Potential Site Location w/ map and photos

If F&O don't have people specifically guarding their paths and they don't have netting or a fence to prevent BB's entering the path, they must have written in their risk assessment that all marshals are trained to know where the paths are and to be vigilant for people using them during live skirmish.

Not to say that you should listen to me cos I'm so clever or anything, but I did a course on this sh!t in '99. TBH I forget the name of the qualification, but I remember the gist of the stuff i learned. It's one of those qualifications that is recognised and reduces the cost of insurance for sites when employees have it - a fake wax seal on the paper and everything woohoo!

 
Basically if you've done as much as you can within common sense such as placing a barrier and a warning sign and telling the players of the spot walkers to shout "stop" then you've done as much as you can really,

 
That's sort of right, Mike, but in this case the public have a legal right to walk down the path, regardless of any barriers you place in their way, and the law, which has a definition for this kind of thing which is "a moron in a hurry" (seriously), says that it is your responsibility to prevent an accident happening to a person who, regardless of how stupid it may be, are going about their lawful business...

 
But we also have the right to use the land if we have hired it, we wouldnt be stopping folk from using the footpath, we would be warning them of danger. If it was a high voltage train line and we put signs saying so and some numpty went and jumped all over them and died it would be their own fault but I've a friend who does health and safety so I might give him a ring see what he says.

 
The difference is that you can't lawfully climb over the fence onto a train line and the electricity cannot come through the fence and get you where you can lawfully walk.

 
The law requires that I do not block public rights of way. It is up to the person to use due diligence. There are very few instances where being shot up close with can cause anything other than superficial damage.

If there were no marshals and no intent of ceasing fire then I would be worried about hitting passers by. It's a low chance but you get insurance on the off chance.

It's like you are combining the fact that law states they have legal access through the land with the non-law that I somehow have to provide them safe passage.

Walker is spotted, game is halted, they are escorted until safe. Game resumes. I don't see the problem with this. Two sites I have been too explained this possibility although we had no walkers/bikers etc.

 
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What I'm telling you here is that you have to make a written assessment of the risks involved in the activity for which you are going to employ people and charge people to take part. Said risk involves that to the gen pub also. This will be considered by your insurance company's risk assessor when that company is deciding whether to insure you or not, for how much and at what premium.

You are responsible for the activity. The law provides that a moron in a hurry must be able to go about their lawful business without being subject to foreseeable risk as a result of your activities. Due diligence only comes into it for your employees whom have been made aware of the risks, the safety procedures, and the accident plan. But hey, by all means go right ahead as you are, it'll just end up costing you more for insurance than after your first proposal is rejected...

 
Yer you cant block public footpaths even tho they lead through private land, at my local site there is a couple of footpaths that lead directly through some of the areas and we sometimes get dog walkers. but like you said as soon as someone spots them 'guns down' is called and a marshal called to make sure the area is clear before continuing. seems to work for our site which has about the same amount of paths.

Also i dont know if the question has been asked but is there a specific insurance company for airsoft or one that has alot of dealings with them, maybe worth asking site owners?

 
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Ian_Gere said:
What I'm telling you here is that you have to make a written assessment of the risks involved in the activity for which you are going to employ people and charge people to take part. Said risk involves that to the gen pub also. This will be considered by your insurance company's risk assessor when that company is deciding whether to insure you or not, for how much and at what premium.

You are responsible for the activity. The law provides that a moron in a hurry must be able to go about their lawful business without being subject to foreseeable risk as a result of your activities. Due diligence only comes into it for your employees whom have been made aware of the risks, the safety procedures, and the accident plan. But hey, by all means go right ahead as you are, it'll just end up costing you more for insurance than after your first proposal is rejected...
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Sorry I misread/misunderstood what you previously wrote – I now realise you are talking about risk assessment and insurance rather than law.

 
Lancashire County Council got back to me. I was asking if they had any specific safety requirements and how they best recommend to move forward as I really did want their go ahead.

In their reply they mentioned absolutely nothing about safety but talked about Airsoft being a 'deterrent' to use public footpaths, ipso facto, a chargeable offense. I don't know whether there is any law behind this at all. Surely a deterrent is subjective!

Put it this way I personally have 3-4 acres of land. A public footpath through the farthest part. If I want to, I can prance around naked and poo on as many rocks as possible but if Mr. Norman Walker comes across my legal activities on my own private land (near a public footpath) and is 'deterred' then I committing an offense!?

I want to work with these guys and make sure everyone is relatively happy with the event so I will most likely drop the proposed site.

 
Found the following on the Durham County Council website faq section on public right of way- probably on others but this came up first on the google search. Although they do not cover airsofting they give an indication that should help. If you can use firearms over a public footpath then airsoft pellets should not be a problem.

Overall it probably comes down to what Ian was saying - have a written risk assessment which includes a player briefing where everyone is told to be aware of potential users of the footpaths. Make sue that the briefing tells then to call `cease fire' or similar as soon as walkers are spotted and then wait for a marshall to call `game on' before anyone starts firing again. If you also make it clear that anyone who fails to comply immediately with the `cease fire' call will be removed from the game/site then you should be OK (that is my view from reading this and not official legal advice).

I would guess that most sites have a `cease fire' rule for their insurance e.g. to protect a player who has his/her eye protection come off during a game.

Can firearms be used on a Public Right of Way?It is not an offence to shoot across a public right of way, although to do so may amount to a common law nuisance or intimidation, depending on the
circumstances. It is, however, an offence to discharge a firearm within 50 feet of the centre of a byway (or other route carrying public
vehicular rights) if it injures, interrupts or endangers any user of the route. (Highways Act 1980 section 16.1 )

It is also an offence to have a loaded air-weapon - or any other firearm whether loaded or not - together with ammunition in a public place, including any public right of way, unless the person has lawful authority or a reasonable excuse, such as a landowner or tenant shooting vermin on his own land. (Firearms Act 1968 section 19)

What if someone uses intimidation or threatening behaviour intended to deter use of a Public Right of Way?The use of intimidating behaviour with the intention of deterring the use of a Public Right of Way is possibly an offence and may amount to
obstruction of the path. In the first place, we will seek to address any underlying issues which have lead to the situation arising. We may then
issue a warning to the offender and involve the police as appropriate.
(Public Order Act 1986 section 4)

Who is responsible if I am injured because of dangers on a Right of Way?Owners and occupiers of land crossed by public rights of way can be liable for injuries caused to path users by their negligence. For example, if a
stile were to collapse under a walker, or if a path user were to be injured by an electric fence placed across a path, then the injured
party may pursue a claim against the occupier of the land. (Occupiers Liability Act 1957)

 
by reading that, i take away that like people say if there is good safety measures involved then there is no wrong doing, people at the site will not be using intimidating or threatening behaviour because as soon as a walker appears the guns are laid on the floor and thus negated, so there is no threat. so that sees off their argument.

so yer a safety briefing covering these point helps alot.

 
Yeah, well ^that Durham CC stuff^ makes it clear as mud, eh? "Possibly", "may"... I think that your best bet is to speak to your local coppers and see what their attitude is.

Without saying anything libellous, I grew up in Lancashire, Blackpool to be exact, so not the same kind of place at all, but under Lancashire CC just the same, and it was widely believed that you couldn't get anything which needed CC cooperation done without what I referred to above as "the judicious application of slush money". I expect that if you can get your local coppers on board, then you could approach the CC with a plan which involved a donation to a charity suggested by whomever deals with it...

To be perfectly clear here, I am not suggesting that you bribe anybody, nor that charitable donation is used as a cover for bribery. Merely that every right thinking person is well disposed towards projects which raise money for charity.

 
fair point, say you will donate to a violent crimes charity!! That your site educates people in the safe use of air weapons.

 
Yeah this is all wishy washy. The thing is, the County Council can only operate within the law just like myself and if the plan of the site being marshalled and calling ceasefires is upheld I am not breaking the law.

I just rang the firearms dept. of Lancashire Constabulary and he said "the reason that airsoft weapons go under the radar is because they cannot harm as rifles and shotguns can. As long as you shoot 50m away from any public highways, don't hurt anyone or scare them intentionally you are well within the law." – of course all of this is documented within the VCRA 2006.

Logically, I'm taking the precautions necessary in order to keep people safe and out of harms way which makes it law abiding. The County Council could make a fuss but in reality do very little. A real issue is if I was to piss off a particular group a walkers and they decided to stay in the area.

 
well i doubt that would happen, but its still private land so they can either leave or you phone the police for trespassing?? would ruin the game but i think its highly unlikely, just aslong as the battles arent raging down the path you should be fine, you could put up warning signs like you said earlier to advise people not to leave the path and if they see a game in play to advise them to flag down a member of staff in a safety jacket. the signs can me put up and removed only on skirmish days

 
Moose87 said:
well i doubt that would happen, but its still private land so they can either leave or you phone the police for trespassing?? would ruin the game but i think its highly unlikely, just aslong as the battles arent raging down the path you should be fine, you could put up warning signs like you said earlier to advise people not to leave the path and if they see a game in play to advise them to flag down a member of staff in a safety jacket. the signs can me put up and removed only on skirmish days
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This is exactly what I am thinking.

 
im sure once its running and people realise it happens there then you wont get any trouble

 
rather than a door bell you could go old school and just have a large bell people ring to alert the marshals of their presence.

Also any luck on diverting the footpath around the site?

 
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