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The ghillie discussion

As a long term sniper, I would welcome the use of bolt action only for ghillie wearers. 
 

I think to be a sniper and enjoy that kind of gameplay you need to have a certain mentality (“patient”!), waiting for the shot to become available rather than chasing it. 
Personally I’ve always enjoyed flanking around the edges and sniping with a bolt action much more rewarding than run and gun, but that’s just me. It’s like playing the game in hard mode, with the kills so much more rewarding. 

I have been in games with non-snipers being ghillied up, and most of the time they were running about totally negating the use of the ghillie. 
 

But the counter point it is Airsoft and a game, so you can’t really say to someone paying the money bringing their own kit on a standard game day “can’t wear that mate”. 
 

Saying that I’ll be DMR’ing for the first time at the weekend (non-ghillie), so I may change my mind! 
 

 
I'll add that I wouldn't be opposed to ghillies being locked to semi, or at least being told to keep it on semi while at 1j, and using DMR fire rate rules (1 in the air, no spamming). Possibly also needing fixed-stock guns. I don't think it should be necessary to force ghillies to have an MED with their main gun. DMR limits are already a mixed bag, you'd be almost forced into using HPA just so you could adjust power output on a per-site basis. 

 
Just had a look at imperium airsofts "ROE", & their ghillie rules definitely should be adopted by other sites.

https://imperiumairsoft.com/airsoft-rules/
When they say ‘no snood’ for AEG, would camouflaged boonies or helmets be ok?

One of the first thing we would do (back in the army) when going into the field was to paint our face and convert our helmet into a little bush. So camo was always part of an infantry man. In my time we were mainly trained on trench warfare (cold war, our role was to dig in and try to delay the Soviets until the Americans arrive) so the head sticking out was the main thing you had to hide (and the hole trench).

So taking camo away from normal infantry men is wrong IMHO. Full ghillie? Yes that is not for a normal infantry man. But it is difficult on where to draw the line.

I am surprised to see coverage from Ukraine. It seems to be far more important to avoid friendly fire (wearing blue or green tape) then to camouflage yourself.

 
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Does anyone know what they mean by snood? It seems like a strange thing if they mean the head wrap, cos that seems basically pointless. 
If I had to guess (which I do lol), I'd think it was one of those head & shoulder jobbies?

When they say ‘no snood’ for AEG, would camouflaged boonies or helmets be ok?

One of the first thing we would do (back in the army) when going into the field is to paint our face and convert our helmet into a little bush. So camo was always part of an infantry man. In my time we were mainly trained on trench warfare (cold war, our role was to dig in and try to delay the Soviets until the Americans arrive) so the head sticking out was the main thing you had to hide (and thirre hole trench).

So taking camo away from normal infantry men is wrong IMHO. Full ghillie? Yes that is not for a normal infantry man. But it is difficult on where to draw the line.

I am surprised to see coverage from Ukraine. It seems to be far more important to avoid friendly fire (wearing blue or green tape) then to camouflage yourself.
#me too, just to slow the soviet hordes rolling through Germany, at the time it was quietly considered futile given the apparent size/might of their forces, but seeing how they've performed in Afghanistan & more recently Ukraine,  I think we might have made them really work for it  ?.

 
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camouflage is not used to hide you, its to disrupt the outline of the human shape


Disrupting the outline of your shape is what hides you from the human eye... it's like saying the purpose of an engine isn't to move the car, but just to turn the wheels... 

I'm personally for restricting full ghillies to BASR only. Especially when so many like to wear it in a way that the leaves drape over their armbands - you can become completely invisible on some of the more densely wooded sites. If you're going to have such an advantage you ought to have a role-appropriate "disadvantage" for the sake of not boring new players away by lurking in a bush and farming their group over and over without them even getting a chance to fight back

 
That's the even bigger fear really isn't it - a rental turning up, getting hosed by a rhododendron repeatedly seconds after respawning then just heading home and never bothering again.

 
I've crafted my own "ghillie". I put it in inverted commas because it's not a full suit with the trousers and all that malarkey, it's just a viper mesh jacket that covers head, shoulders and down my back. I made a rifle wrap to match and realistically that's all I really need to cover up if I pick my spot to hide properly. I only wear it when I've got my BASR in my mitts. I take it off to run anything else because, well, its just not sporting. 

As others have said, rentals won't get what us happening to them or appreciate the skill that a good sniper has employed to brass them up without being seen.....then again, the majority of ghillie wearers I have met on a casual skirmish day are utterly clueless about actual stealth and think they are fucking Batfink, "your plastic balls cannot harm me, my leaves are like a shield of steel!" kind of thing.

I think ghillie is for BASR only, just my twopenneth.

Thinking about an alternative that let's anyone use a ghillie. A ghillie wearer, not using a BASR is required to shout "Nee" once every 30 seconds.....and if there are two of them working as a team, one has to be slightly higher than the other to create a nice little two level effect to the shrubbery.

View attachment 127164

 
so what's camouflage doing if it's not hiding you? 


camouflage is not used to hide you, its to disrupt the outline of the human shape to make you harder to shoot at ranges of 300m+ i could have non camouflage clothing on standing still in woods and not untill i move would you see me 


Okay, and the point of a ghillie is to move through an observed area unseen, so I'm not sure what you point is. 

And that's the use case of military issued camouflage clothing, not all camouflage. 


The origin of the word camouflage comes from the French to disguise.

This still envelopes the military use, which is more than just hiding something to be unseen - it’s actually more about disguising what you do see as opposed to not being seen - especially to be seen but not noticed.

WW1 dazzle camouflage is a perfect illustration that camouflage isn’t about avoiding being seen but to disguise what you see and delay/prevent your opposition from being able to quickly identify what has been seen and to delay the understanding of its size, distance, direction, speed etc

A ghillie might hit the sweet spot of being invisible, but being harder to notice, identify and understand the body shape is a success for the ghillied player.

The enemy of the ghillie is movement, and equally the enemy of the player in jeans & hoody is movement 

We notice movement, then we interpret whether that thing that just moved is a threat or not.  That buys time for the quiet player

 
I've crafted my own "ghillie". I put it in inverted commas because it's not a full suit with the trousers and all that malarkey, it's just a viper mesh jacket that covers head, shoulders and down my back. I made a rifle wrap to match and realistically that's all I really need to cover up if I pick my spot to hide properly. I only wear it when I've got my BASR in my mitts. I take it off to run anything else because, well, its just not sporting. 


Same as me, except I also use it when DMRing, though I play that the same as my bolt action and is why I would ideally still like to be able to ghillie with a DMR. I actually prefer the head, shoulders and cape over the full 360 suit including trousers, because a full 360 suit gets caught on absolutely everything and drags half the forest floor with me when I crawl around. As you say, head, shoulders and cape with a rifle wrap covers basically everything that needs covering.

Cobra hood (which is still uncrafted...) and rifle wrap is for anything else, and I've pulled off some stupid sneaky spots in that setup, even in a plain black t-shirt and plain OD trousers...

View attachment 127177

 
I’m indifferent to getting ghillie’d up, done my time lying on the ground observing and trying not to be seen, and am quite happy running around but with a bit of sneakiness, employing fieldcraft and tactical awareness, every now and then to ambush the unsuspecting.  It is annoying when sniper spawn camping happens and I’ve seen people get frustrated and leave because they can’t be bothered and aren’t enjoying the stalemate, then again, I see it as a challenge to my own skills to get out, flank and employ some counter sniper.

If it’s talk of applying restrictions on numbers of snipers, etc, then maybe look at a ratio similar to a Lt Inf Bn 1 sniper to every 34-35 bods and got to operate as a pair - sniper pairs the only ones who could use suits as DMR is just a 7.62 capability in a rifle section. Ok, maybe a little bit closer to milsim but the game is all still just playing soldiers, just to differing levels of seriousness.

But then, like I mentioned elsewhere and others have pointed out here, a ghillie suit isn’t an instant invisibility cloak, patience and good fieldcraft are just as effective when employed properly.

 
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don't think there is/was human sized dazzle camouflage, would look sick tho
There is …..View attachment 127190

These are intended to avoid facial recognition on CCTV etc, and are therefore also a form of camouflage.

When we had our automated sentry gun, it would always prefer to aim at my head during testing, setting up etc.

When browsing the the AIs reference pictures we observed two things:

1) The torso presented the largest and most obvious target, but images captured in the tracking sequences were sometimes inconsistent, our conclusion was that though MTP/multicam is lighter in contrast to the UKs woodland, the disruptive pattern broke up the human shape and though movement was clearly visible prediction of where that movement was going became inconsistent.  The head was a more consistent shape, and the human body tries to keep the head steady when moving, making tracking and prediction more accurate

2) We realised that the AI still had its initial reference images from the first test runs with a football, heads are close enough to a ball shape and moved in similar trajectories (less the bouncing)

With two or three targets the system could predict and switch back and forth between where each of the heads would be by the time the barrel switched back

On a camouflage perspective for players, we might see a player but we still need to recognise, assess the threat and predict where it will be.

A moving target is easier to see, but we have to guess where to shoot 

A stationary target may not be so obvious, is easy to point at once identified, but not an immediate threat unless their barrel is pointed at us 

As well as ghillies waiting for an opportunity, the sneaky players who quietly but blatently stroll behind your lines may be ‘camouflaging’ with non aggressive actions

 
As well as ghillies waiting for an opportunity, the sneaky players who quietly but blatently stroll behind your lines may be ‘camouflaging’ with non aggressive actions


That's another hotly debated topic as some people consider it cheating. Personally, if I see someone walking nonchalantly and their hand isn't in the air, they're getting a shot to the plate carrier. One of my friends is really good at doing this, walking nonchalantly with his rifle in hand past the enemy team and then shooting them in the back, and it's something we do at Vietnam filmsims as well, but with a hidden pistol tucked into the trousers and no rifle in hand.

"No VC, civilian, civilian!" *blam blam blam*

 
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