No refund because it’s a “gun”?

[mike223]

I tried getting a refund through a claim on PayPal and got denied. They said it was not covered according to the user agreement. So I contacted PayPal and they said it was due to it being a gun, however I had another return that actually went through but I believe the seller initiated it and it didn’t have to be decided by PayPal.

Have any of you had returns through PayPal involving airsoft guns? Is it only if it has has the word gun in it? And does the seller have to initiate the refund without getting PayPal involved for it to work? I initially tried getting a refund by contacting the sller but he wanted me to cover the money he spent in insurance sending it to me and something else so in the end id be getting like 1/2-2/3 of my full refund. So I filed a claim, and unfortunately I got denied so im stuck with the gun and will have to fix up the issues I never knew about until I got it.

Im tempted to name drop on the hopup app where I bought it from but I probably shouldnt since idk if he knew or lied about the issues or not or somehow they were both done during shipping I will never know. And I don't wanna be petty or somehow get misunderstood and blacklisted or something but damn I feel a little ripped off lol.

 For example is it ok call it a toy or a replica and never mention anywhere the word gun or airsoft or something, will they refund me through a claim? Its too late now, but in the future if I ever need to return anything again.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

is this for the one you got that had a couple of issues?

as was mentioned in the last thread you generally can expect zero comeback for a secondhand sale if the item actually shows up and is in somewhat functional condition (generally pull the trigger and bb's come out the front is considered functional). the seller might voluntarily issue a refund depending on their disposition (and asking for compensation for postage wouldn't be out of the question- they don't want to be out of pocket) although i've been fortunate to never have had to deal with paypal disputes in the secondhand market (only issued a refund for a mistaken purchase which i hadn't actually sent the item yet)

less than perfect condition unfortunately is something that needs to be realistically expected when buying secondhand and is part of the reason why i strongly advocate people learn their own teching, so that you can buy in confidence knowing you can sort any issues the seller doesn't mention or even know about.

i doubt namedropping would have much effect on here, iirc you're US based so given this is predominantly a uk forum (with a few European members) we largely wouldn't be dealing with sellers from "across the pond", and as I mentioned in the other thread it sounds like the issues you had were the kind of thing someone who wasn't all that tech savvy would know about and exactly the kind of thing i'd expect to find on a secondhand gun (indeed i've seen some gremlins in various guns over the years)

generally when dealing with sending items, for example posting, i describe the package as "airsoft replica" or something along those lines to not use the word "gun" with those who might not understand the difference.

 

[Guest]

Everything @Adolf Hamster said, plus, in the U.K. PayPal has different rules.

Here, you cannot buy ANYTHING real steel related legitimately through PayPal, however toys are covered (U.K. legislation defines our guns as toys), I have had several airsoft disputes resolved quickly and painlessly through PayPal over the years

 

[THE FNG]

Likewise, I had one on this forum recently refunded via paypal after a gun arrived all smashed up, unknown if it was done by the postie accidentally or sent knowingly by the seller.

I had no issue with paypal.

 

[Tackle]

The OP is in the USA, so I highly doubt PayPal knocking back his claim was just the mention of "gun", more likely the seller has refused the refund & provided PayPal with information/evidence to back up his refusal ? 

Unless I've got it completely arse about face & PayPal USA are now taking an anti gun stance ? 

 

[Rogerborg]

Unless I've got it completely arse about face & PayPal USA are now taking an anti gun stance ? 

I would fully expect it.  They're a Californian company, and will be crawling with purple-haired social justice warriors.

AUP:

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/acceptableuse-full?&locale.x=en_US

"You may not use the PayPal service for activities that [...]  relate to transactions involving [...]  firearms"

Federal law suggests that they're not firearms for the purposes of the Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Section 921(a)(3): “(A) any weapon (including a starter gun), which will, or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon"

California, well, here are the penal code references if you really want to put in the time to argue the case.

https://airsoftaculous.com//airsoft-laws-in-california/

I'd just fix it up and get on with your life.

 

[Tommikka]

The PayPal rules vary internationally by region.  
For a while the PayPal rules internationally prevented almost anything gun related but were revised to what is legal in each region.

When in a dispute involving a PayPal payment you should raise the issue through the dispute process, the first stages are still just communicating with the seller but it sets the timeframe.

Its common for people to email back & forth then attempt a PayPal dispute finding out the time limit has expired 

There will only generally be rule problems once a PayPal human (or possibly PayPal AI) get involved, in which case they would withdraw from providing the protection services 

The likelyhood as mentioned above is that the seller refused the refund and complied with the process as far as PayPal were involved 

 

[mike223]

is this for the one you got that had a couple of issues?

as was mentioned in the last thread you generally can expect zero comeback for a secondhand sale if the item actually shows up and is in somewhat functional condition (generally pull the trigger and bb's come out the front is considered functional). the seller might voluntarily issue a refund depending on their disposition (and asking for compensation for postage wouldn't be out of the question- they don't want to be out of pocket) although i've been fortunate to never have had to deal with paypal disputes in the secondhand market (only issued a refund for a mistaken purchase which i hadn't actually sent the item yet)

less than perfect condition unfortunately is something that needs to be realistically expected when buying secondhand and is part of the reason why i strongly advocate people learn their own teching, so that you can buy in confidence knowing you can sort any issues the seller doesn't mention or even know about.

i doubt namedropping would have much effect on here, iirc you're US based so given this is predominantly a uk forum (with a few European members) we largely wouldn't be dealing with sellers from "across the pond", and as I mentioned in the other thread it sounds like the issues you had were the kind of thing someone who wasn't all that tech savvy would know about and exactly the kind of thing i'd expect to find on a secondhand gun (indeed i've seen some gremlins in various guns over the years)

generally when dealing with sending items, for example posting, i describe the package as "airsoft replica" or something along those lines to not use the word "gun" with those who might not understand the difference.

This is regarding a different gun, a g&g prk9. The issues are the charging rod seems to be bent (I assume that's why the battery hatch doesn't wanna latch in) and the battery hatch is very very difficult to get closed if im able to close it at all. Also there might be something wrong with the mosfet (yes its the poopy stock g&g one so thats probably why). Ive tried shooting it 2-3 times so far and in both semi and full auto the gun shoots one shot, then a burst of two, then one again and so on. I looked up a manual and then tried holding the trigger for 10 seconds and nothing changed.

As for the namedropping I meant on hopup, the platform I bought it on. However I probably could of done the return process better and I didnt quite understand what I was doing and escalated it to a claim while the dispute still had time on it. So Ill probably just suck it up and try to fix it.

Ill either say screw it and just take out the mosfet since I dont think I can fit a 11.1v lipo in the battery compartment. Or try to get something the seller mentioned to reset it or replace it with a different one. I asked in another forum and some said it could be due to crush damage and its malfunctioning so it might be toast. Plus ill have to find out where I can get my hands on a new charging rod and maybe a charging handle (or whatever its called on this gun) that was already broken off or I might just leave that part as is.

The OP is in the USA, so I highly doubt PayPal knocking back his claim was just the mention of "gun", more likely the seller has refused the refund & provided PayPal with information/evidence to back up his refusal ? 

Unless I've got it completely arse about face & PayPal USA are now taking an anti gun stance ? 

All I know is I received an email saying I was ineligible for a refund because it was not covered under the user agreement. I didnt know specifically what it was so I asked them and they told me it was because it was a gun. I said its an airsoft gun not a gun gun, but they said it still applies apparently.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

This is regarding a different gun, a g&g prk9. The issues are the charging rod seems to be bent (I assume that's why it doesn't wanna latch in) and the hatch is very very difficult to get closed if im able to close it at all.

the top cover (which i'm guessing is what you mean by the term "hatch") on ak variants often will be tight to close (read: need a little smack to get it seated), it's a good thing as you don't want it wobbling about, doubly so for a railed top cover such as the one on the prk9.

not entirely sure on what you mean by the term "charging rod"?

 

[mike223]

the top cover (which i'm guessing is what you mean by the term "hatch") on ak variants often will be tight to close (read: need a little smack to get it seated), it's a good thing as you don't want it wobbling about, doubly so for a railed top cover such as the one on the prk9.

not entirely sure on what you mean by the term "charging rod"?

I have a cyma ak and i have figured it out for that gun, however I have tried the same method and it still wont latch on this gun.

The only issue is I might struggle finding replacements or ill try contacting g&g directly and I assume ill get shafted on shipping fees.

This is the part I am referring to when I say the charging rod, thats what the seller referred to it as so I assumed that is what it was called. The one in my cyma ak is different so it will not work in this gun.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

I have a cyma ak and i have figured it out for that gun, however I have tried the same method and it still wont latch on this gun.

The only issue is I might struggle finding replacements or ill try contacting g&g directly and I assume ill get shafted on shipping fees.

This is the part I am referring to when I say the charging rod, thats what the seller referred to it as so I assumed that is what it was called. The one in my cyma ak is different so it will not work in this gun.

ahh yes, those can be a right pain in the proverbial.

when you say doesn't want to latch i'm guessing you mean the latch doesn't pop through the top cover?

if there's a grub screw holding the latch onto the wire guide, try loosening it, that can give the latch enough wiggle room to slide a bit more freely in the rails on the gearbox.

 

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

Those G&G fets are so unreliable it's impossible to say when they actually went.   

As for paypal, any mention of the word gun and you're sunk.  Airsoft toy - fine.  Airsoft gun - evil death device.

 

[mike223]

ahh yes, those can be a right pain in the proverbial.

when you say doesn't want to latch i'm guessing you mean the latch doesn't pop through the top cover?

if there's a grub screw holding the latch onto the wire guide, try loosening it, that can give the latch enough wiggle room to slide a bit more freely in the rails on the gearbox.

Yes that is what I meant. Also I got it!! Thank you for your help!

I am a grade a moron and there was a hex screw that was lose that was sitting right under the lip of the end of the latch that was quite lose. I cant believe I didn't try that before .?‍

Now the only worry is figuring out the mosfet issue which as I said before I might just not have one in the gun or replace it with a different one. Or somehow resetting it but I think id have to buy some sort of control unit. As well as maybe getting a flash hider and a new charging handle/ dust cover that exposes the hopup but it might be more trouble than its worth and I could care less about it lol. Also its one less thing to break.

Those G&G fets are so unreliable it's impossible to say when they actually went.   

As for paypal, any mention of the word gun and you're sunk.  Airsoft toy - fine.  Airsoft gun - evil death device.

Do you have a preferred mosfet?

Ill probably only use a 7.4 at least on this gun anyways and idk if I need an 11.1 for any of my other guns. I've heard the optical ones are more durable as nothing can get crushed besides wires if it works from light vs microswitches. But then you have to worry about them being finnicky with light getting in or reflecting. Also I believe ive heard ones like the perun hybrid and the gate titan/ aster are designed for 11.1v lipos so idk if that would be an issue if im using a 7.4v

I have a gate 3.2 merf I might throw in that is in an ics m4 as of now. But idk if I wanna go through the trouble if I sell this in the future Id like to possibly keep it as it is my first and only mosfet unless I get another. Plus ive never soldered or installed a mosfet before and I don't wanna ruin it, but id work up to it I guess. It sounds like I dont need the trigger contacts protection if im using a 7.4v but if I end up using a 11.1v sometimes. Also the features like the like better trigger response would be cool as well as maybe precocking but idk how those effect the durability and longevity of everything else inside the gun.

And yeah I think im just gonna let it go and see what I can do with the gun, its probably not worth the hassle fighting it.

Also does anyone know, would a diy mosfet have the benefit of better trigger response or am I just getting the trigger contact protection?

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Yes that is what I meant. Also I got it!! Thank you for your help!

I am a grade a moron and there was a hex screw that was lose that was sitting right under the lip of the end of the latch that was quite lose. I cant believe I didn't try that before .?‍

they can be tricksy things, some brands don't even have a grub screw which means you sometimes end up with the latch making a bid for freedom when opening them up

Now the only worry is figuring out the mosfet issue which as I said before I might just not have one in the gun or replace it with a different one. Or somehow resetting it but I think id have to buy some sort of control unit. As well as maybe getting a flash hider and a new charging handle/ dust cover that exposes the hopup but it might be more trouble than its worth and I could care less about it lol. Also its one less thing to break.

can't really help there, not sure if the g&g mosfets allow for mounting standard contacts (never really messed with any of the g&g stuff that has their mosfets)

 

[mike223]

they can be tricksy things, some brands don't even have a grub screw which means you sometimes end up with the latch making a bid for freedom when opening them up

can't really help there, not sure if the g&g mosfets allow for mounting standard contacts (never really messed with any of the g&g stuff that has their mosfets)

I think ive seen preuns that are made specifically for g&gs so that would make sense, so i would think the gate merf 3.2 wouldnt work, plus I wouldnt wanna mess with it. I think ill just take out the mosfet and go without one since I dont really need one if im using a 7.4 and for me its one less thing to worry about.

 

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

There is a click and forget Perun for G&Gs.  It sounds exactly what you are looking for.  

There may be better options, I am not really knowledgeable about them tbh.  I went for the Perun for its simplicity and ease of use.  

I do use Gate Nanos in a couple of rifs, they work well as a simple 'fet.  I don't know about wiring one to your loom.  

 

[Adolf Hamster]

I think ive seen preuns that are made specifically for g&gs so that would make sense, so i would think the gate merf 3.2 wouldnt work, plus I wouldnt wanna mess with it. I think ill just take out the mosfet and go without one since I dont really need one if im using a 7.4 and for me its one less thing to worry about.

if you're going to re-wire the gun to standard contacts (with the previously mentioned caveat that i dont know if the etu box is specific/can take standard contacts) it's not really much more work to add in an external mosfet, if you wire for the gate stuff like the nanoasr then it's the same plug and play contacts for something fancier like a warfet.

that said, whilst i would ordinarily advise against jumping straight in at the deep end of optical mosfets, the limited space in the prk9 might make a compelling argument for it if you want the fancy features. trying to stuff a warfet or other large external mosfet + a battery + connectors and associated wiring all under the top cover is gonna be a fun task.

 

[AirSniper]

... however toys are covered (U.K. legislation defines our guns as toys),...

Up until you do something stupid and it then becomes a firearms offence... That can be as simple as a 1.3 Joule rifle having a larger power spring in it that pushes it over the 1.3 Joule maximum for semi and full auto, it is then classed as a firearm.

Anyway, yes, toys is one way of describing them, I prefer to use SPORTS EQUIPMENT as that is essentially what airsoft is, an activity and interactive team sport, so your "Guns" are "Sporting Equipment" and a necessary piece of equipment for the sport. 

You know, "Sports equipment" sounds much nicer than "GUN".

I consider a gun to be any air rifle of 11.9ft lbs or higher and powder rounds, literally anything that can achieve 16 or more Joules is in my book, a gun (rifle)

I am pretty sure if you took your rif to a gun range and called it a gun, you would be laughed at and ridiculed and possibly kicked out. I know as one airgun club went ice cold on me for merely mentioning airsoft. for some reason in the shooting communities, airsoft is looked down upon because of the ease at which hardware is gotten hold of that idiots commit a crime with one and the shooting community suffer because of tighter controls. So understandable.

So anyway... REMEMBER FOLKS... they are not RIF's or Guns or Rifles but "SPORTING EQUIPMENT" and that should get around the paypal issue in some countries.

BTW, anyone with a heron problem... light em up with your rif, deter them from eating your entire fish stocks, they have been known to make off with kittens and puppies, plenty of videos on what they will attack and eat, so I have no love for Herons, aka egrits, nasty buggers, so the most humane way of moving them on is to left them have a taste of airsoft.

 

[Guest]

Go away

 

[BigAl]

The law isn't relevant, they are a private company and just like FB and You Tube they do not like guns.  IF you pay by paypal do not sate its a gun or anything to do with one, I used to put sporting goods or toys.  However if it is lost or you get done by the seller PAypal will not help as it is against there rules.

On a similar vein always remove valves from gas magazine or you package may be destroyed, with the valves in they are presurized container and as thus banned by all couriers, Royal Mail and Parcel Force.  Nine times out of ten you'll get away with it, but that tenth time can be very expensive.