Should more sites weigh the bbs during chrono?

[Galvatron]

if you dont know, at plantation they dont chrono anyone and only do spot checks , so irreverent of weighting ammo during spot check everybody is essential  not chronoed  

Oh god! I assumed the spot checks were an addition.

How does their liability insurance cover them?

 

[mrfoxhound]

Oh god! I assumed the spot checks were an addition.

How does their liability insurance cover them?

unknown , but its put me off from going there again , the first time i went i was given a spot check but the chrono didn't work , was during a live game , marshell said he would come back to find me with a new chrono ....but never did

 

[Colin Allen]

Oh god! I assumed the spot checks were an addition.

How does their liability insurance cover them?

I cannot find the airsoft insurance details from when we had it for one off events, but it did not require us to chrono all guns, only those that had changes made to them since they were last checked.  Neither did it state that they had to be checked by us.

Regarding AP, chronos are available just outside the safe zone and players routinely use them; marshals then randomly check on the field.  It is made very clear that anyone found with a hot gun will be sent home.  When I first went there, this surprised me; however, having played there a lot, it is the only site where I have never come across complaints about players potentially having hot guns.  There is something about the culture of the site, the way it is run and the attitude of the very large number of regular players that seems to prevent it being a problem.

The other sites I play at chrono every gun; I do not feel any safer at them, probably less so.

 

[Rogerborg]

Regarding AP, chronos are available just outside the safe zone and players routinely use them; marshals then randomly check on the field.

This is how I think it should work - as long as there is a significant amount of in-game going on.  And it's fine to profile: bolties, HPA, gas guns (later in the day, don't stop chronoing after the first game), "silenced" Mk23s being used up close, anything that screams "DMR" but is brrrting.

Pre-game chrono is effectively voluntary. Even when sites check tags, even when they cut off the rainbow of historic ones, or clip the excess off at the first game, all they're checking is that the gun might have been OK 20 minutes ago, assuming the player told the truth about BB weight and didn't change the spring, gas mag, hop, or regulator. Heck, my G36C has a spring adjuster built in which (after a service and nailing the air seal) can push it to... well, let's say very close to 1.3J, with a few turns of an Allan key.

Ultimately what really matters is what a gun is actually producing at the instant where it shoots some kid in their earball.

 

[LMKipper]

When I first went there, this surprised me; however, having played there a lot, it is the only site where I have never come across complaints about players potentially having hot guns.  There is something about the culture of the site, the way it is run and the attitude of the very large number of regular players that seems to prevent it being a problem.

The time I went, I was really surprised by this - I think it was the first time I'd been to a site where the chrono was effectively voluntary (or more voluntary than other sites). However as Colin said it didn't seem to be a problem. There was a solid queue of people waiting to use them and I never really got a whiff of anything funny while I was there. 

 

[Tackle]

That's enough to put me off, when I used to occasionally player marshal at a group of Kent sites, there was one particular team, from Essex I believe, & led by a loud mouthed aussie bird (are there any other kind of aussie ??), & their tactic was to arrive late & miss the mandatory chrono, until one day @Duff Beer, who was a full time marshal pulled them all aside, only to find pretty much every rifle was running hot.

I think they all got banned at their next visit for other shenanigans. 

I was weird though, she was like some kinda pied piper, considerably older than the rest of the team & constantly barking orders at them, which they happily followed.

Anyone else remember them/her ? ?

 

[mrfoxhound]

That's enough to put me off, when I used to occasionally player marshal at a group of Kent sites, there was one particular team, from Essex I believe, & led by a loud mouthed aussie bird (are there any other kind of aussie ??), & their tactic was to arrive late & miss the mandatory chrono, until one day @Duff Beer, who was a full time marshal pulled them all aside, only to find pretty much every rifle was running hot.

I think they all got banned at their next visit for other shenanigans. 

I was weird though, she was like some kinda pied piper, considerably older than the rest of the team & constantly barking orders at them, which they happily followed.

Anyone else remember them/her ? ?

i believe she claimed to be Israeli or ran a IDF load out ? maybe 2008/2009 ish ? 

the question you have to ask is how many people are cheating the chrono at AP , the answer is we don't know because they don't check any weapons before first game , if one person gets hurt  and they attempt to claim on the insurance that's like a default win, they have no defence to say they insured all air muskets where with in site and legal limits . when people talk about insurance going up this will be why .  

 

[Tackle]

i believe she claimed to be Israeli or ran a IDF load out ? maybe 2008/2009 ish ? 

The years sound close, I seem to remember her claiming to be an officer in the aussie army, she was quite a lump, more like a rugby prop forward with mental wiry blonde hair & a big mouth.

Definitely didn't look like any Israeli I ever met ?

 

[Anonymoose]

The years sound close, I seem to remember her claiming to be an officer in the aussie army, she was quite a lump, more like a rugby prop forward with mental wiry blonde hair & a big mouth.

Definitely didn't look like any Israeli I ever met ?

Officer? Sounds more like an office block.

 

[mrfoxhound]

The years sound close, I seem to remember her claiming to be an officer in the aussie army, she was quite a lump, more like a rugby prop forward with mental wiry blonde hair & a big mouth.

Definitely didn't look like any Israeli I ever met ?

yea thats her . i remember she claimed people where gang stalking her and stuff on the internet she used to hangaround with a guy called Basildon dave and some of the guys  that used to run a shop i remember her running IDF gear when one of the first TAR 21 came out probly late 2009 early 2010 

 

[heroshark]

I usually bring my own scales to chrono and place my balls on them for inspection before I shoot.

 

[Colin Allen]

i believe she claimed to be Israeli or ran a IDF load out ? maybe 2008/2009 ish ? 

the question you have to ask is how many people are cheating the chrono at AP , the answer is we don't know because they don't check any weapons before first game , if one person gets hurt  and they attempt to claim on the insurance that's like a default win, they have no defence to say they insured all air muskets where with in site and legal limits . when people talk about insurance going up this will be why .  

As for not checking any weapons before the first game, I have seen that done at AP and have been checked before the first game.

 

[mrfoxhound]

As for not checking any weapons before the first game, I have seen that done at AP and have been checked before the first game.

you been spot checked before first game , AP does not comprehensively check all weapons when they have a game and they dont know if people are cheating the chrono  

 

[Tommikka]

It’s a long time since I last read a site insurance policy.

There will be ‘almost standard’ policies around the activities and a quote is based on the questions / answers on the quote applications and are most likely to be subject to a risk assessment (and ideally the mitigations and method statement) as submitted by the site 

The value of anything on those can vary considerably

On a different tack I re-wrote a complete set of risk assessment, mitigations and method statement for my friend to trade at a festival. They asked for a method statement, I looked at the risk assessment that she had already submitted was a method statement - so we amended the title and resubmitted - that didn’t work.  So at 11 at night I produced the full range and in minutes of the email without the time to read the content they accepted it all

It is best practice to chronograph all customer guns before play begins.  But if the sites risk assessment, mitigations, method statement, staff procedures, insurance policy don’t say so then that’s an argument for later when a claim is made 

This is an American insurer that has a good video series for site owners (it’s titled Paintball safety but covers multiple activities including airsoft)

Their initial quote form for Airsoft does ask about chrono limits but does not ask about pre-game checks

http://www.cossioinsurance.com/

https://youtube.com/@cossioinsurance1558?si=mLLlStU8w1OCFpqW

 Back in the day I regularly played at a rental site, and it was this site that we first ran events.

On rental days they did not chronograph as a matter of routine as own gunners were rare.  (and it meant taking out the big red chrono to do so)

We were first checked by shooting at the magic chrono tree with the head marshal looking at how our shots fired

Subsequently I brought my own chrono with me and grab a marshal to watch me use it

When we ran events I rewrote the rules and disclaimer*, we used chronos for a full pre - check, tag and 

* the existing disclaimer was useless for an own gunner event.  I was able to rewrite ‘all guns left on the rack before exiting to safe zone’ to ‘made safe, barrel blocker, turned off etc’ (exact wording varied). That as acceptable and did not breach their insurance terms.

We were running the first ever game under a scenario organiser collective with a common set of minimum rules, which included air safety training & issuing air passes for self fill.  I needed to do that to comply with the collectives rule set but the insurance explicitly required trained staff only to operate the fill station, so I could not allow self fills 

By the next year the site owner had the insurance policy updated, and we could fully run the air pass training & self fills

(He based adding this to the policy using my documentation, such as revised filling procedures - having the paintballs recognised national body UKPSF logo may have helped.   Perhaps his premiums were cheaper, or at least increase in premium was less than the income for more own gunners at events etc)

 

[Lyndication]

They should do mid game chrono checks where you empty your loaded mag for the BBs to be weighed.

If it doesn't match the claimed weight then they hang, draw, and quarter you in the safe zone during the lunch break.

 

[Cannonfodder]

yea thats her . i remember she claimed people where gang stalking her and stuff on the internet she used to hangaround with a guy called Basildon dave and some of the guys  that used to run a shop i remember her running IDF gear when one of the first TAR 21 came out probly late 2009 early 2010 

Wasn't she the one gobbing off on arnies about being police in Australia and that she personally stopped a mass shooting?

 

[Rogerborg]

I was weird though, she was like some kinda pied piper, considerably older than the rest of the team & constantly barking orders at them, which they happily followed.

Simping for a dommy mommy. ?

 

[Tackle]

Wasn't she the one gobbing off on arnies about being police in Australia and that she personally stopped a mass shooting?

Must've missed that, she was obviously an absolute Walt of the highest order ?

 

[mrfoxhound]

Wasn't she the one gobbing off on arnies about being police in Australia and that she personally stopped a mass shooting?

i remember observing her have a big melt down on facebook claiming people where trolling her ,which turned into a large group of people gang stalking her on the internet and in real life , then she disappeared.... guess the gang stalkers got her 

 

[Colin Allen]

... and they dont know if people are cheating the chrono  

Which isn't really that different from the situation at the vast majority of sites.

"What weight are you using?"

"25s."

"Yeah, you're fine."

A) Player returns to his table and his bottle of 0.30g BBs.

or

B) When going out for the first game, Player resets his hop to where it should be.

You don't like the way AP do it, that is fine.  In all the times I have been there, I have never heard of anyone complaining about a potentially hot gun.