Told to leave site (Anzio)...

[Rogerborg]

Wellll.... I approve of sites doing regular spot checks all through the day, using their own BBs, and heavy ones at that.

But.

If they're going to do that, they need to be absolutely clear about it so that you can tune for it, and provide them at pre-game chrono as well.

Mugging people with a surprise weight is a cad's trick.  And it's a peculiar weight at that.  If they're really concerned about what over-volumed guns can creep up to by loading heavier BBs, they should be using 0.4g or even heavier.

Sounds like another site owner who has formed a muddled but adamant opinion, and now won't be swayed by reason or logic.  Sadly, there's no critical thinking test for running a site.

[EDIT] Oh, this lot?  https://firstandonlyevents.co.uk/first-and-only-airsoft-rules/

I've ranted about that "actual" and "variance" utter gibberish before.  What a bizarrely over-complicated way of saying that they have a 1.1J limit for AEGs[*], but 1J for HPA.  And they explicitly say "All our Chronographs are measured with 0.2g ASG bbs", so why would you tune for anything else?

[*] Also, they don't seem to know that 350fps on 0.2g is 1.13J or 1.14J, not 1.1J, so it's not even clear which figure they'd use.

I'm calling Dunning-Kruger on that.

 

[EvilMonkee]

Power hungry twat sums it up really from what I have read.

This is the bit that annoys me It is the responsibility of the players to chronograph their gun before the airsoft day starts, Chrono Stations are provided on all sites.

So chrono isn't compulsory but they fuck you immediately if you fail a random check.

 

[Badgerlicious]

Obviously he's a total cnut, but if he's that anal about HPA & gbbr, wtf doesn't he just ban them from his sites, & go aeg etc only. 

It'll save him all his anal anxiety on gamedays, & everybody else the aggro that he creates. 

Probably so he can kick them off the site and keep their money. 

 

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

If they passed and tagged the chaps rif then they were  happy with it.  
 

Bloody ridiculous stunt to pull.  Thanks for naming the site.   

 

[Steveocee]

I'd have been shocked if it was any other site. Anzio are notorious for this. A friend of mine went to chrono with his MTW, turned all the way down, using 25's, was running about 300-305, marshall dried his teeth when chrono'ing and said he can play but if he gets pulled in game for random chrono then it's "his risk" - So it was under but still a chance of it not?

Great site for buildings, cover, layout.

Crap site for marshalls.

 

[Alimcd]

I'd have been shocked if it was any other site. Anzio are notorious for this. A friend of mine went to chrono with his MTW, turned all the way down, using 25's, was running about 300-305, marshall dried his teeth when chrono'ing and said he can play but if he gets pulled in game for random chrono then it's "his risk" - So it was under but still a chance of it not?

Great site for buildings, cover, layout.

Crap site for marshalls.

Was that Kyle? He’d mentioned they were stand offish about his mtw

 

[concretesnail]

Just as to add some balance to hat has been said.

I appreciate that what has happened with the OP and his friend is never going to feel good but it is a policy that is try to prevent what has happened in the past reoccurring. Which is challenging with such a big site and potential high player count.

What I have found at anzio is that chrono stations are available as are a range of weights to test and check that rifs are within limits.

The briefing, although some have moaned that it's too long, does cover the fact that they run spot check and random chrono throughout the day and what failing that results in. Its harsh but like I mentioned before, it's in response to previous incidents.

While joule creep is something that is possible with all the systems we use to play it is much more open to abuse within hpa setups.

It. would be nice to see a clarification on the sites rules as to how they intend to test in the play area for spot checks, that way responsible players can check their setups and tune accordingly, especially if they are genuinely honest and decent hpa users.

On a personal note i know I've been there with a freshly built rif post modding and it's been on the bleeding edge of limits and despite passing chrono, I've put it away, knowing that a fail of a spot check means. I also tested a brand new bolt action build which was over limits and staff were fine with me putting it away and using something else, although this is all done before the start of the day at the chrono station rather than post briefing in the game area.

In the end I feel that the OPs friend has unfortunately fallen foul of a system put in place as a blanket cover to a broad issue that not all players understand the physics of, and the potential insurance issue which could ensue.

Sorry for the long post folks.

 

[Kls77]

Just as to add some balance to hat has been said.

I appreciate that what has happened with the OP and his friend is never going to feel good but it is a policy that is try to prevent what has happened in the past reoccurring. Which is challenging with such a big site and potential high player count.

What I have found at anzio is that chrono stations are available as are a range of weights to test and check that rifs are within limits.

The briefing, although some have moaned that it's too long, does cover the fact that they run spot check and random chrono throughout the day and what failing that results in. Its harsh but like I mentioned before, it's in response to previous incidents.

While joule creep is something that is possible with all the systems we use to play it is much more open to abuse within hpa setups.

It. would be nice to see a clarification on the sites rules as to how they intend to test in the play area for spot checks, that way responsible players can check their setups and tune accordingly, especially if they are genuinely honest and decent hpa users.

On a personal note i know I've been there with a freshly built rif post modding and it's been on the bleeding edge of limits and despite passing chrono, I've put it away, knowing that a fail of a spot check means. I also tested a brand new bolt action build which was over limits and staff were fine with me putting it away and using something else, although this is all done before the start of the day at the chrono station rather than post briefing in the game area.

In the end I feel that the OPs friend has unfortunately fallen foul of a system put in place as a blanket cover to a broad issue that not all players understand the physics of, and the potential insurance issue which could ensue.

Sorry for the long post folks.

As mentioned thou we my mate was in limits and passed both times with his chosen BB weight . It was the weight that the marshel/owner had put in that took it over ? 

 

[concretesnail]

As mentioned thou we my mate was in limits and passed both times with his chosen BB weight . It was the weight that the marshel/owner had put in that took it over ? 

Its unfortunate that was the case but the joule creep effect can be abused.

If it was me I'd try to tune the system to reduce the effect to mitigate the chances of it happening.

Playing devil's advocate the site owner is trying to find a workable solution that follows the rules set out by the insurers policy, there maybe additional conditions following previous incidents, and something that is reasonably practicable for a site so large.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

would be nice to see a clarification on the sites rules as to how they intend to test in the play area for spot checks, that way responsible players can check their setups and tune accordingly, especially if they are genuinely honest and decent hpa users.

this is the key thing.

if it's not made clear that the standard of chrono that will kick you off site is different to the posted limit, then it's an unfair test.

i have no doubt had the op's freind known that they would need to pass on 0.3's rather than the 0.25's they were using then it would have been trivial to set their system up accordingly.

In the end I feel that the OPs friend has unfortunately fallen foul of a system put in place as a blanket cover to a broad issue that not all players understand the physics of, and the potential insurance issue which could ensue.

the argument could (and imo should) be made that whilst players might have no need of understanding how different pews work, the marshalling staff absolutely should know.

it's not like the information is massively complicated either, you just need to be sure you're chrono'ing on the players weight when looking at gbb's, hpa's and basr's as using heavier they can creep up and if using lower they'll creep down. that's it written in one line....

 

[Kls77]

But the marshel / owner gave a ruling then changed it to suite his bb? 

The farest way would have he had problem with my mates gun was to chrono all his mags to see that he was running the same weight and FPS ?  Not chuck a heavier BB in to say it's over ? 

I am not arguing about site rules etc . It was all explained in briefing etc . But my mate did it all according to them rules .. 

Tbh it's a lesson learned . I have been to a site where they chrono my DMr on .2 and they said I can turn it up as running lo . And I have told them it's set for .45 and is at limit for joules ? Difernet rules for diferent sites ... 

 

[Rogerborg]

This is the bit that annoys me It is the responsibility of the players to chronograph their gun before the airsoft day starts, Chrono Stations are provided on all sites.

So chrono isn't compulsory but they fuck you immediately if you fail a random check.

And again I find myself in full agreement with that policy.

However, they need to be crystal clear what the testing methodology is.

But mates  hpa was set to no more than 328 ( there rules )on .2

Yup, that's what their written policy says.  It clearly doesn't match the reality, and it's daft for them to even mention 0.2g in CURRENT_YEAR, but sadly they've still got that 350 / 400 / 500fps mindset.

It's also unnecessarily confusing, as what they actually mean is that there's a hard 1J limit on HPA guns.  Knowing that, and that they might drop in any weight of BB, I'd be setting up to be comfortably under 1J on a 0.4g (with the hop set for 0.25g).  If that makes HPA uncompetitive, then perhaps that's actually the tacit intent of the site policy.

What I have found at anzio is that chrono stations are available as are a range of weights to test and check that rifs are within limits.

Now, that's interesting and sensible, but contradicts their published policy.  OP, was that your experience?  Were heavier site BBs available at chrono?  Was there any hint given that they might test with heavier BBs?

I find myself in the peculiar position of actually agreeing with what they do, but sighing and tutting at what they say.  It does rather feel like the site owner enjoys the thrill of catching people out.

 

[concretesnail]

The range of weights at anzio is fairly normal and has been for while but the website rules list could be written to cover all the site they run, as a starting point. As they have quite a few sites I'd expect there to be site specific adjustments, though I couldn't say for sure as the only site run by F&O I've played, within the last few years, is anzio.

 

[Kls77]

They just asked what BB was running and chrono with that at first chrono test . They then tagged and locked off his regulator saying all ok ? 

Didn't see any other BBS there to chrono with tbh . I took a empty mag and full mag with desired BBS using that day and they just used that one . 

 

[Stratton Oakmont]

As an ex hpa user I’d just ban them for the same reason a lot of sites won’t allow dmr’s, people using them are generally at fault. Either over exited trigger fingers (dmr)  or ridiculous amounts of joule creep (be it known or just ignorance). If your gun joule creeps above the limit with any of the bbs used on the field then your dwell/reg is to high for the lower bb weight you are using anyway and you are over voluming unnecessarily (or not and your intention is to actually joule creep).

in your friends case whilst I can’t say it was a fair one on Anzio I would be suspicious of all hpa users as it’s the easiest system to abuse.

if your gbb is fine in the cold morning but needs  red gas to reach an acceptable power limit, guess what happens when the weather warms up. 

Anzio tried this with my green gas powered mws, afternoon warmed up and my .28 joule creep was around equivalent of 343 on .2 on their mobile chrono so they warned me i would be kicked off there and then

They made me chrono with .2 and it was 290 

Neither was going to get me into trouble as any heavier bbs just dropped in joules as it’s a standard set up but it gave me a start that my stock Tm on green gas might fail

 

[Rogerborg]

The range of weights at anzio is fairly normal and has been for while

I don't know what this statement means.  Is that referring to the BBs that are made available at the chrono?  I ask...

Didn't see any other BBS there to chrono with tbh

... because of that.

If they're going to have a zero-tolerance policy towards guns (something I actually agree with, especially for HPA), they should apply a similar high standard to their own communication and pre-game testing.  That's if the goal is to actually keep everything below their limits, rather than to have the thrill of shouting "Hah, gotchya!" and punting punters.

 

[Kls77]

As an ex hpa user I’d just ban them for the same reason a lot of sites won’t allow dmr’s, people using them are generally at fault. Either over exited trigger fingers (dmr)  or ridiculous amounts of joule creep (be it known or just ignorance). If your gun joule creeps above the limit with any of the bbs used on the field then your dwell/reg is to high for the lower bb weight you are using anyway and you are over voluming unnecessarily (or not and your intention is to actually joule creep).

in your friends case whilst I can’t say it was a fair one on Anzio I would be suspicious of all hpa users as it’s the easiest system to abuse.

if your gbb is fine in the cold morning but needs  red gas to reach an acceptable power limit, guess what happens when the weather warms up. 

Anzio tried this with my green gas powered mws, afternoon warmed up and my .28 joule creep was around equivalent of 343 on .2 on their mobile chrono so they warned me i would be kicked off there and then

They made me chrono with .2 and it was 290 

Neither was going to get me into trouble as any heavier bbs just dropped in joules as it’s a standard set up but it gave me a start that my stock Tm on green gas might fail

Yes point is there on alot of things . But I am not getting at the joule creep malarky 

I am getting at that was in there limits for .25 which he was using both times he was tested. So why be kicked off for joule creep on the heavy bb which he want using ??

If ur mws had gone over by that 1fps then u would have be kicked .. and u would have felt the same . 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

If they're going to have a zero-tolerance policy towards guns (something I actually agree with, especially for HPA), they should apply a similar high standard to their own communication and pre-game testing.  That's if the goal is to actually keep everything below their limits, rather than to have the thrill of shouting "Hah, gotchya!" and punting punters.

absolutely this, if it was made crystal clear that the field-standard was on .3's and ammo was provided at morning chrono then i absolutely agree, and would have recommended the op's friend set their gun accordingly using the heavier of either the test weight or their intended play weight. wether or not that's a fair ruleset in general is a matter for debate but if that's the rules of the site then that's what you have to work to.

like you, i applaud having a zero tolerance policy when it comes to chrono, however if you're going to enforce a rule then you'd better have it well founded in knowledge of how different systems operate and well communicated to the players.

 

[Stratton Oakmont]

Yes point is there on alot of things . But I am not getting at the joule creep malarky 

I am getting at that was in there limits for .25 which he was using both times he was tested. So why be kicked off for joule creep on the heavy bb which he want using ??

If ur mws had gone over by that 1fps then u would have be kicked .. and u would have felt the same . 

In would but it would have been my fault 

 

[EvilMonkee]

The just punting paying customers off site with no chance to switch to an alternate gun is just shite.