S&T PP19 Bizon

[Ian_Gere]

Details

So as far as I know the S&T is a clone of the Silverback for 1/2 the price. It's full metal* with plastic furniture and mag; V3 7mm gearbox, AK hop unit, and I think 240mm barrel, so it's parts compatible with my AK arsenal - I even have a Systema 6.04mm TBB which would fit lurking on a shelf.

*Redwolf say aluminium, gunfire.pl say steel & zamak - I'd guess the stock has to be steel, so i'm inclined to believe gunfire.

I'm thinking this could be the sniper backup I've been looking for. The mag is a 160rnd midcap, so no need to carry a spare when sniping, which is just as well because finding a pouch that would hold one wouldn't be so easy, i expect! Of course there is no forward sling mount, which would not help for what i have in mind, because it will need to be slung out of my way but not swinging around getting tangled up with SVD sling, webbing, or bushes, which is the problem with using an AKS-74U. Shouldn't be too difficult to put an eyebolt through the handguards though...

So whaddaya hear, whaddaya know? Help me decide whether to buy one please

 

[Monty]

Well considering S&T tend to produce crap products, the Silverback version isn't very good and changing mags is a task, this gun smells like a recipe for disaster.

Are there any reviews on it?

 

[Ian_Gere]

I don't know anything about S&T and i haven't read much about the Silverback either, but nothing i've read has screamed 'shite!' The mag system looks easy enough to use: you just hook the 2 prongs onto the pins and rock'n'lock just like an AK mag. You'd only get a problem if you didn't keep pressure forward keeping both the prongs locked in place so it could not shift to either side.

Where have you heard that the Silverback one isn't good? I thought i'd ask if anyone i could have a conversation with has had one or had a go with one before looking for reviews. Maybe I should see what i can find as part of making this thread work for the forum...

 

[Monty]

I meant that that it's hard to change magazines because on the Silverback version the magazines are very tight (nothing a bit of sanding won't fix.)

And I think the trigger sometimes locks up one semi auto.

 

[Ian_Gere]

Hmmm so according to EpicAirsoft the Silverback fire selector is glued into the gearbox and still loose as fuck! That's a major no-no...

...but truly epic accuracy from an off the shelf gun.

Team Blacksheep Airsoft review: hmmm wobbly outer barrel and stock no lock -> not so bothered by the barrel thing because I'm sure I can come up with a simple low cost bodge to sort it out, but the failure of the stock to lock folded is a potential deal breaker. I mean, shit, one of the main things I need is for it to be versatile in the way it slings and stock folded from a single point sling over my left shoulder so the gun hangs under my right armpit would have been the way i'd have tried first.

If it hadn't been for the mag in it, my AKS-74U would probably have worked out ok carried like that, although it's stock had already taken a beating before the gun came to me 2nd-5th-'kknows hand, so it doesn't stay locked folded. I spose that if i managed to file the Bizon stock so that it would engage with that pin, at least it would stay firmly locked.

 

[Unrustle_Thine_Jimmies]

There are also a few PP19s coming out from other Chinese companies. JG released one not long ago and it was subsequently re-branded by Echo1 in the states. It has a plastic body and a different assembly style to the S&T/Silverback,it's in the Blacksheep/echo1 marketing team comparison you read Ian. It's also got the funky anti rattle high cap design.

The CYMA one is an interesting specimen. It isn't all metal which is odd for CYMA,I'd expect it to at least have a zamak body. It has a plastic receiver just like the JG but appears to be a clone of the Silverback like the S&T,I can't confirm this 100% though.

Overall I'd quite like a Bizon,would be a nice sniper backup-More reliable than an AEP and much easier to work on. If I were to buy one I'd probably gofor the JG since their gearboxes are great and the plastic body reduces weight. CYMA would be a nice option due to their sexy hop up units but I've had nothing but trouble with them recently- Gearbox shells being off spec and even receivers being off,they seem to be on a roll of bad QC recently.

I'd be wary of silverback clones but I have faith enough in our Chinese friends that they might have the ingenuity to fix the silverback's fuckups,such as the piss poor selector mech,and gun jamming semi being a gearbox releated issue that would be a given to fix.

Silverback has the advantage of being full steel and having sexual accuracy,but the price is high as per usual. JG is probably my favorite out of all the clones.

 

[Ian_Gere]

Yeah, airsoft.tiger111hk.com have the JG for $105.06 and we get a 5% supporters discount from them... tempting at approx £80 - even if hit by customs that'd be only £96.

Thing is the 900rnd hicap would have to go - the mechanism itself rattles, even if it successfully stops the BB's from rattling, and besides i've come a cropper by having a hicap in my sniper backup before - wound ready, or so i thought, went for the kill from 10m still unseen by the target... jam! So i'd have to buy a midcap, which is another $19.80 - but redwolf have the S&T for $155 which comes with the midcap so effectively i'd be paying $35 for a steel body...

Where have you seen the CYMA for sale?

 

[Unrustle_Thine_Jimmies]

I've spotted the CYMA on AirsoftGlobal,although CYMA is spelled wrong

http://www.airsoftglobal.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=19693

Looks to be a clone of the Silverback and not it's own thing like the JG.

It's a tough choice. JG have the best gearbox(IMO) but a crappy hopup and a plastic body,along with the strange hicap.

S&T has a steel body but internals are not as good as CYMA and JG and construction quality is iffy.

CYMA,going by previous experience have the best accuracy and hopup but suffer from a plastic body and QC on their gearboxes has not impressed me to say the least.

 

[Ian_Gere]

Thanks for that link Hmmm, it's even tougher because I've also found 2 people wanting to sell Silverback ones for reasonable-ish prices given the accessories that come with. I'm pretty impressed by the accuracy of the Silverback ones as standard - i probably would fit an H-nub anyway but apart from a plastic spring guide and bearingless piston head the gb internals are ok as stock - they even have a delayer on steel gears, and bearings not bushings, but the cylinder is unported which strikes me as a bit excessive for such a short barrel.

I'm also building a franken-beta-spetsnaz though, so I suspect I wont have anything just lying around in my bits box to swap with a Bizon - so anything I change would cost me actual cold hard... the franken-gun will not be short enough for the same role, in case you were thinking "why does he want 2 very short AK's?" - I've decided I don't like my PBS-4 on my AKS-74U - it's too heavy for 1 thing, but as the barrel on a short AK with an LR300 extendible folding stock and one of those tiny rails in place of the rear sight, it will look TDB IMO...

It's a major shame that the AKS-74U didn't work out as a sniper back up, but the stock doesn't stay folded properly and the mag gets in the way, even just a standard AK74 mag rather than the RPK mags I prefer in her. There's something I dont understand majorly fucked up with her also - she wont feed except from mags with the spring so powerful that keeping BB's in them at all is not easy

 

[Monty]

Ooooopppphhhh the Cyma one is proper tempting..

 

[Jolley]

i can see why it is appealing it looks awesome and unique but i would play safe with a glock and roni kit or a small mp7 or mp9 style smg could maybe even get away with g36c or a small mp5.

 

[Ian_Gere]

i can see why it is appealing it looks awesome and unique but i would play safe with a glock and roni kit or a small mp7 or mp9 style smg could maybe even get away with g36c or a small mp5.

Click to shrink...

None of which are Russian. This is the loadout:

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This is the primary weapon:​

 

[TacMaster]

I might be a little late to this thread but one of my mates (who's a real enthusiast for Soviet kit) has a Silverback PP-19, and it is l-o-v-e-l-y to fire and use. The mags fit in a Chicom style chest rig's pouches and it is indeed very accurate for a stock weapon.

It's lasted longer than his Dboys AKS-74U and he's run the PP-19 for about 3 years without problems.

 

[Ian_Gere]

I took the plunge and went for a Silverback one with 4 midcaps. Just paid £180 and will pay the remainder of £70 on Tuesday. Not a bad deal for either side. I think if I had pressed harder I could have scalped him, but tbh i'm not suffering from walletitis at the moment so there was no need.