UKARA

[sniperslucky]

Just been reading another post which pointed to the `UKARA register:

Q: Ukara rules only over 18's may apply and hold registered data on the list, but it is perfectly legal to give your son/ daughter a RIF free of charge?

Q:Why do UKARA not have an under 18's register where as long as they play and the site verify, the parents should be able to be a guarantee and held responsible for there kids.

Q: would UKARA look at a change if an online petition was formed and submitted

Q: Or is it a dead end and young adults have to half bright orange or parents that play.

Thoughts:

 

[Jedi_Master]

UKARA is a retailer database, a way that they (the retailer) can verify that the person they are selling a RIF to is legal (within definition of the VCRA) over 18 and with a valid defence. By law only a person over 18 may purchase a RIF.

Parents are not always responsible for their children, or the children themselves are irresponsible and their parent(s) cannot manage them. A gift of a RIF can be made by an adult to a child.

Even if there was an under 18's register, the kids would still not be allowed to buy a RIF. The rules protect the sport, and allow airsoft to continue, and I would not want to change the under 18 ruling. An advantage of being classed as an adult is that you can buy alcohol or vote, and with defence buy a RIF.

 

[sniperslucky]

• My main point is towards the game sites validating the young person swell even if it was a longer period to make sure they played the sport, i was at a site on the weekend and a kid had a two tone but it wasn't powerful enough (approx 200fps two tone) he got shot all day long by 300+ fps rif guns. Also stated that the parents would be held responsible to any miss use.

 

[Sacarathe]

There are already several (5+) petitions on this exact subject over the last 5 years, I believe non of them got above 0.002% of the required signatories.

You lose nothing by using a two tone gun, and the second hand market in two tone guns is healthy for the hobby. Although I admit that most items put up for sale are listed at way higher than 65% of retail.

• My main point is towards the game sites validating the young person swell even if it was a longer period to make sure they played the sport, i was at a site on the weekend and a kid had a two tone but it wasn't powerful enough (approx 200fps two tone) he got shot all day long by 300+ fps rif guns. Also stated that the parents would be held responsible to any miss use.

Click to shrink...

That had nothing to do with it being two tone, unless you're suggesting any suffered disadvantage could be down to the way the gun was painted? There is no way paint could make it shoot with less power.

 

[Esoterick]

Just been reading another post which pointed to the `UKARA register:

Q: Ukara rules only over 18's may apply and hold registered data on the list, but it is perfectly legal to give your son/ daughter a RIF free of charge?

A: Yes it's fine as long as they are "gifted"

Q:Why do UKARA not have an under 18's register where as long as they play and the site verify, the parents should be able to be a guarantee and held responsible for there kids.

A: I think this ties in with the VCRA, I don't actually know though as buying a gun as an under 18 isn't an issue for me.

Q: would UKARA look at a change if an online petition was formed and submitted

A: Depends what you mean here as UKARA do not control the VCRA. If you mean make a way for under 18s to get hold of RIFs more easily, I really doubt it.

Q: Or is it a dead end and young adults have to half bright orange or parents that play.

A: Yep gifted RIF or two tone

Thoughts:

Click to shrink...

I also take it you are under 18 as it's rare to see one of these threads from anyone over the age of 18

 

[sniperslucky]

No the gun was advertised as a 300fps 2tone shop brought but when chorno'd it was down at approx 200fps. It was an M4 carbine

 

[Zak Da Mack]

• My main point is towards the game sites validating the young person swell even if it was a longer period to make sure they played the sport, i was at a site on the weekend and a kid had a two tone but it wasn't powerful enough (approx 200fps two tone) he got shot all day long by 300+ fps rif guns. Also stated that the parents would be held responsible to any miss use.

Click to shrink...

You'll find that it was probably a gun that wasn't good enough for airsoft anyway. As long as you stick to trusted brands, painting it won't make a difference.

Parents can GIFT a gun to an under 18 because it's not technically selling. An under 18 UKARA wouldn't work as the parent wouldn't have a defence in buying the gun. Only you, and unfortunately, the law is the law and that's technically illegal, despite being somewhat justifiable in my eyes if I knew the said under 18 was gonna use it for airsoft.

 

[Zak Da Mack]

No the gun was advertised as a 300fps 2tone shop brought but when chorno'd it was down at approx 200fps. It was an M4 carbine

Click to shrink...

Some retailers are known to lie *cough* JBBG *cough*, and dont't look at the type of gun, look at the manufacturer of the airsoft gun. I had a two tone G&G CM16 and it shot at 328 fps. The gun that was chrono'd was most likely a bad brand of airsoft gun like a double eagle or well.

 

[Aengus]

As an u18 player I can see were you're coming from but I can't see it going well, also the law would need to be changed so it would actually be useful and any changes of airsoft law probably won't be for the best.

 

[M_P]

Just been reading another post which pointed to the `UKARA register:

Q: Ukara rules only over 18's may apply and hold registered data on the list, but it is perfectly legal to give your son/ daughter a RIF free of charge?

Yes

Q:Why do UKARA not have an under 18's register where as long as they play and the site verify, the parents should be able to be a guarantee and held responsible for there kids.

The law applies to the buyer and UKARA have no say in that, it's merely a retailers association. The law is what forbids it, UKARA is just a method of covering the retailers back were such a situation to rise where it's required. In short, there is no need for a junior register.

Q: would UKARA look at a change if an online petition was formed and submitted

I highly doubt it, the law is very clear, only an over 18 with a valid reason for their use may purchase an RIF, so buying for a child isn't really covered.

Q: Or is it a dead end and young adults have to half bright orange or parents that play.

Pretty much, nothing will change realistically and if it were to do so I can only see restrictions being tightened.

Thoughts:

I don't really have any issues with how things currently stand, is it fair on younger kids? You could argue either way really but as it stands I cant see much changing in the near future.

Click to shrink...

 

[sniperslucky]

Hi Aengus,

Just to let you know i'm not under 18 , I was merely looking at the point that the serious young players with responsible parents and responsible game site could they get RIF's instead of 2tones whilst being registered with the UKARA/VCRA. Seems silly that you can gift a RIF but they can't buy one? :huh:

 

[Sacarathe]

Hi Aengus,

Just to let you know i'm not under 18 , I was merely looking at the point that the serious young players with responsible parents and responsible game site could they get RIF's instead of 2tones whilst being registered with the UKARA/VCRA. Seems silly that you can gift a RIF but they can't buy one? :huh:

Click to shrink...

As people have said, at the end of the day the core issue has nothing to do with airsoft. The act responsible is the Firearms act 1968 S.24 (as amended in 2007). The original act makes note of imitation firearms, but only insofar as they would be used to cause another to believe they were real. As for minors acquiring firearms, the original 1968 act covers that too.

The VCRA defences only apply to that act, and thus not the legislation in FA1968.

Besides, in the last 5 years quite a few minors have been shot by police in at least two countries due to imitation firearms. So there you have it, the reasons for it extend from old law, and the reasons for keeping it are due to recent tragedies. IMO I can't see how a two-tone gun is a problem for minors - now, if we were to look at California - I do understand.