Short weapons V long weapons..Difference??

[Rogerio134]

Just wondering what people thought of long/short weapons in airsoft. I want to get a long rifle like a FNC/FAL/SLR etc as i do like the long range sitting back and pinging the enemy.

However i do really like the look of some of the short weapons like the UMP or even something like this http://www.zerooneairsoft.com/product_info...roducts_id=6082

Basically at what point do you really start to notice range difference on weapons?? is there disparity between longer and shorter barreled weapons or does it really not matter until you start getting to pistols etc.

 

[Tariq]

Depends on the manufacturer at times.

A TM P90 could have a much better range than a SRC M4 etc.

Generally you would see a slight difference, but its usually down to compression / hop unit rather than barrel length.

 

[Cam-the-airsoft-sniper]

You see,

Some girls like a longer 'weapon' while others....

Oh! You mean...

Well A shorter weapon is easier to use in CQB while a longer one is.... longer? and maybe better for woodland.

 

[TheFull9]

Get both, buy a bullpup.

A longer barrel helps when you're trying to hit longer range targets in the woods, but barrel length is probably one of the less important components overall. As mentioned, hop up parts/setup and shot-to-shot FPS consistency are what really counts in range/accuracy. Quality of BBs and the quality of the barrel also play a part.

End of the day, once you go past about 360mm (14.5"/Standard carbine AR-15/M4) you see hardly any increase in accuracy, there have been tests done on this. There's also fairly little difference between a CQB Mr (for example) and a Carbine length, or even a 20" Rifle length/M16. Even most woodland sites have bunkers and buildings etc so unless you're playing at a pure CQB site or a really massive open, flat area then there's not really a definitive option. If you want versatility go for something in the middle, if you want a marksmans' rifle then be prepared to start putting a lot of money in to 1 gun and take a lot of time reading up on technical forums to learn about how to optimise your setup.

 

[Sike]

i used a Full length M16 at The Mall Reading and didnt really have much problems with the length.

 

[Rock-climby-Dave]

you also managed to use a full length rifle at a CQB site. ba-dum-tish.

Essentially long/short barrel makes no difference, as anyone on the receiving end of my VSR G-spec (short barrel) or UMP will account. Get the hop up set right and you should be fine.

Get something with a stock the right length to make shouldering and thus giving a stable shooting platform.

The reason there are different length barrel is simple:

The real steel have different length barrels and we wish to replicate them as closely as possible.

 

[craig]

if your going for a p90 use mid cap mags they work much better,

and sa80 all the way its light weight, compact will work well indoors and out and most importantly its one of three weapons that looks good with dpm B)

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

if your going for a p90 use mid cap mags they work much better,and sa80 all the way its light weight, compact will work well indoors and out and most importantly its one of three weapons that looks good with dpm B)

Light weight? Haa, that's a good one, Craig. It's probably one of, if not the heaviest 5.56mm rifles on earth.

I wouldn't advise one for CQB because I find it awkward to aim over cover at close range targets because the sights are raised so high above the barrel.

 

[craig]

i run around with a fe**ing minimi everything else is light weight but ill have to agree also the minimi an excellent cqc weapon great for any house problem B)

also is you fit the sa80 sling to a sa80 "duh" its helps with the weight

 

[Ian_Gere]

I'm going to be the voice of dissent here... There's always one, eh?

It seems strange to me that the same people who say that a tighter bore improves accuracy, can also say that the length of the barrel either doesn't matter at all or doesn't matter much. It is friction between the inner bore and BB which imparts additional directionality to the trajectory of the BB or, in pure mechanical engineering terms, the barrel exerts a force on the BB which alters the sum of the BB's angular momentum, relative to the rest position (the hop up chamber) and the centre of the earth (bearing in mind that no matter how level a shot may appear, it is actually on a ballistic trajectory which is some shape of arc relative to the imaginary straight line that would be the shortest distance between the rest position and the target) and this is then further altered after the BB exits the muzzle by air resistance, wind pressure, gravity and back spin to produce a constantly changing vector (direction, relative to an imaginary still point, and velocity).

Thus we see (in the somewhat pompous language of engineering equations) that if the additional frictional force exerted upon a BB by a tighter bore (which incidentally is compensated for in terms of simple speed by the additional pressure developed behind the BB due to the smaller gap between BB and barrel, but the direction of the force nonetheless adds to the sum of angular momentum) results in greater accuracy, then it follows that a longer barrel, which will also generate more friction between the BB and inner bore than a shorter, will also result in greater accuracy, even though it will take additional power and/or a better air seal at the cylinder end to produce the same velocity as from the same length tight bore barrel.

To be strictly accurate, I should mention that the frictional force applied by the barrels actually has multiple directions, each of which are summed into the BB's angular momentum. In fact it is these very multiples that cause the BB to fly "straighter": a little bit left, a little up, down, left some more, right, down, right, up, etc. sums into a vector, at the point of exit from the muzzle, that is closer to an extension of a line from the rest point through the foresight, on a flat 2D plane, than it would be with fewer multiples...

All of which probably explains why, in my own experience, an ICS M4 is more accurate than a G36C (Ed, what make are they @Skirmish?), which in turn is more accurate than an AK47 Beta Spetznaz, but my CYMA AK47, with about 95mm more barrel, is more accurate than the ICS M4, and my Ares L1A1 SLR with an approx extra 165mm of barrel, is more accurate than my AK... however I'm not sure that Daft Lad's L96 with an extra 30mm more barrel is even as accurate as my SLR, despite having better optics that are also set up properly, whereas so far I haven't sussed how to get my 20x32 scope working well for me (not that I've actually put much effort into it yet though :lol: ).

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

They're SRC Version 3s at Skirmish, Ian.

Also, as far as sniper upgrades go I think Daft Lad's L96 is on the lowest end of the spectrum, he's just made it shoot at a high velocity as far as I'm aware. Nothing done to make it more accurate or more consistent, he also still uses light weight ammo, which is never going to be stable travelling at such a high speed.

Also, aside from taking barrel length into account there's the additional variable of bore size, hop and ammo weight.

A shorter, tightbore barrel might offer more accuracy than a slight longer, less tight barrel. The weight of BB, fps and hop up are also massively contributing factors which relate to accuracy, but if we're just talking about barrel length and assuming all other variables are equal I think you're correct in saying that the longer the better. At least until it becomes so long that the BBs just dibble out of the end because the cylinder can't produce enough air to get them flying properly.

 

[G-Force]

As far as I'm aware the length of the barrel in airsoft should have little or no effect on range/accuracy. This is because airsoft guns are not rifled but instead work like muskets which are smootbore (no grooves in the barrel). In a real steel firearm there are helical grooves in the barrel which give the bullet its spin but of course you don't get this in airsoft.

I may not be 100% correct but I don't think the length makes much of a difference; other performance upgrades like hop rubbers are more useful. I've seen smaller guns outrange longer ones. So the moral of the story is: it's not size that matters but performance.

 

[TPI]

TK Twist Barrel's don't count then? i swear by them aswell allow's me a CQB FPS LOL

 

[ScoobySnacks]

The issue airsofters have is that their projectiles have what is possibly the least efficient form of all. It's certainly the least stable. The ballistics of a sphere are terrible. Their ballistic coefficient is poor, and the spin about the longitudinal axis that works so well to stabilise bullets and pellets is horribly inefficient. The along axis spin of a bullet is self stabilising, with positive stability given sufficient angular velocity. A sphere of a similar mass displays negative stability, and tends to yaw off axis due to gyroscopic precession.

The distance that a sphere travels is determined by the velocity that it achieves. A 0.2 gram bb will travel a similar distance at 320fps if it's fired from a pistol with a 3" barrel, or an M4 with a 16" barrel. That's not to say both will be as accurate.

Hop-up gives backspin to the BB, which will start the BB on a trajectory above the bore line. It might also assist a little in stabilising the projectile on the trajectory. The fact is that a ball will never be an accurate projectile at extended ranges. My hunting rifle fires a 6mm projectile (well, .243" actually) and I expect to be able to place a group of five shots within one inch at two hundred yards. I would be surprised if you could manage to put five shots from any BB gun within that size of group from thirty yards. The difference is the bullet is travelling at 3000 fps, and is gyroscopically stabilised along the axis of flight, whereas the BB isn't.

All of that doesn't really help of course. I guess getting the correct hop-up setting by playing with it, and trying different BB weights to find the best for your weapon are more important than all talk of barrel length and bore diameter.

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

Well I think we have our answer lol.

Physics is the winner Cheers for that input, Scooby.

 

[Ian_Gere]

They're SRC Version 3s at Skirmish, Ian.
Also, as far as sniper upgrades go I think Daft Lad's L96 is on the lowest end of the spectrum, he's just made it shoot at a high velocity as far as I'm aware. Nothing done to make it more accurate or more consistent, he also still uses light weight ammo, which is never going to be stable travelling at such a high speed.

Cheers, Ed, and yeah, DLad's L96 is bog standard, just the 150 spring - it's still for sale, I think - £100 so, yeah, no expensive mods!

Also, aside from taking barrel length into account there's the additional variable of bore size, hop and ammo weight.
A shorter, tightbore barrel might offer more accuracy than a slight longer, less tight barrel. The weight of BB, fps and hop up are also massively contributing factors which relate to accuracy, but if we're just talking about barrel length and assuming all other variables are equal I think you're correct in saying that the longer the better. At least until it becomes so long that the BBs just dibble out of the end because the cylinder can't produce enough air to get them flying properly.

You're totally right, mate. After reaching so far back in my memory to remember my mechanical engineering studies, I can't believe that I missed out even just a simple "all things being equal"!

I'll tell you what I appreciate most from your post, Scoob: that you came out and said straight up that range is a function of velocity. I've read some people's opinions that sound more like they're discussing the projected outcome of voodoo than ballistics. For sure it's complex when you start to take twist barrels and hop into account, but hop will only get you 5-10m extra useful range and no matter how good a barrel you have, even 0.4g BBs, nevermind 0.25g, are affected far more by even a mild zephyr of wind than any gucci gun parts...

As you say, a 1" grouping of 5 shots at 30 yards with any BB gun would be close to miraculous!

That said, a well set up gun does seem to be worth the effort for hitting, say, head and shoulders sized targets at maximum range, and that is where you notice it most, eh?

 

[ScoobySnacks]

Well, that's the name of the game Ian, get the balls to hit the bloke on the other team, and if something can decrease the group from three feet to two feet, then you'll get appreciably more pellets on target, and so more hits.

 

[Ian_Gere]

Scoob, does the idea of calling 3 or even 2 feet a "grouping" tweek your funny bone too, or is it just me? Anybody...?

 

[ScoobySnacks]

I'd say that's more of a pattern than a group.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/pattern_shotgun.htm

But then again, I'm used to hunting rifles, firing 100 grains at 3000 fps, in a spin stabilised, aerodynamically shaped projectile. A sphere is never going to be very accurate.