forum for big kids.


big kids with grown up money ..... very dangerous combination ?  especially on a Friday night when booze is involved.

 
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I'd be interested to see a non developing country with a higher violent crime death rate per capita with stricter gun control   
Honduras has a terrible murder rate and zero legal civilian gun ownership.  

Anyhow, whatever we discuss, be it cars, drugs, guns, or anything else; the simplist thing is that responsible nonviolent people pose no problem with them.  I don't dick about with my controlled meds, wave rifs around where unsuitable or drive pissed.  Same for the rest of us on here I'm sure. 

We collectively, through govts, regulate things because socialy regulating ourselves is impossible whilst the instrumental logic of our social relations and the resulting adherence to functionalism trumps the objective study of actual material conditions.  Alienation is the result. Alienated people act in alienated ways.

How it seems around the campfire two scotchs in anyhow.  It also strikes me that concern with producing socialy healthy citizens is at least 2400 years old and we're not there yet by some measure.   Not sure we'll solve it in this thread anyhow.  

'Behave in a socialy responsible way, chin the cunts that don't.'   Ghandi 

 
That’s like saying nations would never develop any new weapons if their enemies didn’t. Example: Cold War. Guns are easy to use—a death threat in the palm of your hand. If a criminal has access to a handgun, why on earth would he not use it? (Noise of the gunshot is one reason I came up with, but that’s dependent on scenario)
The cold war is a very bad example of the point you're trying (and failing) to make. Both sides were in an arms race as they both considered the other side to be wanting to wipe them out.

As for your question about why wouldn't they use it, why would they go through the extra hassle of getting a gun when a knife can be bought for a fraction of the price and will have the same effect on the victim, whether that's making them comply or putting a hole in them

 
You do realise that law abiding citizens carrying guns isn't the deterrent you think it is. Infact it's going to make the criminal more likely to carry and use a gun in crimes


That's certainly a thing that's possible to speculate and assert. However, is there an example we could examine, where a high rate of legally held and carried firearms is correlated with a high rate of illegally used firearms?

 
Would we be classing them as a developed nation though?  I get what you mean though and if things were as simple as some of our posts here make out, life on earth would be much better than it is.
Not sure to be honest,  although I imagine that the petro industry qualifies it.  

I know that South Africa is the only 'first world ' nation in Africa.  In 2019 I think that I remember that about 10% more people died from criminality in SA  than died from the Syrian civil war.  22k v 20k.  Worth checking anyhow. 

It's a very open question. 

 
Not sure to be honest,  although I imagine that the petro industry qualifies it.  

I know that South Africa is the only 'first world ' nation in Africa.  In 2019 I think that I remember that about 10% more people died from criminality in SA  than died from the Syrian civil war.  22k v 20k.  Worth checking anyhow. 

It's a very open question. 
I did some quite extensive data analysis on South African crime rates a few years ago as part of a wider research project into violent crime in South Africa

Generally accepted reasons for the high violent crime rates include:
A failed policing criminal justice system that is under equipped, ineffective, inefficient, highly politicised and corrupt.
Massively unequal wealth distribution.
Zero prospects for advancement for a large percentage of the population.
Disadvantaged young people being drawn into violent crime through a normalisation of violence, the growth of violent subcultures, poor parenting, poverty etc.
Brutalisation of young people growing up in poverty, resulting in the above mentioned normalisation of violence.
Large numbers of guns being readily available, often having been sold to gangs by police officers on an almost industrial scale; for example, Colonel Christiaan Prinsloo was convicted in 2016 of selling more than 2000 guns to criminal gangs.

As well educated and skilled South Africans, predominantly white, leave the country in ever increasing numbers, with most giving the level of violent crime as their main motivation for doing so, it is unlikely that the situation is going to improve as their departure is negatively impacting business and the economy, leading to further reductions in opportunities for the underprivileged.

As with the USA, it does look like South Africa may be well and truly fucked when it comes to violent crime and, in particular, murder.
 

 
<Steering well away from the politics and arguments>..........

The fact remains many folk don't like guns, whether real or not. That gives ammunition - pun intended - who seek to further regulate or completely cancel our hobby. Fear and ignorance are a dangerous mix.

It's a wonder the way things are going in this country that they haven't come for us yet.

Eezer G

 
It's a wonder the way things are going in this country that they haven't come for us yet.


Agreed, I'm enjoying the fun while it lasts.  I've also put a lid on buying more toys because I suspect that at some point they'll become a liability rather than an asset.

One thing that we don't seem to do in the UK is buy-back schemes.  When yet more things are criminalised, you're expected to destroy them, or hand them in to the police.

So at that point, if you want to recoup some of what you've spent, the only way left to do that is to flog them to Bad Barry behind the Dog and Duck.  Not, I think, the desired outcome.

 
Sign of the times Mr. Borg. I'm also having having my fun whilst I can before Fishi Nutsak or whatever other  dripping wet Fun Police Socialist stooge/UnHolyrood prat is in power next decides to come for us.

Worrying as there's been a few "incidents" involving teenagers and airsoft guns up our way of recent, only a matter of time before it starts getting Meedja coverage and the inevitable hysterical clamour to "Dae Sumhin" starts.

 
Yup, sadly I’m in agreement

Im enjoying it while it lasts, before the spotlight is shone upon our hobby

But would I surrender my toys for disposal?

probably not 

but that’s another discussion ?

 
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