Told to leave site (Anzio)...

[Kls77]

All my hpa guns have there own reg and line and set to the limit needed for BB I use in them 

Ie . Dmr set for .45 .. hk53 set for .28  etc 

Basically cause I am too lazy to adjust them . Always take Allen key with me if needed to adjust  at morning chrono but haven't had to adjust the regulator for about six months of going to difernet sites etc 

And all my hpa are set to single only too before u call me BB hose wanker hahaha 

 

[Stratton Oakmont]

An hpa dmr!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that’s just dirty 

 

[Kls77]

An hpa dmr!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that’s just dirty 

Yep it is a haha .  Hunt snipers .... 

 

[PureSilver]

I don't know shite about joule creep, had it explained to me in detail, but [...] since forgotten everything previously explained to me

For the benefit of anyone else that's wondering what's going on, joule creep is a phenomenon where guns are more efficient with heavier ammo; they'll do 350FPS with 0.20g (1.14J), but 335FPS with 0.25g (1.30J), 330FPS with 0.30g (1.52J) etc. Essentially the energy level gets higher and higher with heavier ammo. Some sadistic oxygen thieves bellends knobgoblins people abuse this by passing chrono with 0.20g and then actually shooting 0.30-0.45g BBs with a correspondingly huge increase in power. Deliberately or not this phenomenon is especially prevalent in over-volumed guns like short-barrel BASRs, GBBRs and specifically tuned remote-line gas guns (HPA, Tippmanns etc.).

I approve of sites doing regular spot checks all through the day, using their own BBs, and heavy ones at that. [...] If they're going to do that, they need to be absolutely clear about it so that you can tune for it, and provide them at pre-game chrono as well. [...]  If they're really concerned about what over-volumed guns can creep up to by loading heavier BBs, they should be using 0.4g or even heavier.

I appreciate that what has happened with the OP and his friend is never going to feel good but it is a policy that is try to prevent what has happened in the past reoccurring. [...] What I have found at anzio is that chrono stations are available as are a range of weights to test and check that rifs are within limits. [...] [It] would be nice to see a clarification on the sites rules as to how they intend to test in the play area for spot checks, that way responsible players can check their setups and tune accordingly, especially if they are genuinely honest and decent hpa users.

Pretty much exactly these. In more than a decade of play I've literally never seen a marshal doing spot chronographing (even though it's been mentioned repeatedly) so it's good to see that at least someone does it. However, it's absolute bullshit than they don't tell you they'll be chronographing with random BB weights, especially after you've previously passed chrono. If they want people to pass chronograph at 0.20g, 0.25g, 0.28g, 0.30g, 0.36g, 0.40g and 0.45g and so on, that needs to be both specified and tested for at the original chrono. Chrono will probably take five times as long if you're going to be testing each gun with seven BB weights rather than one but if that's what they want that's what they'll have to do.

More the point being that an hpa system correctly set up for a given weight should not joule creep excessively with heavier bbs and unless set very close to the chrono limits (which is never a good idea given fluctuations in regulators and differing chronos) should not fail at any weight bb.

This is very much true; HPA guns with significant joule creep are running inefficiently and should be tuned more carefully. The whole point of electronic FCU control of solenoids is fine-tuning - with some experimentation it should be possible to tune the gun to shoot less than 1.1J (or whatever the limit is) with every BB in the 0.20-0.30g range.

I just wanted to tell people on what happened . I won't loose sleep over it lol . 

Very much the sensible approach.

 

[MAX DICKER]

I can't add much to this convo.... Kls77, you were clearly tucked up. I assume neither you nor your mate had a crystal ball or tarot deck to ascertain that the marshalls expected you to pass with .30g bbs?

I am absolutely for spot checking and zero tolerance toward people cheating. However, unless the site CLEARLY states their policies and procedures in this regard beforehand (on website, physical site notices and briefing), then enforcing your arbitrary rules that you have written on the back of your hand just makes you look like a bully and a wanker.

Just a thought, if your friend had passed with the marshals 0.3g ammo, would the marshal have put increasingly heavier ammo in until your friends gun failed chrono? What's the heaviest ammo you can get?

 

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

Just a thought, if your friend had passed with the marshals 0.3g ammo, would the marshal have put increasingly heavier ammo in until your friends gun failed chrono? What's the heaviest ammo you can get?

Spot on.

I'd be pissed off being spot chronoed with a depleted uranium BB...

 

[MAX DICKER]

Spot on.

I'd be pissed off being spot chronoed with a depleted uranium BB...

If DU rounds passed, you can always use matter from a neutron star.

 

[Rogerborg]

I always chrono on site chrono [...]

Well, you're not the problem that they're trying to solve.  Something to bear in mind is that the folk on this site and others represent a small subsection of airsoft players, and I'd suggest the most engaged and interested - and dare I say, honest.

I'm not long after seeing a Failbook post from someone who'd bought an HPA system and then thought to ask "How adjust power tho?"  And even at that, at least they asked. Others might not.

There won't be many folk turning up shooting hotter than a thousand suns, but it'll only take one to make a site shy of the platform and what it can do.

 

[colinjallen]

Just as to add some balance to hat has been said.

I appreciate that what has happened with the OP and his friend is never going to feel good but it is a policy that is try to prevent what has happened in the past reoccurring. Which is challenging with such a big site and potential high player count.

What I have found at anzio is that chrono stations are available as are a range of weights to test and check that rifs are within limits.

The briefing, although some have moaned that it's too long, does cover the fact that they run spot check and random chrono throughout the day and what failing that results in. Its harsh but like I mentioned before, it's in response to previous incidents.

While joule creep is something that is possible with all the systems we use to play it is much more open to abuse within hpa setups.

It. would be nice to see a clarification on the sites rules as to how they intend to test in the play area for spot checks, that way responsible players can check their setups and tune accordingly, especially if they are genuinely honest and decent hpa users.

On a personal note i know I've been there with a freshly built rif post modding and it's been on the bleeding edge of limits and despite passing chrono, I've put it away, knowing that a fail of a spot check means. I also tested a brand new bolt action build which was over limits and staff were fine with me putting it away and using something else, although this is all done before the start of the day at the chrono station rather than post briefing in the game area.

In the end I feel that the OPs friend has unfortunately fallen foul of a system put in place as a blanket cover to a broad issue that not all players understand the physics of, and the potential insurance issue which could ensue.

Sorry for the long post folks.

Utter bollocks!  The guy's gun was within limits on the weight he was using; chronoing him on a heavier weight than he was using and them booting him off site is out of order.

 

[JimFromHorsham]

Utter bollocks!  The guy's gun was within limits on the weight he was using; chronoing him on a heavier weight than he was using and them booting him off site is out of order.

i agree really , a very strange way of running things . Airsoft is full of “possibilities” , but the core of the game is built on trust so if you dont put some trust in your new punters then what’s the point  

 

[Tackle]

HPA aside, are there any other moody rules or behaviour from those who run/Marshall the site ? 

 

[EvilMonkee]

Its not just HPA though, he is like this with all guns apparently.  Just avoid the place

 

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

If DU rounds passed, you can always use matter from a neutron star.

Failing that, the matter from Black Sabbath's first four albums would tip anything over the edge.  Imagine Into the Void in your rif.  

 

[Lozart]

9 hours ago, Tactical Pith Helmet said:

Failing that, the matter from Black Sabbath's first four albums would tip anything over the edge.  Imagine Into the Void in your rif.  

I'd forgotten how much I LOVE that album!

 

[Druid799]

Just as to add some balance to hat has been said.

I appreciate that what has happened with the OP and his friend is never going to feel good but it is a policy that is try to prevent what has happened in the past reoccurring. Which is challenging with such a big site and potential high player count.

What I have found at anzio is that chrono stations are available as are a range of weights to test and check that rifs are within limits.

The briefing, although some have moaned that it's too long, does cover the fact that they run spot check and random chrono throughout the day and what failing that results in. Its harsh but like I mentioned before, it's in response to previous incidents.

While joule creep is something that is possible with all the systems we use to play it is much more open to abuse within hpa setups.

It. would be nice to see a clarification on the sites rules as to how they intend to test in the play area for spot checks, that way responsible players can check their setups and tune accordingly, especially if they are genuinely honest and decent hpa users.

On a personal note i know I've been there with a freshly built rif post modding and it's been on the bleeding edge of limits and despite passing chrono, I've put it away, knowing that a fail of a spot check means. I also tested a brand new bolt action build which was over limits and staff were fine with me putting it away and using something else, although this is all done before the start of the day at the chrono station rather than post briefing in the game area.

In the end I feel that the OPs friend has unfortunately fallen foul of a system put in place as a blanket cover to a broad issue that not all players understand the physics of, and the potential insurance issue which could ensue.

Sorry for the long post folks.

Sorry but all I’m getting from your posts is you appear to be defending the site owner for his own site incompetence , as @Kls77has said on several occasions the marshal chrono’ing at the start was fully informed about his mates set up for the day and passed him to play with that set up so that should be the end of it , but the owner then comes along random chrono’ing (which is perfectly acceptable , I’ve always been a fan of it) but to decide no he can’t play with that set up and telling him he has to leave the site with that set up is outrageous . In no way shape or form was the player at fault it’s ALL on the site .

The one giant elephant in the room I’ve not seen mentioned yet is the actual chrono’s being used and how accurate they are ? was the gun re-chrono’ed on the same chrono or a different one ? When was the last time anyone checked them to see if there actually recording accurately or not ? As I (like many others I’m sure) am frequently quite bemused by the variation in the upper and lower FPS numbers my guns are ‘recorded’ doing at different games days I attend especially as all my guns are kept stock and never ‘up-graded’ as I’ve always been a believer in “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it !” So there shouldn’t be a particularly noticeable variation in the output once there bedded in . I do think it’s fair to say most sites get the chrono’s out on a Sunday morning check the guns and then end of day or some time during it there either chucked in a box or in to a cupboard until the next game day , hardly the way you’d want a machine used to accurately check energy output treated is it ? 
just saying .

 

[Cannonfodder]

I appreciate that what has happened with the OP and his friend is never going to feel good but it is a policy that is try to prevent what has happened in the past reoccurring

He's got every right to be pissed off. Chronoing with any weight other than what is used in game is fucking stupid and pointless as it achieves nothing, apart from making the site owner look like a twat. To me it's like getting a speeding ticket just because your car can go over 70, not because you did. 

What has happened in the past to cause the site to introduce this stupid policy? 

 

[Tackle]

But it not even a proper "policy", its massively flawed, & policed by an idiot who's only qualification is that he's the "Boss", & woe betide anyone who questions otherwise. 

As always the only way it will be addressed is if people start to vote with their feet, give him a few gamedays with barely any revenue, & also get word out there of this screw-up so that hopefully the staff become aware, not only of the communities displeasure but also to educate them about where they're going wrong & how best to correct it. 

Yep the guys a dick & yes he needs Karma to give him a wake up call, loss in revenue will probably give him the biggest wake up call, but no one, me included wants to see any more half decent venues lost for whatever the reason, so if anyone knows him or his staff, give a nudge & a link to this thread, if he comes on in "God mode" we'll rip him a new one, or maybe he'll learn something new (if he's prepared to) ?

 

[Adolf Hamster]

The one giant elephant in the room I’ve not seen mentioned yet is the actual chrono’s being used and how accurate they are ? was the gun re-chrono’ed on the same chrono or a different one ? When was the last time anyone checked them to see if there actually recording accurately or not ? As I (like many others I’m sure) am frequently quite bemused by the variation in the upper and lower FPS numbers my guns are ‘recorded’ doing at different games days I attend especially as all my guns are kept stock and never ‘up-graded’ as I’ve always been a believer in “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it !” So there shouldn’t be a particularly noticeable variation in the output once there bedded in . I do think it’s fair to say most sites get the chrono’s out on a Sunday morning check the guns and then end of day or some time during it there either chucked in a box or in to a cupboard until the next game day , hardly the way you’d want a machine used to accurately check energy output treated is it ? 
just saying .

whilst you have a very valid point about the accuracy of site chronographs, and i absolutely agree that it's not ideal to be making decisions based on one machine that gets rough use (if in doubt use at least 2 different chrono's that provide the same reading). it's why you tend to see folk suggesting not to push to be exactly on the limit in case the site chrono over/under reads and you can't play. it's also why i take exception to the whole "ermagerd one shot out of 10 was 0.1fps over the limit, ban 'em, ban their mums, ban their kids unto the 7th generation" kind of site policy because unless they're using a superbly calibrated system they can't rightly claim that the reading was correct.

however minor variability of a gun on a shot-shot let alone a day-day basis is very much the norm, indeed the purpose of many "upgrades" is specifically towards reducing that variation for the purpose of accuracy. you'd also generally expect variation to get worse rather than better over the long-term as parts wear/degrade.

it's also worth considering that there's potential that one batch of bb's are a slightly different average weight/standard deviation to another batch, even when sticking to the same nominal weight and manufacturer, ofc the more premium ammo you'd expect less variation which is part of the cost factor in the quality control.

 

[Floperator]

Surely being humiliated and losing your game fee by being thrown off site should be reserved for the most egregious behaviour. There were all kinds of solutions here other than kicking the player out.

 

[Rogerborg]

I do feel compelled to point this out.  HPA users aren't actually an elite breed of operators who acquire a +5 bonus to Knowledge with every purchase.

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