Should the UK leave the EU?

[proffrink]

anyone got some chips..for all this salt?

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, a lot of your posts in this thread seem to be largely antagonistic. Could you maybe contribute meaningful discussion or just lurk more? We don't need sh*t-stirrers. Keep that on Facebook.

Like Trigger says: Short term the uncertainty was always going to kill us for a while, but it's far too early to call the long-term effects. Everyone saw a crash coming, but remember we're not even a week in yet. The economics argument won't even begin to unfold for another month, and it's looking like article 50 might need to be evoked just to get the official word out of Germany anyway, so we'll see.

Overall this doesn't change my opinion on the whole thing, but it is too early to pass any judgement on whether existing trade agreements can remain intact and if investors will come back and return the pound to where it was early last week. I think we'd be kidding ourselves if we thought it'd take less than 6 months though - we will see a late-year recession, but next year this could easily all be all but completely put to rest.

 

[EvilMonkee]

We were due a recession anyway just now it will be labelled as being a result of the Referendum rather than Osbourne being useless.

 

[EvilMonkee]

That's OK, £1 isn't what it used to be.

No a £1 is still £1. Just dont try to change it for anything abroad....peoples grasp of this is slim to say the least...

 

[jcheeseright]

No a £1 is still £1. Just dont try to change it for anything abroad....peoples grasp of this is slim to say the least...

Perhaps I should have worded it more simply... £1 won't buy you what it did a week ago.

 

[proffrink]

jcheese is right. You'll also need to account for rapid inflation too because that weak pound has a knock-on effect for importers who will need more money to buy the same items that they were selling you last week, so one had best hope they sort out these trade issues quickly and get GBP back to where it needs to be. Not where it was in the 80s.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

jcheese is right. You'll also need to account for rapid inflation too because that weak pound has a knock-on effect for importers who will need more money to buy the same items that they were selling you last week, so one had best hope they sort out these trade issues quickly and get GBP back to where it needs to be. Not where it was in the 80s.

How about this for a solution.We start making it ourselves again.

Increase british farming and manufacturing then we don't need to import as much and we create jobs at the same time.

There is also the fact that a weaker pound means we might be able to export more goods instead of everybody saying we are too expensive.

Everybody always bangs on about a level playing field but we have been to rich and fat to compete for years unless it was in the financial industry and that just led to people complaining that London was too expensive because the bankers bought all the homes.

Instead of worrying about what we might have lost lets look at what we can build.

 

[Sitting Duck]

Weird thing is with them saying this AAA rating AA may put off investors....

Yeah - well it kinda works both ways me thinks.....

If you got $1000 you could buy a lot more UK stuff or even invest more in a UK venture than elsewhere

To be honest I hope we don't see too much overseas purchases as we have lost our way in many areas

yes that is happening the world over but we might now have to start helping ourselves become a tiny bit more efficient than just outsource/sell off or buy from overseas

Yeah maybe wishful patriotic thinking - but all the same we just as much as EU need a kick up the ar$e now n then

So I'm gonna try to stop moaning - a little bit less anyway and try to at least remember it is half a glass

not half empty, not half full - just half a glass & if I want to top it up I gotta get off my fat ar$e and fill it not expect easy refills

 

[Sacarathe]

People need to stop panicking about the drop, everybody knew it would happen but hopefully it will pick back up.

There are a lot of knee jerk reactions but nobody knows where its going for definite yet as crystal balls dont really work.

The EU wasn't working as it was meant to so maybe the gamble will pay off or maybe it wont. But either way it probably won't stay as bad as it looks at the moment.

I still think this could be the shake up the EU needs to get it back on the right track and maybe there will be enough changes that a deal can be struck for us to remain in a way that benefits the average person better.

As someone who has a family and is living in the middle ground it wasn't working for me and lots of other people in the same boat.

One thing people need to think about before slinging mud is that whether its right or wrong for your perspective or situation doesn't mean that your view is right because everybody's view is different but everybody cant be right.

We are where we are now so lets deal with it as acting like children squabbling in a playground won't help. Its time to move forward not cry in a corner.

Been clean of mud slinging for three days now (and years before that by my definition). I certainly did not know it would happen, unless you refer to a knowing after the referendum result, because sadly the losses I refer to happened at 07:45 on friday before the majority of the country had time to appreciate the result. There is no doubt i'm annoyed due to my how i've been personally affected*, but I agree that we need time to see how this will really affect us, and scotland banging their own leave bell is not going to help.

*And I as someone investing 25% of my savings locally in offshore investments appreciate the drop of the pound more dearly than many others.

 

[proffrink]

But no one wants those sorts of jobs - they're unskilled, undesired work placements. We're an extremely well educated and established country relatively speaking. We just don't do farming or low-tech industry anymore. 1/4 of our physical exports are aerospace equipment and cars - those are not jobs that just any country can do well.

We excell at being a service industry-based economy: Design (architecture, product design etc.), IT, medical research, weapons research, aerospace design/manufacture and banking are all a huge deal in the UK. You can go to Dubai and see buildings designed by Norman Foster in London. Turn over a packet of branded medicine when you're abroad and you're very likely to see the GSK logo and research from a lab in Stevenage. See a jet flying above you? There's a good chance it's flying with Rolls Royce engines made in Derby. Go on holiday and you'll see HSBC adverts plastered all over the airport you're coming in at. Check out university rankings and you'll see two of the top 5 in the world are British.

We don't need farming and heavy industry. Greece needs farming and heavy industry. Romania needs farming and heavy industry. No one wants to aspire to picking strawberries all day or maintaining a blast furnace - they want to work in an air conditioned room designing a fighter jet, and we've been in a position for some years now that means some of them get to.

It's true that we've lost some of our high-skilled manufacturing to India, China and other places, but we are still far and away a country with an extremely high standard of living that imports not because we have to (although that's maybe debatable these days given how little arable land we have vs. such a dense population), but because we want to.

This is why free trade has been a big deal for us. We've been able to import raw or semi-processed materials for advanced industry for years now. We're so much higher up on the production food-chain than many European nations and we need lesser-developed economies with an unskilled workforce to feed the beast: Why change that? Security for the future is a good argument for moving away from relying so heavily on imports, but we can't have the cake and eat it.

UK Exports (2014)

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

But no one wants those sorts of jobs - they're unskilled, undesired work placements. We're an extremely well educated and established country relatively speaking. We just don't do farming or low-tech industry anymore. 1/3 of our exports are aerospace equipment and cars - those are not jobs that just any country can do well.

This whole paragraph is whats wrong with this country.
People have become too arrogant and self important. We need every sort of job because we have every sort of person.

I work in engineering and deal with graduates all the time and 9 out of 10 are totally useless. Lots of self belief and paper waving but no ability to actually work. Most grads are lazy and lacking in common sense they think just because they want things to happen they should but generally dont have the ability to actually effect any real change. In the field of engineering I would put an apprenticed or time served member of staff against a grad any day.

Every type of job is necessary and the day people start believing that that are too good to do something useful is the day they are no longer useful.

Every country should aspire to be as self sufficient as possible to create work for its own population. The reason we dont have as much arable land and as other countries is because all the so called wealthier nations have housed big chunks of their populations. Freedom of movement is great but not if its all one way.

That belief that we should only have the cream is whats turning us into a fat lazy society and we all know what happens to fat lazy things, they have a heart attack and die.

Edit; To put my beliefs into context the unskilled burger flipper who makes your lunch is far more useful than the advertising exec and graphic designer who did the logo on the wrapper of the burger. Such a shame he gets paid less for an honest days work.

 

[Jedi_Master]

So the England football team have also chosen to leave Europe... that is twice in a week that Sterling has crashed.

There is another wasted £175 million that would be better spent on the NHS.

A number of England fans are protesting the England V Iceland game to be replayed until they get a result they are happy with.

 

[Samurai]

Increase british farming and manufacturing then we don't need to import as much and we create jobs at the same time.

You can have low skilled migrants to work there. Oh wait...

 

[Sacarathe]

A number of England fans are protesting the England V Iceland game to be replayed until they get a result they are happy with.

So funny. Shows how many people don't understand what happened in the referendum: the 48 were forced to compete, I don't think England was forced to play in Euro2016, just as the fans were not forced to be invested. You cannot compare any result in anything you don't like to the referendum unless you were forced into the competition which you lost.

I would have preferred to not have needed to have voted in that referendum. Thankfully I didn't waste any time on the leave/remain campaigns (no tv).

 

[Sitting Duck]

oddly enough there are similarities - Cameron & now Hodgson resigned

Hmmm - is he also staying on for 3 months ???

no doubt we will have another new manager before PM

 

[BrightCandle]

If the pound v dollar v euro etc continues to stay at this level we should expect almost everything in airsoft (and many other things) to go up in price since its mostly imported goods. An increase of everything Airsoft of 10%, including consumables like BBs sounds fairly likely at this point.

Based on how often the shops restock the impact is likely to occur in around a months time. Retailers may be holding purchases in the hope the pound recovers soon from its initial big drops, which might also cause stock shortages.

 

[padraigthesniper]

Well now we got righteous glorious independence (lol) why should we abide by football regulations either Fifa is an actual proven corrupt organisation we should leave it just like the EU and if any of those nasty foreign twats wanna play with us superior brits they will have to pay money to the Queen and shake hands with Nigel Farage. Fuck the Economy as long as we are independent we will be fine. In fact we dont need no nasty foreign food imports, its not like we are such a established country we cant survive on our own produce? And if any of the poor cunts die then so be it the brexit results were probably gonna do that in the long run anyway. Fuck the EU and easy trading Shut the borders anything that leaves or enters shoot it... We will be independent from the world leaving or coming back is treason Long Live Boris!!!

(hahahahaha )

 

[Sacarathe]

Well now we got righteous glorious independence (lol) why should we abide by football regulations either Fifa is an actual proven corrupt organisation we should leave it just like the EU and if any of those nasty foreign twats wanna play with us superior brits they will have to pay money to the Queen and shake hands with Nigel Farage. f*ck the Economy as long as we are independent we will be fine. In fact we dont need no nasty foreign food imports, its not like we are such a established country we cant survive on our own produce? And if any of the poor cunts die then so be it the brexit results were probably gonna do that in the long run anyway. f*ck the EU and easy trading Shut the borders anything that leaves or enters shoot it... We will be independent from the world leaving or coming back is treason Long Live Boris!!!

(hahahahaha )

Heh, how long before the west starts asking us to disarm our nuclear arsenal.

 

[Sitting Duck]

edit - I'm out on this coz there is enough crap going round

I could answer this n that and provoke more crap

Told ya, that Farage is just like the Uncle you gotta watch at weddings n funerals etc....

OK - say to EU you are not laughing now and leave it that maybe....

BUT ffs - don't go on attacking the EU over n over - jeeeez who was supposed to be watching him at the bar ffs

but for now I'm gonna ease up and wait n see what happens before throwing more crap about

the odd bit of banter about football & England is ok and a welcome change tbh

but not gonna go too mad and start a load of pram wars just yet x x x

 

[EvilMonkee]

Perhaps I should have worded it more simply... £1 won't buy you what it did a week ago.

Yes it will! You are confusing inflation with exchange rate. Now, if you had said it wont buy you what it would a week ago IN PARIS, then your statement would be correct.

 

[Sacarathe]

Yes it will! You are confusing inflation with exchange rate. Now, if you had said it wont buy you what it would a week ago IN PARIS, then your statement would be correct.

Maybe he likes to shop internationally with more than a minority of his expenditure?