Mws Vs Tipmann Vs Wolverine Mtw

[sonofsammo]

I wish I had never sold my MWS. The plan was to use the cash to buy new pews on my FAC when it arrived. But then covid well and truly put the kybish on that progressing.
So now I'm hankering after something to mess around with and ultimately, obviously, skirmish with.
I've got an SRS for long range and a Vector for closer up - so need something for mid to DMR type range play.
And my old MWS fulfilled that role beautifully.
So the question is - do I just get another MWS and build the same again?
Or would a Tippmann or MTW be more better?

I've never seen either up close, so have no idea how they compare in build quality to the MWS.
For anyone that has one - would you recommend it? What's good? What's not?
Any help spending (or saving) my money would be most welcome.
TIA ? 

 

[alxndrhll]

I'd tend to advise away from the MTW if it's more for tinkering, mostly because internally you only really have the hop/barrel to play around with. And even then it's largely regarded as, stick with it stock for a bit and if you feel the need throw a PDI barrel and either a Maple Leaf or G&G Green bucking in it (depending on which version you get adding either a modded Maxx hop unit, or Wolverines Phoenix hop unit in is also an option, but the stock unit is great).

If it's for more of a project to put some time into the MWS seems like it affords a few more options to play around with. Don't get me wrong, I love my various MTWs but outside chucking external accessories on them there isn't a huge amount to do with them!

 

[sonofsammo]

I'd tend to advise away from the MTW if it's more for tinkering, mostly because internally you only really have the hop/barrel to play around with. And even then it's largely regarded as, stick with it stock for a bit and if you feel the need throw a PDI barrel and either a Maple Leaf or G&G Green bucking in it (depending on which version you get adding either a modded Maxx hop unit, or Wolverines Phoenix hop unit in is also an option, but the stock unit is great).

If it's for more of a project to put some time into the MWS seems like it affords a few more options to play around with. Don't get me wrong, I love my various MTWs but outside chucking external accessories on them there isn't a huge amount to do with them!

By messing around, I meant more shooting in the garden than taking to bits lol
Any info you could offer on the MTW platform would be much appreciated (not that anywhere seems to have them in the UK at the moment!).

 

[leadly]

My mates got a couple at his shop!

https://www.ukfob.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=119_158

 

[alxndrhll]

By messing around, I meant more shooting in the garden than taking to bits lol
Any info you could offer on the MTW platform would be much appreciated (not that anywhere seems to have them in the UK at the moment!).

Haha, fair. My brain always seems to attach 'something to mess around with' as 'something to tinker on while we can't play'.

TLDR - Performance wise the MTW is the best RIF I've ever used, maintaince is very easy, but the tank and line will be an issue for some... alongside the price of both getting a HPA setup and the cost of the RIFs themselves.

I'll breakdown the engines first:

• Inferno Gen 2 - Controlled by an FCU so needs a battery, programmable in terms of dwell, rate of fire. Operating pressure is 60-140 PSI.
  
• Reaper Gen 2 - Being honest, I have no idea about the details of this engine. I personally see it as a choice between the Reaper M and the Inferno Gen 2 so have never looked into what the Reaper Gen 2 actually offers.
  
• Reaper M - Mechanical so no battery needed, semi only. Operating pressure of 80-140 PSI.
  

They have 3 versions available:

• 'Cheapest' The 'Billet series' which is the OG one, upper receiver is pretty much naked on the right hand side so no forward assist or dust cover. Comes with an M-lok rail (7", 10 and 13/14" options available), can be fitted with a variety of the engines and runs on the Spartan board (you adjust your FCU settings using the trigger). Comes with the original plastic black hop unit, engine retention clip and feed tube.
  
• 'Middle Ground' The 'Milspec series' new release toward the tail end of last year. Conventional AR receivers so has the forward assist and dust cover (worth noting the dust cover doesn't close without modification).  Comes with a quad rail (10" only I believe)  and the Reaper M engine. Comes with the fancy Phoenix hop unit and an updated engine retention clip/feedtube (tldr, people kept breaking the old design of feedtube so they changed it on the new models, the Billet still uses the old one).
  
• 'Big Bucks' The 'Forged series' new release toward the end of last year. Conventional AR receivers so has the forward assist and dust cover (worth noting the dust cover doesn't close without modification).  Comes with an M-lok rail (10" and 14" versions available) and the Inferno Gen 2 engine, runs on the Premium FCU board so a separate board with it's own buttons rather than having to program the FCU with the trigger. Comes with the fancy Phoenix hop unit and an updated engine retention clip/feedtube.
  

I've only used the Inferno Gen 2 personally, largely due to operating pressures and the fact I run mine at the standard limits rather than as a DMR (turns out I hate minimum engagement distances). On the various groups surrounding the platform I see far more issues with the Reaper engines than the Inferno ones, how much of that is user error and lack of research versus issues with the engines themselves I have no idea. I'll leave a chart below regard AEG/real steel parts compatibility. All this is very much a brief overview.

View attachment 68358

Worth noting that a variety of hop units can be installed on it, but require some modification to fit and hinder the ability to strip the RIF quickly. Entirely not worth it in my eyes, the stock plastic unit is fantastic. I haven't been able to test the Phoenix but reports seem to be that it's very good once you've taken the time to tune it properly.

I've tried to be as concise as I can, but realistically you're best off doing some research of your own because trying to cover entire product lines via a forum post is... challenging haha.

 

[leadly]

I started a thread for my MTW, it involves some of my ramblings and reasoning behind why I chose what I did.... eventually!!

I'll put a bit more content into it now I've got my VSR finished again.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

i'd be kind of inclined to say the mws.

considering you already know the performance is good enough for your liking and the only reason to go hpa is if you want either better performance, or a gun that works in winter (caveat i'm saying that having never tried an mws in winter)

 

[alxndrhll]

i'd be kind of inclined to say the mws.

considering you already know the performance is good enough for your liking and the only reason to go hpa is if you want either better performance, or a gun that works in winter (caveat i'm saying that having never tried an mws in winter)

Having had both I'm inclined to agree. Either way it's a decent chunk of change, if you've owned and know you liked one of your options it's a no brainer to me that, that is the one you go for.

I found myself in the decision of MWS versus MTW recently. I'm sticking with the MTW largely because of the drop off on return on investment for selling out of HPA is too severe a hit for me personally. Had that not been a factor I would have gone with the MWS, with the main reason being ditching the backpack (the tank and line don't themselves bother me at all, but I miss running a 'slick back'). The MTW has CO2 and tank stocks available, but something never mentioned with those two options is the restrictions they put on your length of pull. Not a big deal at all for many, but I've run my AR stocks at the same length for years... changing that feels decidedly weird and uncomfortable.

I also got lucky and snagged a backpack which is exactly what I've been after for carrying my tank on eBay, which cemented my decision for the time being. In case anyone wants to ask what it is, it's a Source 10L assault pack... they've been discontinued for a while (as far as I'm aware), hence the 'luck'.

TLDR - Following 'Any help spending (or saving) my money would be most welcome.' If you're not already invested in HPA, go with the MWS imo.

 

[sonofsammo]

i'd be kind of inclined to say the mws.

considering you already know the performance is good enough for your liking and the only reason to go hpa is if you want either better performance, or a gun that works in winter (caveat i'm saying that having never tried an mws in winter)

Having had both I'm inclined to agree. Either way it's a decent chunk of change, if you've owned and know you liked one of your options it's a no brainer to me that, that is the one you go for.

I found myself in the decision of MWS versus MTW recently. I'm sticking with the MTW largely because of the drop off on return on investment for selling out of HPA is too severe a hit for me personally. Had that not been a factor I would have gone with the MWS, with the main reason being ditching the backpack (the tank and line don't themselves bother me at all, but I miss running a 'slick back'). The MTW has CO2 and tank stocks available, but something never mentioned with those two options is the restrictions they put on your length of pull. Not a big deal at all for many, but I've run my AR stocks at the same length for years... changing that feels decidedly weird and uncomfortable.

I also got lucky and snagged a backpack which is exactly what I've been after for carrying my tank on eBay, which cemented my decision for the time being. In case anyone wants to ask what it is, it's a Source 10L assault pack... they've been discontinued for a while (as far as I'm aware), hence the 'luck'.

TLDR - Following 'Any help spending (or saving) my money would be most welcome.' If you're not already invested in HPA, go with the MWS imo.

I should have mentioned that if I get an mws I'll be running it as hpa, with a drum mag again.

So the whether or not to hpa is moot, as I'll need all the kit again.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

I should have mentioned that if I get an mws I'll be running it as hpa, with a drum mag again.

So the whether or not to hpa is moot, as I'll need all the kit again.

ahh, now that changes the game a tad.

in which case i'd say the tippmann, it's like an hpa tapped gbbr but you just use normal mags and reload when you feel like.

 

[alxndrhll]

If you're running a tank and line whatever you go with I have a hard time not recommending a Billet series MTW. I've had two Billets and they've run great (both second hand), I picked up a Forged when they first came out because the quality of life changes seemed ace and I like having the 'proper' upper receiver. I can't recommend it though, not because I've had any issues thus far, just purely on the fact that Tier 3, Tier 4 and eventually lockdown happened so I haven't done any proper testing or played with it yet. I don't tend to give any recommendations/advice until I actually believe what I'm saying rather than allowing the 'hype' to overcome me.

Worth noting I have zero knowledge or experience regarding the Tippman, though I can tell you anecdotally that I've seen a fair few go from the Tippman to the MTW and at least in terms of performance the MTW seems to be seen as an upgrade. Take that as you will, as I say, anecdotal.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Worth noting I have zero knowledge or experience regarding the Tippman, though I can tell you anecdotally that I've seen a fair few go from the Tippman to the MTW and at least in terms of performance the MTW seems to be seen as an upgrade. Take that as you will, as I say, anecdotal.

the main advantage the tippmann seems to have is recoil (although maybe not all models?) and no electrics. i've heard nothing but good things from their owners.

although it wouldn't surprise me if a well dialed in electromechanical setup had superior bb lobbing performance.

 

[alxndrhll]

the main advantage the tippmann seems to have is recoil (although maybe not all models?) and no electrics. i've heard nothing but good things from their owners.

although it wouldn't surprise me if a well dialed in electromechanical setup had superior bb lobbing performance.

Aye, fingers crossed someone that's used both a TIppman and an MTW can weigh in. I always find trying to be 'useful' in a comparison thread somewhat difficult because it's not a simple case of 'get this because it's generally regarded a good option'.

I expect the MWS would require more maintenance than an MTW, though the maintenance on both is very easy. MWS has the benefit of recoil, but you're somewhat restricted to a drum mag to run it with HPA. With appropriate hop tuning I imagine performance is pretty equivalent, the MTW possibly more consistent because of the nature of how the system works and the way alignment is maintained. The MWS would end up needing more things to be replaced over time, but nothing overly expensive. Main consideration there is supply given how impacted stock levels are at present.

That's about as much of a relatively informed comparison as I could give on those, though a decent portion of it is based on suspicions of using an HPA'd MWS formed from having used an MWS, and HPA... but never the two together.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

it's not a simple case of 'get this because it's generally regarded a good option'.

amen to that.

they're all good options, they're just slightly different enough to the point where it's pretty much personal preference.

 

[sonofsammo]

I expect the MWS would require more maintenance than an MTW, though the maintenance on both is very easy. MWS has the benefit of recoil, but you're somewhat restricted to a drum mag to run it with HPA. With appropriate hop tuning I imagine performance is pretty equivalent, the MTW possibly more consistent because of the nature of how the system works and the way alignment is maintained. The MWS would end up needing more things to be replaced over time, but nothing overly expensive. Main consideration there is supply given how impacted stock levels are at present.

That's about as much of a relatively informed comparison as I could give on those, though a decent portion of it is based on suspicions of using an HPA'd MWS formed from having used an MWS, and HPA... but never the two together.

Thanks for the answers so far chaps.
I've run an MWS on hpa and it was ace, hence why I wish I'd never got rid of it - benefit of hindsight and all that!
But I've never used the other two. It was upgraded, so had an orga barrel, 6g nub and modify tan rubber and with that set up ran on .36s.
I know the build quality of the MWS is exemplary, but have never seen the other two in the flesh, so have no idea on how they compare.
As far as parts for the MWS - you're right, bits break - and they're going to be more of a pain in the ass to get. 
But that being said, I presume that will also apply to Tippmann and Wolverine?
The only thing I didn't like about the MWS with the drum was the extra weight the drum gave. And it had the same capacity as a high cap @350 rounds.
What are the mags like for the Tippmann / Wolverine? Are either proprietary? And what's the capacity?
 

 

[alxndrhll]

Not that I’ve ever had to change any out but the main thing you’d likely need to swap out would be o-rings. I got a full replacement set with my Forged, can’t speak for the Billet as mine were both second hand. As for the electronics the most frequent thing I’ve seen need replacing is the switch which controls the selector, folks more competent than me solder a new micro switch on others replace the board entirely (no idea of the cost). Outside of those the only other thing which comes to mind is the feed tube for the Billet, I honestly have no idea how folks break them... but they do.
 

If you get a new one and you register it Wolverine have a warranty and they seem to ‘look after you’ pretty well assuming you haven’t gone out of your way to break something. Again, this is anecdotal, I haven’t had to replace or repair anything on mine.

If you want the ‘bolt stop’ (it’s literally just a micro switch, no tactile/mechanical feedback... very much intended for muscle memory training more than it is ‘simulation’) you’ll need to use the Wolverine mags (120 round mid caps) which are proprietary. If you don’t care about the ‘bolt stop’ then a bunch fit and feed. I’ve personally used the Wolverine ones, PTS EPMs and PTS Pmags. EPMs needed a bit of electrical tape to make them fit snug. Reports from others are that the EPM-1s fit and feed fine, most stating they fit better than the original EPMs... but I’m also aware the jury seems to be out on if the EPM-1s are actually any good and I’m not in a position where I particularly need/care to find out for myself.

 

[Mike W]

Hi,

    Just to weigh in and for some reference... I own a MTW... a tippmann and a p* fusion engine. All 3 are awesome for different reasons. 

1. Tippmann.  Awesome if you like to have recoil. I run a homemade tdc with home made nubs on flat hopped GG green. Also have light the trigger response and add a 3/4 spacer to buffer tube. . I run an EDGI widebore in this.This thing is soo much fun and scares the crap out of people as I have a sound hog on it. Range wise once the mechs warmed up it is not that far off my other guns,. I have lowered to ROF to about 20 on it . I wont go into externals as I have changed nearly everything that comes with it.

2. MTW.  so light and a joy to use once you set the gun up but does take some tweaking of the settings to get it to run right . Mine runs a maxx unit modified to take my home made nubs and a flat hopped prommy purple. prommy stainless tightbore. Once set up this thing is just awesome and soo light when using . I have added a supressor to it and you can hardly here it now. Externally , I have changed everything that can be changed or added to lol. oh and its air consumption is really good as well.

3. P* fusion. I have had this thing for years and it never gets old. I modified it internally and externally over the years. It started life as a U.S import with a G&P body.

I tend to take one normal hpa and my tippy with me and alternate between them throughout the day depending on whether I want  recoil or not.

Just for reference. I run 2 carbon tanks and fill them to 4k psi. I can go through both tanks in a day if am having too much fun ...

Hope this helps with some of your question.

I wont add anything about the MWS as not a fan of 30 rounds mags. But the gun does shoot very well