New site - UCAP Gloucester Prison

fucking hell.

shame we can keep the thing. I mean it's 200 years old, how are you going to turn it into flats exactly anyway? 

 
Vulpiness said:
It's a 18th century building with listed status, you can't buldoze it. That the whole point of listed buildings. 
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Not necessarily true. 

You can demolish it, as long as what you build in its place reuses the majority (90% say) of the original building materials.

 
Vulpiness said:
so you have a source on that for me mate?

 
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No I don’t. All I can find is information saying you can rebuild it with like for like materials built in a time appropriate way if it is damaged beyond economic repair.

I remember speaking to an estate agent about 8 years ago(looking at a grade 1 listed building in need of renovation), and I believe that is probably where I heard that from. And I think he possibly interpreted it differently to how it is written. At the time I believed him, like I would believe any professional in their own profession, nowadays, not so likely.

 
Prisce said:
No I don’t. All I can find is information saying you can rebuild it with like for like materials built in a time appropriate way if it is damaged beyond economic repair.

I remember speaking to an estate agent about 8 years ago(looking at a grade 1 listed building in need of renovation), and I believe that is probably where I heard that from. And I think he possibly interpreted it differently to how it is written. At the time I believed him, like I would believe any professional in their own profession, nowadays, not so likely.
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I mean you can take down and rebuild old buildings, the glasgow school of art is having that done as we speak after it's second fire, they weren't even done repairing from the first! 

But I think flattening a listed site for new buildings is beyond the question unless it's grade 3 and a saftey risk, you're just not going to get planing permission. 

Cheers for checking for me bud. 

Course law could have changed in the alst 8 years. 

 
When listed buildings need to be repurposed, many times they just keep the original external walls and demolish everything inside and rebuild. 

 
Albiscuit said:
They will likely leave the outside wall/features standing and knock down everything else.
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I hope they can't do that. What they could do is remove the internal cell walls and brick up the doors to make them into bedrooms and bathrooms, and add additional interior walls for a central communal hallway and a kitchen/sitting room area. 

To be fair, we only need 1 wing to survive to get the same effect educationally, they are identical no?

 
Vulpiness said:
I hope they can't do that. What they could do is remove the internal cell walls and brick up the doors to make them into bedrooms and bathrooms, and add additional interior walls for a central communal hallway and a kitchen/sitting room area. 

To be fair, we only need 1 wing to survive to get the same effect educationally, they are identical no?
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I very much doubt anyone would want to live in a converted prison they way your talking. 

There is a HUGE difference between specifications needed for housing and a prison built in 1840!!

I am not sure what you mean by the last line either?!

 
Albiscuit said:
I very much doubt anyone would want to live in a converted prison they way your talking. 

There is a HUGE difference between specifications needed for housing and a prison built in 1840!!

I am not sure what you mean by the last line either?!
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People live in tower blocks with communal unsound proofed hallways and pay £800 a month. I think you vastly over estimate the quality of the housing market. 

Blue are new walls, black existing ones, and red destoryed ones, obviously the wing and the amount of cells/flats are seriously truncated but regardless. 

The interior, all 3 wings of the prison are identical to each other in layout. Meaning 2 of the 3 wings are redundant internally for historical purposes.  

View attachment 41954

 
Vulpiness said:
People live in tower blocks with communal unsound proofed hallways and pay £800 a month. I think you vastly over estimate the quality of the housing market. 
 
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Because the blocks were purposely built for homes, a Victorian era prison was not. Just putting in utilities to each and every room will be a nightmare. 

Plus it makes more sense to knock it all down, plan out a better space and have towers and blocks which will ultimately give more homes!

 
Albiscuit said:
Because the blocks were purposely built for homes, a Victorian era prison was not. Just putting in utilities to each and every room will be a nightmare. 

Plus it makes more sense to knock it all down, plan out a better space and have towers and blocks which will ultimately give more homes!
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it's not Victorian, it's Georgian, there are already utilities in every room thanks to the prison reform process, other than the new rooms that will be created. 

You can build homes anywhere, you can't build provenance can you? 

 There are 300 cells, which would create 100 homes, and 200 sleeping spaces.

Frankly, they're making it into flats that are unaffordable, so what's the point of acting like this will make even a dent in the housing market? 

 

 
Vulpiness said:
it's not Victorian, it's Georgian, there are already utilities in every room thanks to the prison reform process, other than the new rooms that will be created. 

You can build homes anywhere, you can't build provenance can you? 

 There are 300 cells, which would create 100 homes, and 200 sleeping spaces.

Frankly, they're making it into flats that are unaffordable, so what's the point of acting like this will make even a dent in the housing market? 

 
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Im not going to argue over a couple of years...

It could create a lot of space yes, but building on a site as big as that building tower upwards would create a hell of a lot more, which is always the goal for a developer. It will take one ballsy developer/architect to say hold up lets work with what we have and make so much less money and end up with something that look awful. I certainly wouldnt want to live in a 1840s prison!! 

And I agree, the housing policies in this country are a joke, the only people who benefit are the private landlords, developers and the local mps who get greased to approve these things.

 
Albiscuit said:
Im not going to argue over a couple of years...

It could create a lot of space yes, but building on a site as big as that building tower upwards would create a hell of a lot more, which is always the goal for a developer. It will take one ballsy developer/architect to say hold up lets work with what we have and make so much less money and end up with something that look awful. I certainly wouldnt want to live in a 1840s prison!! 

And I agree, the housing policies in this country are a joke, the only people who benefit are the private landlords, developers and the local mps who get greased to approve these things.
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1790's. 

If you need a tower, there are many many areas nearby you could build it, that don't eradicate 200 odd years of history, which frankly is more important than someone making a profit. 

 
It's FUGLY. Who the hell would want to live in that? Nothing is forever and not everything is worth saving.

 
Vulpiness said:
1790's. 

If you need a tower, there are many many areas nearby you could build it, that don't eradicate 200 odd years of history, which frankly is more important than someone making a profit. 
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Well what I read said it was rebuilt in 1840, either way its highly impractical and going backwards and forwards over the housing issue and whether or not we should house families in an old prison is more than slightly off topic :D   So for that reason im out!!

 
Immortal said:
It's FUGLY. Who the hell would want to live in that? and not everything is worth saving.
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I'm sure I could (eventually) find someone to say the same about your favorite whatever, it's a matter of perspective, personally I rather like it, it would make a wonderful factory. 

The reason we preserve old building has nothing to do with their aesthetic value, athough this is an example of the architectural linage that gave us buildings like Buckingham palace, battersea power station, and a multitude of others in the "decorative brutality" catergory.
It's doesn't even have to be pretty, it's supposed to be striking, compelling, imposing. 

This prison saw the execution of notable prisoners, political dissidents of the revolutionary era, suffragists, abortionists, gays, and the founder of shin fein. 

It predates the police 

prisons are not ordinary homes or places of work, things happen in them,  interesting people are in them, and every prison, reflects not merely a place to sleep, or east, but a way of life, and a culture, of which otherwise, there is no architectural record. 

Albiscuit said:
Well what I read said it was rebuilt in 1840, either way its highly impractical and going backwards and forwards over the housing issue and whether or not we should house families in an old prison is more than slightly off topic :D   So for that reason im out!!
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Extensively rebuilt, but the central stone goal remains largely intact.

But I respect your decision to withdraw from the discussion. 

 
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