Umarex/VFC/Elite Force MP7 AEG - Any info?

[emilianoksa]

Is the smaller by 5% size of the TM very noticeable?

 

[Crazy_Crystal]

Perhaps a topic for discussion elsewhere but can anyone explain why Umarex/VFC are considered to be of sufficient quality to qualify as "high end"?

This is something I've seen thrown around a lot to justify their price tags.

I think that it is mostly down to the high quality externals, some of their newer rifles are pretty well built by all accounts. although I have only ever owned the m40a5 which actually I really like and is a really solid rifle. by all accounts their hk417 and G28s are pretty nice too, although their sr25 is on another level I believe. (at that price I would hope so )?

 

[Rogerborg]

It’s just an upscaled (slightly) AEP

That looks like a full size cylinder.  AEP cylinders are teeny in comparison.  Bear in mind that 340fps (with 0.2g) is close to 3x the energy of 200fps.

Lots of meat in front of that cylinder too, no reason to think it won't be robust enough.

 

[Wo1f]

That looks like a full size cylinder.  AEP cylinders are teeny in comparison.  Bear in mind that 340fps (with 0.2g) is close to 3x the energy of 200fps.

Lots of meat in front of that cylinder too, no reason to think it won't be robust enough.

In terms of diameter? My concern is being so short it won’t have the volume to retain joules with heavier ammo

 

[Musica]

In terms of diameter? My concern is being so short it won’t have the volume to retain joules with heavier ammo

I really have no idea how this effects this you have some science to back it up? Just feel like if it pushes 330fps~  on 0.20s it has the power.

 

[PopRocket123]

In terms of diameter? My concern is being so short it won’t have the volume to retain joules with heavier ammo

With such a short barrel that should be enough and it's apparently an aluminium barrel anyway so accuracy will not be its forte. It must be a beefy arse spring to push 330 with so little volume so the 4 gears makes sense when you consider the mini motor is going to be underpowered plus just fitting the gears in there in the first place means smaller gears so to get the ratio back up you need the extra. As for price yeah I'm not bothering to get one new. Give it a bit of time and I'd love to pick one up second hand, throw a decent r hopped barrel and hop into, maybe rebuild the motor and all the airseal components have a decent cqb or sniper sidearm. It's not going to be a trigger response beast but it sounds snappy enough on the 11.1. Like with any mechanical system it's a compromise.

 

[Wo1f]

I really have no idea how this effects this you have some science to back it up? Just feel like if it pushes 330fps~  on 0.20s it has the power.

It’s all down to joule loss/creep. A gun can fire 330 FPS on a .20 and hit 1j, but if it’s not got enough air volume, when you put a .30 in it, it won’t be firing 1j, it will most definitely be less because the Air has all been used up before the BB has left the barrel. (This is all in 100ths of a second)

conversely.. my TM MWS fires 310 FPS on a .20 which is 1j (more or less).. if I were to put a .45 in the gun, the BB would have nearly 2J of energy because of joule creep.

if you ever venture into places like airsoftsniperforum, you’ll see lots of people building SR-25 AEG’s with 250mm inner barrels, just so they can utilise the particular BB weight they’ve chosen while still being under their needed FPS limit.  

In regards the VFC.. a tightbore barrel that’s a few MM shorter would help this gun greatly.

Is the smaller by 5% size of the TM very noticeable?

Having owned a WE mp7 which is full sized and the TM, it’s definitely noticeable and more like 10%. I much prefer the TM’s size tbh.

 

[emilianoksa]

Thanks.

 

[Musica]

With such a short barrel that should be enough and it's apparently an aluminium barrel anyway so accuracy will not be its forte. It must be a beefy arse spring to push 330 with so little volume so the 4 gears makes sense when you consider the mini motor is going to be underpowered plus just fitting the gears in there in the first place means smaller gears so to get the ratio back up you need the extra. As for price yeah I'm not bothering to get one new. Give it a bit of time and I'd love to pick one up second hand, throw a decent r hopped barrel and hop into, maybe rebuild the motor and all the airseal components have a decent cqb or sniper sidearm. It's not going to be a trigger response beast but it sounds snappy enough on the 11.1. Like with any mechanical system it's a compromise.

so you want the shell ?

 

[PopRocket123]

so you want the shell ?

It's what I do. They always get torn apart and rebuilt straight away anyway so may as well but something that needs the work. Picked up a VFC SCAR H off here for £150 with 5 mags and a hard case for a DMR project because it locked up due to a crap VFC motor and since then I've spent more on the BTC CHIMERA and scope than the original gun.

 

[Musica]

It's what I do. They always get torn apart and rebuilt straight away anyway so may as well but something that needs the work. Picked up a VFC SCAR H off here for £150 with 5 mags and a hard case for a DMR project because it locked up due to a crap VFC motor and since then I've spent more on the BTC CHIMERA and scope than the original gun.

power to you. Too feared myself to think about that kinda stuff.

 

[jcheeseright]

Bear in mind that the TM/WE/KJW/KWA/Whatever MP7s we've had previously are only 80% scale (not 95% as mentioned earlier in the thread), a 1:1 Airsoft MP7 will have plenty of room inside the receiver for a solid gearbox and a full size motor with no problems.  Some dude on Youtube called Asianwithhat did a chrono test on a pre production VFC MP7 and it was doing 360fps on .20g BBs.  

I had a go on one of the VFC GBB MP7s a while back and it was correct scale but didn't perform as well as the TM.  AEGs are a whole other kettle of fish though. 

 

[PopRocket123]

Bear in mind that the TM/WE/KJW/KWA/Whatever MP7s we've had previously are only 80% scale (not 95% as mentioned earlier in the thread), a 1:1 Airsoft MP7 will have plenty of room inside the receiver for a solid gearbox and a full size motor with no problems.  Some dude on Youtube called Asianwithhat did a chrono test on a pre production VFC MP7 and it was doing 360fps on .20g BBs.  

I had a go on one of the VFC GBB MP7s a while back and it was correct scale but didn't perform as well as the TM.  AEGs are a whole other kettle of fish though. 

Set up right, r hopped running .28s it'll definitely keep up with full sized aegs

 

[Musica]

do we know inner barrel length yet? 

 

[Rogerborg]

A gun can fire 330 FPS on a .20 and hit 1j, but if it’s not got enough air volume, when you put a .30 in it, it won’t be firing 1j, it will most definitely be less because the Air has all been used up before the BB has left the barrel.

Wouldn't a heavier, slower BB tend to pick up more energy from the airflow than a lighter one that might emerge while there's still some shove left to impart?

Genuine question, I'm trying to get my head round it.

Bear in mind that the TM/WE/KJW/KWA/Whatever MP7s we've had previously are only 80% scale

The TM/Well are ickle things, and somewhat toyish.  I'm not sure why they did them under-scale, unless it was simply to fit the AEP sized parts that they had to hand.  But even at that, they could have put smaller internals into a full size shell.

Yes, there should be enough volume in a full scale MP7, but I suspect the issue is that relatively low-set barrel, necessitating the offset air nozzle on the gearbox.

Old medicine adage, the 2nd dose costs pennies to make, but the 1st one costs millions.  VFC will have to set their prices high to recoup the costs of that custom gearbox.  Someone who comes along and just clones it won't have that problem.

 

[Wo1f]

@Rogerborg that’s correct if you have enough air. But in this case it’s gonna be the opposite I imagine because in AEP’s at least, they’ve ran out of air trying to push something heavy out before it’s left the barrel. In severe cases, in high speed, low volume setups, the piston is sucking air back in before the B.B. has left the barrel. 

Easiest way to show this lack of air is to shoot this or an AEP with the standard barrel and the heaviest weight you can shoot well, and then change the barrel for something stupid like a 450mm and shoot again. You won’t get anywhere near the range or flat flight path.

GBBR’s have the opposite effect because they’re “self matching” in the sense that you have a set amount of gas released from the mag, but the gas only moves to operate the recoil once the BB has left the barrel. I’ll edit this post in a few mins with some chrono pictures to show this 

 

[Wo1f]

TM mws firing .20

View attachment 41862

TM mws firing .43

View attachment 41861

Silverback SRS firing .20

View attachment 41863

silverback srs firing .43

View attachment 41864

TM 5-7 pistol .20

View attachment 41866

TM 5-7 .43

View attachment 41865

Now to show a lack of air and Joule loss..

JG g36c .20

View attachment 41867

jg g36c .43

View attachment 41868

 

[Musica]

I see the point your talking about piston suck. Wouldn't it be more of a problem for longer barrels as it has longer to suck it back? Or is it your concern that the smaller piston isn't sized correctly to the barrel length?

Was hop off for these tests? As you are seeing joule creep on every gun other than the g36c I've seen correctly set hop cause increase in FPS over  no hop or full hop. 

In the case of the Jg g36c a stock AEG would never be able to hop a .43 I doubt the VFC can hop a .30 out the box. 

 

[Wo1f]

I see the point your talking about piston suck. Wouldn't it be more of a problem for longer barrels as it has longer to suck it back? Or is it your concern that the smaller piston isn't sized correctly to the barrel length?

Was hop off for these tests? As you are seeing joule creep on every gun other than the g36c I've seen correctly set hop cause increase in FPS over  no hop or full hop. 

In the case of the Jg g36c a stock AEG would never be able to hop a .43 I doubt the VFC can hop a .30 out the box. 

It is more of an issue with longer barrels, but if you only have a tiny air volume then you can run into this issue with a short barrel. The other concerning thing is the cylinder length. It can be a meter wide, but if it’s only 5mm long, it’s useless. If the spring doesn’t have time to accelerate then your performance is going to suffer. The best example of this is crossbows vs compound bows. A 200LB crossbow might not have the energy, range or accuracy of a 70LB compound bow because the string on the crossbow only has a couple of inches from locked back to shot. In comparison, the compound bow has much more string travel so it has a longer time to impart all of its energy. 

I didnt touch the hop. I wasn’t willing to drag all of this crap outside at this ungodly hour of the day ?

stock might not, but I’ve got a TM recoil that’s got its cylinder volume matched and R hopped and it will happily throw a .40 as far as you want. 

 

[Musica]

I didn't expect you to fuck with your hop was just trying to rationalise the joule increase for heavier bbs on the guns. 

It's a valid concern as it's a new design they might not have done the math right for volume with barrel length.

It will only be an issue for people trying to use it outdoors I think as 0.25 for indoor is pretty much the standard. For £430 I'd damn hope it performs outdoors as well. I'm not making my decision on what to buy until end of Feb so hoping to see some practical tests of this done by some non youtuber shills if they exist. It might not even be out by then could be end of summer before we get to buy these.