Policing and Crime Bill 2015-16 - This is now (mostly) the law as part of the Policing and Crime Act 2017

I think because of that 'adaptable' clause they might be. I suppose it depends on how the insurers choose to interpret that.

 
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Was the dmr semi auto as it came out of the factory? If its a gun that was originally full auto no matter what you do to it, it stays in the eyes of the law full auto.

 
Yep, that's the worry. There're a very significant portion of people who own DMRs that're converted from full auto.

What I mean to say is - is an insurance company willing to take that risk when a site has almost no way of telling the two apart short of fully dismantling them?

 
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proffrink said:
As you all probably know, efforts to update police powers (amongst other things) are made almost yearly. This year we're seeing a bill introduced that specifically mentions 'airsoft' (rather than in the VCRA where airsoft guns fall under the category of 'RIFs', and are not really mentioned as being their own category).

Here's a link to the bill

Here's a link to the page on Parliament.uk - It's just completed its first reading in the house of commons on the 10th and allegedly had its second reading yesterday according to the minutes. Nothing on the website though.

And here's what you're interested in

Commentary

Everything said during readings must be written down, and you can view those comments here. As this bill was effectively just announced, there are no minutes regarding opinions or anything but maybe you'd like to read the paragraph on it anyway.

See the debate minutes here: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmhansrd/cm160210/debtext/160210-0001.htm#160210109000009

Key points

  • Airsoft guns will not be included in any of the actual firearms legislation made throughout this bill
  • Airsoft guns can only fire plastic BBs
  • Airsoft BBs must be plastic and must not exceed 6mm in diameter
  • Automatic airsoft guns have a new energy limit of ~370ft/s with a .2g BB
  • Semi or bolt action/everything else have a new energy limit of ~515ft/s with a .2g BB
Extra point: VCRA stays completely unchanged as far as RIFs are concerned. No change to the sale of imitation firearms.

My thoughts on the above

  • Great - no more grey area and a distinction between airsoft as a hobby and recreational shooting with actual firearms is a good thing as far as I'm concerned
  • This bit makes me worry as it says '...which only a small plastic missile [...] can be discharged' - right now there's nothing to stop anyone from putting aluminium or steel BBs in their GBBR and turning the NPAS off, turning it into something that resembles a firearm if powered by HPA. The bit that worries me though is how it says 'only' - to me this implies guns must only be able to shoot plastic, and this to me is poorly worded and unenforceable. Right now every airsoft gun can fire steel BBs if you wanted it to. The good news is that this puts more distance between airsoft and pellet/air guns
  • Why they chose 6mm I'm not sure. 8mm BB guns do exists, and how this will affect MOSCARTS that fire larger calibre projectiles is unknown - if they by default fall under the other parts of this bill because they're not classified as 'airsoft' then that's not really a good thing
  • 370ft/s with a .2g is actually very good for us, and allows sites more leeway in most cases
  • Having a limit of 515ft/s with a .2g on everything else is also a good call - I know of no sites that allow higher than 500 anyway
All-in-all: A little muddy but actually better than I was expecting.
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Would definitely like to have seen a "except for lead pellets" rather than "only plastic" on the whole BB thing. Because at the moment, I think that would criminalise bio BBs.

 
AshOnSnow said:
Would definitely like to have seen a "except for lead pellets" rather than "only plastic" on the whole BB thing. Because at the moment, I think that would criminalise bio BBs.
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It doesn't currently matter because the thing being described in the legislation does not currently exist anyway. :)

Plenty of things besides lead would be dangerous.

What is more appropriate would be a statement along the lines of "must be spherical with no diameter exceeding 6.2mm constructed of a material which does not exceed X g/cm3 and total projectile weight does not exceed 0.55 gram"

Of course density is not a be all and end all of projectile ballistic impact properties. They could add requirements such as "must not fracture at below X applied pressure" and "must fracture when X applied pressure is exceeded".

 
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Bio BBs are made of a plastic resin.just because it doesn't fit into the traditional 'plastics' category doesn't mean it's not a plastic.

 
Heavy weight BBs are more of I problem I guess as many use metal powder to get to the right weight.

Another unenforceable law though that's meant more for prosecution.

Interesting to see what insurance companies might make of it though.

 
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and that's when the highly paid lawyer steps in and proves with aid of several dictionaries that "plastic" is any material that can be deformed. could be clay, could be lead, could be a synthetic polymer.

 
I am a little concerned with the power limits that have been chosen. As you go around the world we have airsofters regularly using 400 fps as their automatic limit and a lot of rifles you would buy from the USA are fitted with 400 fps springs normally. I suspect there are plenty of sites here in the UK that could benefit from a 400 fps (The sandpit springs to mind since a lot of that is long range and very outside) and MEDs and I feel that 370 fps isn't based on the damage testing done as to what power strike breaks the skin (so the actual "lethality") nor is based on what is reasonable for the market as a whole.

We sold that limit too easily and it restricts the sort of sites that can exist.

 
BrightCandle said:
I am a little concerned with the power limits that have been chosen. As you go around the world we have airsofters regularly using 400 fps as their automatic limit and a lot of rifles you would buy from the USA are fitted with 400 fps springs normally. I suspect there are plenty of sites here in the UK that could benefit from a 400 fps (The sandpit springs to mind since a lot of that is long range and very outside) and MEDs and I feel that 370 fps isn't based on the damage testing done as to what power strike breaks the skin (so the actual "lethality") nor is based on what is reasonable for the market as a whole.

We sold that limit too easily and it restricts the sort of sites that can exist.
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Not really, how useful is automatic anyway? Of course it depends whether those limits will be applied as "capable of auto" or "when fired in auto".

 
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BrightCandle said:
I am a little concerned with the power limits that have been chosen.
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I've played for 6-7 years in a country where the limits are 400fps for auto, 500 for DMR 20m MED, 600 for boltie 20m MED. The mentality over there is to get as close to the limit as possible maybe somewhat over and then whine or cheat at the chrono to let you pass. :)

There is no difference in the gameplay. That +50 fps doesn't matter, because your opponent has that +50fps too. People still start shooting at eachother at the edge of their max range. That distance might be 5-10 steps further, but the gameplay is the same. Same tactics, same hit or miss rate, same feeling.

 
I'm slightly perplexed that nothing has been made of this news from UKAPU here at the forums.

https://www.facebook.com/UKAPU/posts/1101776923268610

Unless of course I'm in the wrong place..

The UKAPU and UKARA have made some great strides with supporting our sport and all credit is due.

I just with they would make more use of other channels for getting the information out rather than assuming the world and his wife are on Facebook, which they are not!

Anyway, it seems that (if things go ahead as stated) if you own a GBBR or HPA that is 'capable' of firing over 1.3J on full auto (most of them) that you could now be faced with a section 5 offence.

Maximum Joule rating for single shot/semi auto 2.5J !?

I hope there's going to be scope for some form of official 'derestriction/modification' to allow your GBBR to be licensed for use rather than having it destroyed. Or maybe it will affect import and sale only, not ownership..

I hope they manage to sort the gas and air issue out, I don't want to be limited to AEG.

Any thoughts?

 
They are still working on that point I believe regarding the gas issue

I think the right parties and making the right noises about it, if it means sticking npas in all rifles or some other jiggery pokery then so be it.

I'll await the ruling and sort out what needs to be done as all my guns are gas

 
im curious about their "readily convertible" rules, since every gun is that, and quick change springs even more so.

Apparently this is still under discussion

 
UKAPU have a Facebook page so its easy for them just to share the information on that platform.

Once it gets shared, then its spread easily around the many airsoft groups on FB. Its very easy to propagate information and photos on FB where forums tend to be more clunky.

Also Forums generally have less activity than FB IMHO.

I look at both medias and I generally find that the information on FB is announced there long before the airsoft mags and a lot of forum news only comes from stuff seen on FB first.

Im no particular lover of FB but I tend to use whichever medium works for me.

Jason8 said:
I'm slightly perplexed that nothing has been made of this news from UKAPU here at the forums.

https://www.facebook.com/UKAPU/posts/1101776923268610

Unless of course I'm in the wrong place..

The UKAPU and UKARA have made some great strides with supporting our sport and all credit is due.

I just with they would make more use of other channels for getting the information out rather than assuming the world and his wife are on Facebook, which they are not!

Anyway, it seems that (if things go ahead as stated) if you own a GBBR or HPA that is 'capable' of firing over 1.3J on full auto (most of them) that you could now be faced with a section 5 offence.

Maximum Joule rating for single shot/semi auto 2.5J !?

I hope there's going to be scope for some form of official 'derestriction/modification' to allow your GBBR to be licensed for use rather than having it destroyed. Or maybe it will affect import and sale only, not ownership..

I hope they manage to sort the gas and air issue out, I don't want to be limited to AEG.

Any thoughts?
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