Upgrading my TM HK416D

[Daniel248]

Hi all. As the title states I am looking to upgrade my TM HK416D. Its currently at 290fps and shoots like a dream!! However I can't help but nit pick and want it a little higher around 330/335 FPS.

So my question to all you knowledgable folks, is what do you reckon ? I have read a fair few threads on here and various forums and it's a real mixed reaction to upgrading a TM.

I currently have it booked in with fire support for a 6.03 barrel and a spring and gears change and they tell me that will get it at the 330/335 mark I want.

My second question is, if I commit to the upgrade (which bare in mind I have already paid for I'm just have a few doubts after what I have read) will it significantly cause stress on other components within the gun.

Many thanks in advanced everyone !!!!

 

[Esoterick]

Yeah it will cause more stress on the gun, dunno how much by. They used to just offer spring changes and I asked the same question when I bought mine, they then changed this to a gear and spring upgrade package a while later.

It's a pretty contentious subject with TMs and I used to be opposed to messing about with them, but now I own a second recoil with a load of work done on it :lol:

 

[PeteS]

I have a 416 sitting next to me with all those upgrades carried out by Fire support. Its actually my brothers I have on 'loan' but as far as I am aware he has never had any issues with it. I am sure you'll be safe, Fire support know what they are doing.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Use the search function on 'HK416', there was a useful thread about this started on 24 October - http://airsoft-forums.co.uk/index.php/topic/28697-TM-HK416-owners-upgeade-advice/

 

[jcheeseright]

put an eagle6 m100 spring in it and leave everything else alone, it'll keep on trucking for years.

 

[Daniel248]

@jcheeseright

Hi mate. Appreciate the comment. You seem like you know the ins and outs of these guns!! Fire support have told me that their upgrade service of changing spring and gears will cause no harm on the rest of the gun. It's my option to change the barrel. I know that won't cause no stress on any components whatsoever.

But you advise just the eagle6 m100 Spring ?

If I wanted to get it to 330/335 FPS what exactly would you recommend?

By the way thanks for your time and in advanced I definatly owe you a bag of BB's or a couple flash bangs! You'll be helping me out massively with your knowledge.

I did try send you this as a private message but it said you can't receive any at the moment.

And just for the record if anyone is offended by me asking this question jog on. I've read numerous forum threads and not one has a definitive answer. You either get an answer from someone who owns a budget g&g or a smart a** who is doesn't know the ins and outs of TM.

i am new to air soft yes that may not be an excuse to some but if you came out and worked along side me for a day as a plumber you probably wouldn't have a clue either!!

 

[Daniel248]

Oh and thanks to the above guys who have chipped in with your opinions. I really do appreciate every bit of help I get and in turn will pay it back if we meet on the field !!

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

@jcheeseright

Hi mate. Appreciate the comment. You seem like you know the ins and outs of these guns!! Fire support have told me that their upgrade service of changing spring and gears will cause no harm on the rest of the gun. It's my option to change the barrel. I know that won't cause no stress on any components whatsoever.

But you advise just the eagle6 m100 Spring ?

If I wanted to get it to 330/335 FPS what exactly would you recommend?

By the way thanks for your time and in advanced I definatly owe you a bag of BB's or a couple flash bangs! You'll be helping me out massively with your knowledge.

I did try send you this as a private message but it said you can't receive any at the moment.

And just for the record if anyone is offended by me asking this question jog on. I've read numerous forum threads and not one has a definitive answer. You either get an answer from someone who owns a budget g&g or a smart a** who is doesn't know the ins and outs of TM.

i am new to air soft yes that may not be an excuse to some but if you came out and worked along side me for a day as a plumber you probably wouldn't have a clue either!!

The eagle 6 spring mentioned above is just a shorter spring made for tm recoils.They use a slightly shorter spring to the standard aeg gearbox.

Firesupport I would of thought would use a compatible spring when upgrading so wouldnt give that too much thought.

Firesupport are a very well renowned store that dont have a habit of trying to rip people off so I would just trust their judgement.

Tightbore is the only thing I wouldn't bother with it will give you a few more fps but is not so great for accuracy consistency. The TM barrels are fine and only really worth changing out for PDI or Orga.

The bit in the middle was a bit unnecessary and wont win any friends though mate. Havent seen anybody post anything negative on your thread.

 

[Daniel248]

@imtriggerhappy

Stupid question now, but why would a PDI/Orga be better than a Prometheus (which is what I have bought) just out of curiosity. Yeah to be fair I bought the gun from them and they don't seem to be the type to rip people off, just wanted suggestions from knowledgable people on here.

Genuinely didn't mean to offend anyone however I know people get offended on these forums if someone asks a question someone else may have already asked hence why I went off saying what I said.

It's just this specific subject is so touchy and not many people have had their TM's upgraded as they run so perfectly from stock that I need to get to the bottom of it.

Thanks

 

[GiantKiwi]

The eagle 6 spring mentioned above is just a shorter spring made for tm recoils.

They use a slightly shorter spring to the standard aeg gearbox.

Firesupport I would of thought would use a compatible spring when upgrading so wouldnt give that too much thought.

Firesupport are a very well renowned store that dont have a habit of trying to rip people off so I would just trust their judgement.

Tightbore is the only thing I wouldn't bother with it will give you a few more fps but is not so great for accuracy consistency. The TM barrels are fine and only really worth changing out for PDI or Orga.

The bit in the middle was a bit unnecessary and wont win any friends though mate. Havent seen anybody post anything negative on your thread.

Orga is a waste of time in an AEG without a bore up kit, which as far as i'm aware doesn't exist for recoils. Orga only works well with larger volumes of air than a standard piston/cylinder can provide. Added, it also brings the added bonus of a 35-45fps drop on the 6.13mm or 50-70fps drop on the 6.23 (hence the necessity for a much larger air volume potential), which would bring the OP back to square one.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

First off the prommy barrels are ok and you haven't bought a duff one if your worried.

Pdi are the straightest best finished barrels on the market. Their main ones are the 6.05mm which is great but to get the best results needs lapping but once done the difference is noticeable. Best off the shelf is their 6.08mm brilliantly finished and performs really well.

The orgas are widebore 6.13 and 6.23 which can give great performance with a well set up hop. Good range and groupings arguably better than the pdi but I personally am on the fence. I wouldnt recommend the orga in the recoil though, in an aeg you want a gun to be firing 390fps before you put it in because it will lose about 40 to 50fps.

Recoil gearboxes are not great for high torque builds.

The problem with tightbores is that you can get a small increase in range but the accuracy isn't as good especially with grouping consistency.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Orga is a waste of time in an AEG without a bore up kit, which as far as i'm aware doesn't exist for recoils. Orga only works well with larger volumes of air than a standard piston/cylinder can provide. Added, it also brings the added bonus of a 35-45fps drop on the 6.13mm or 50-70fps drop on the 6.23 (hence the necessity for a much larger air volume potential), which would bring the OP back to square one.

Beat me to it. I was already saying an orga isnt a great idea in a recoil. I was just pointing out that they are the only two brands which make any real difference over decent stock barrels.

 

[jcheeseright]

As said above, Eagle6 springs are specifically designed for the recoil gearbox, I'm pretty sure fire support just put in standard AEG springs... they work but they're not 100% correct, won't have any negative impact on durability but it does mean more lockups in semi auto when your batteries are getting a bit low.

Fire support as standard swap the marui gears out for SHS ones, it's not a bad thing by any means the SHS ones are really good and definitely will last longer than the marui ones, but, the marui ones will already last you for YEARS even with a slightly beefier spring so it's a bit of an unnecessary swap.

If you're fitting a prometheus 6.03 barrel too I'd go with an M95 spring rather than the M100, that's the setup I have in my M4 and it's given me 340fps on the button.

If you've not already had it done I'd also recommend a LiPo conversion and using 7.4v LiPo batteries, the marui quick change ones are rubbish and horrendously expensive.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

As said above, Eagle6 springs are specifically designed for the recoil gearbox, I'm pretty sure fire support just put in standard AEG springs... they work but they're not 100% correct, won't have any negative impact on durability but it does mean more lockups in semi auto when your batteries are getting a bit low.

Fire support as standard swap the marui gears out for SHS ones, it's not a bad thing by any means the SHS ones are really good and definitely will last longer than the marui ones, but, the marui ones will already last you for YEARS even with a slightly beefier spring so it's a bit of an unnecessary swap.

If you're fitting a prometheus 6.03 barrel too I'd go with an M95 spring rather than the M100, that's the setup I have in my M4 and it's given me 340fps on the button.

If you've not already had it done I'd also recommend a LiPo conversion and using 7.4v LiPo batteries, the marui quick change ones are rubbish and horrendously expensive.

I am surprised Firesupport just use a standard spring they are generally better than that.I think they swap out the gears because there have been a few failures. Marui guns are generally well made but the gears are garbage, work great if left alone but dont like being messed with.

Its all about balance with TM aegs once you mess with one thing something else usually gives up.

 

[Daniel248]

As said above, Eagle6 springs are specifically designed for the recoil gearbox, I'm pretty sure fire support just put in standard AEG springs... they work but they're not 100% correct, won't have any negative impact on durability but it does mean more lockups in semi auto when your batteries are getting a bit low.

Fire support as standard swap the marui gears out for SHS ones, it's not a bad thing by any means the SHS ones are really good and definitely will last longer than the marui ones, but, the marui ones will already last you for YEARS even with a slightly beefier spring so it's a bit of an unnecessary swap.

If you're fitting a prometheus 6.03 barrel too I'd go with an M95 spring rather than the M100, that's the setup I have in my M4 and it's given me 340fps on the button.

If you've not already had it done I'd also recommend a LiPo conversion and using 7.4v LiPo batteries, the marui quick change ones are rubbish and horrendously expensive.

LiPo conversion was done by fire support when I originally bought it. That was something I read up on and everyone said go for it. As far as Spring is concerned I have taken your advice and have ordered a m95 from eagle6.

So would you recommend I change the barrel or leave it be and just do the spring and see how I get on? And fob the rest of the upgrades off for the time being?

First off the prommy barrels are ok and you haven't bought a duff one if your worried.

Pdi are the straightest best finished barrels on the market. Their main ones are the 6.05mm which is great but to get the best results needs lapping but once done the difference is noticeable. Best off the shelf is their 6.08mm brilliantly finished and performs really well.

The orgas are widebore 6.13 and 6.23 which can give great performance with a well set up hop. Good range and groupings arguably better than the pdi but I personally am on the fence. I wouldnt recommend the orga in the recoil though, in an aeg you want a gun to be firing 390fps before you put it in because it will lose about 40 to 50fps.

Recoil gearboxes are not great for high torque builds.

The problem with tightbores is that you can get a small increase in range but the accuracy isn't as good especially with grouping consistency.

I thought it worked the other way? A tighter bore barrel gave you better range and accuracy ? But then again I don't know much in this game lol. I am definatly considering to not bother with the barrel if it's going to jeopardise my accuracy that's one thing with this gun the accuracy is good and I'd hate to balls it up because I jumped the gun and changed the barrel thinking I knew what I was doing and I really don't.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

To be honest the barrel unless you have a really bad one is the least bang for buck upgrade in airsoft.

Fitting a tightbore is the most common myth in airsoft and most of us fell for it at first. I have a prommy 6.01 and 6.03 stashed in a cardboard tube from when I made the same mistake.

 

[Esoterick]

I thought it worked the other way? A tighter bore barrel gave you better range and accuracy ? But then again I don't know much in this game lol. I am definatly considering to not bother with the barrel if it's going to jeopardise my accuracy that's one thing with this gun the accuracy is good and I'd hate to balls it up because I jumped the gun and changed the barrel thinking I knew what I was doing and I really don't.

If anything I saw a slight increase in accuracy switching to a 6.03 Prometheus barrel, but I did also switch the hop rubber at the same time. Overall it was debatable if it was worth the money, but I guess you can always switch back to the stock parts easily if you don't like the results.

 

[Alex34]

@Daniel248, you are getting some really good advice above.

Fire-Support techs are usually top notch so you should be fine. All you really need for what you've mentioned is m100 spring and maybe changing your bucking.

I wouldn't swap any spring unless it was for an Eagle6. As long as you are using it for mainly CQB you will not need to change the barrel either. At CQB distances you will not notice any improvements from the stock barrel. An Eagle6 m100 spring should get you 330fps without changing the barrel.

Take the barrel money and spend it on a mosfet or having the bushings and shims upgraded.

My suggestions:

Eagle6 M100 spring

Prometheus Purple Bucking

Bushings & Shims upgrade

Mosfet - BTC Spectre or Airlab

You could spend a lot more money on upgrades but will see the most significant improvements from stock with the above.

 

[jcheeseright]

That list there... good list. I'd skip the bushings and shims though, loads of effort for not a huge amount of return.

I'd also move the BTC Spectre to the top of the list, if I were to buy another recoil my number one priority would be to get a spectre in there ASAP. They are a bit like rocking horse poo at the moment though, so I'd just wait.

 

[clumpyedge]

Heres what im planning for mine

Eagle6 M100 spring
R-Hop
EDGI barrel

nothing overly exciting (already got the spectre installed and only doing the upgrades as ive seen the performance this set up can do)