Making the Most of a Starter AEG

[Old Guy]

I now have my first Airsoft rifle! I have bought an as-new Cyma cm501 and it looks very impressive (far better made than I was expecting) but being 2nd hand I doubt that the warranty means much so I can open it up (help!) and tinker. I have not shot it, at time of writing, so I shall anticipate a poor(ish) performance. So far I have polished the barrel and I am waiting for some Geoff's .25s an some Scorpion .20s,  just 1000 of each for testing.

Can the members give me one or two tips on making the best of a low-cost AEG,  please? Is there any simple (can't stress that enough) thing that will make it a better experience to shoot?

Thanks.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

It depends entirely on how the thing performs as-is and what your expectations of performance are.

Give it a bit of a blast as-is and if you find any specific issues then let us know and we can help address them.

 

[Sitting Duck]

It shouldn't be a bad first starter AEG

but being s/hand - who knows what 1 careful owner (and 3 terrible owners) is like

It is "fixable" to a certain extent if not running too great but fingers crossed still plinks OK

As said - depends how it shoots - you did ya bit to clean barrel etc...

Now depending how it fires....

Only thing you might wish to consider at "some point" - if you might get into this pew pew

is a better battery & charger plus "perhaps" soldering on some deans if you are competent at soldering

As said - don't rush out splashing out money just yet

see how it goes and if you enjoy your toy gun blah blah blah.....

ONLY then, might you look to consider a better battery/charger than what was supplied with gun by default

If you got a spare battery or LiPo battery & charger already then - RESULT

but don't go nutz buying these JUST YET, though at some point you might wish to consider LiPo & Charger

This is for the gun to add a bit of zest and just all round updating to more modern battery over Nimah supplied

If you got crappy EU wall plug thick as shit (ie: not a smart charger)

if you got that with gun, then rather than look to get a smarter nimah charger at some point...

just consider going to LiPo than spend it on Nimah batteries & charger etc...

BUT - don't fret about this yet, just saying if you at some point want to invest a little bit of money

I'd probably suggest making the jump to LiPo and perhaps deans if you can solder

(Deans is not an absolute must, but if you can solder then another consideration perhaps)

These items you can take with you on your next gun if you should become hooked

but really just get plinking with what you got already and see how you go first

Not a bad choice, wish my first few guns were as fairly decent as the budget Cyma M4's

Yes they are cheap, but not complete crap like many of my first cheapo starter guns

 

[CrackCommandoUnit1972]

What sort of budget have you got?

Set a budget and stick to it. Otherwise you could end up spending money (for a minimal performance increase) that would be better put towards the cost of a higher end gun.

 

[PopRocket123]

AEGs are notoriously difficult to get the best performance out of them and pretty much every trick involves time and a certain amount of technical know-how. What you can do for now at least is the dental floss mod on the bucking, reshim the gears and set the motor height, polish the cylinder and carefully put it all back together with good quality grease. If you have access to a Dremel you'll also want to adjust the AoE. None of these are particularly difficult to do but they do take time and a few attempts to get right. I'd also recommend trying .28g ASG Devils and see if your hop can lift them. If they don't you can see about trying different buckings.

 

[kasaran]

Id be sure to have a chrono before doing major.  Gives you a before and after benchmark and makes sure you know its site legal.  Always slightly perturbed by aoe suggestions. I guess i go by this

 

[Old Guy]

For a guy who has never even shot a single BB yet, this is a head-full! I would have tested the M4 today but the weather had been pants.

I'm looking at the rifle trying to figure out how to even open the casing let alone altering the Angle of Engagement(?) of the motor. I watched a shimming video and, well; that's bit further down the track.

Tell me chaps; I see buckings with 50, 60, 70 degree nubs. How does this affect the hop? And while we're here, what is the optimum for a rifle like mine if that can be stated?

Thanks for all the replies. I am willing to learn all I can about this hobby but sometimes it might as well be in Greek. Deans? I'll Google it!

 

[Adolf Hamster]

The degree rating on buckings is an indication of the rubber compound, if you think soft/medium/hard compounds on car tyres its the same idea. Lower the degree softer the bucking. A softer bucking will grip the bb better and therefore allow easier spinning of heavy ammo, but can leak on higher fps builds and will wear out faster.

When it comes to hop i'd say if the stock isnt good enough then drop in a pdi w hop with standard nub or maple leaf macaron and an omega nub. When well installed its all the performance a sane person needs and a crapload easier than messing around with rhops.

As kasaran says chronograph is a good investment, lets you know your gun is still fieldable and can also give an indication of how good the compression is.

Aoe is a tricky one, there is sound logic behind adjusting it on some guns, but its more important to ensure the pick-up of the piston is smooth which doesnt always require shaving teeth off. Certainly the ones i've seen negative rage about have been far too overdone in the name of chasing speed (which is an endeavour in spending increasing amounts of money to piss people off)

Deans are a type of battery connector, pretty common in the rc car world and are much less prone to melting than the tamiya connectors airsoft guns for some ungodly reason still come with. The gun will work without changing to deans, but they are better (theres some debate about mini deans/xt60 etc but the root of it is almost anything is better to use than tamiya)

Ultimately when it comes to improving airsoft guns there's everything from the old wives tales that actually work to the latest fad product of the month that expensively acheives bugger all. These things are built only to a loose standard and something that may very well be an excellent product and the dogs danglies in gun x may well make gun y shoot worse.

 

[Sitting Duck]

Think the AoE issue is down to OVER - CORRECTING AoE mostly

Way too many people have way over corrected it with the position at 12 o'clock

also if trying to build say a DMR you do not want to rob yourself of say 3~4mm stroke if relying on max volume

(I could perhaps think of other instances on when you should avoid going nutz correcting AoE)

Sorbo - well I still feel a softer material is preferable over a fairly hard rubber/neoprene pad

But Sorbothane is quickly detroyed so needs the sorbo topped with a min 2mm thick neoprene to protect it

(1mm neoprene just doesn't cut it)

Personally I tend to use silicone...

https://www.airsoftsniperforum.com/43-longrange-aegs/9062-guide-cylinder-head-damper-remold-bye-bye-sorbo.html

yet is not a 5 min fix as you wait 24/48 hours for it to cure properly

BUT to each their own as they say

Luke actually says I think in high speed setup then maybe, but not really for a std UK AEG @ 320fps

The question is if it is perhaps an option on a high speed build, then why not anyway ???

I'm not getting into that is wrong, this is correct

or he's right/wrong - I'm 101% certain all of us do stuff differently and we may not always fully agree 200% always

Think an impact absorbing material is not unwise, I still correct AoE but less correction than I first started with

The material absorbs "some" impact and the position alters slightly but nowhere near 12 o'clock like some examples

I'll still at times use ptfe, but only around the head, not inside and trimmed very very neatly

just to improve the seal & I have had snug double o-ring heads weep slightly without the tape

If re-using stock cylinder head coz nozzle is a tight fit on other heads, then most certainly gotta use ptfe

As said not getting into whose right/wrong but more of YOU making that decision based upon circumstances

your OWN judgement, plus what you might wish to try and see for YOURSELF if something works or not

We ALL have slightly different views/opinions or differ slightly in our technique/methods

Same as nigh on everything in life, be it a group of skilled craftsmen

I'll guarantee you get say 6 builders (or carpenters), they will approach the same project slightly differently

I think I've mentioned I do some shit that many might think WTF ya doing that for etc...

But it doesn't matter, it is my/your gun so it is up to the person what/how they do stuff

Think the main point of the clip is not to over correct and use half inch of sorbo thaaaannnnneeeeeee

Though on a high speed/stress build you might consider it perhaps

(but again, if it "might" be deemed acceptable on higher build then why not (if done correctly) for almost any build)

You might not need it on a 320fps so much, but why radius

why reshim or all sorts of stuff - coz we feel it helps & it is OUR choice

Point is don't go nutz on correcting, padding out crap, applying half a reel of ptfe, over greasing etc.....

(you get the idea - too much tinkering might not be an improvement)

Do the stuff that YOU feel is vital and slap it back together and just use it

(it will mostly go tits up at some point, so don't overthink it - note to oneself perhaps but I'm pretty sad at times)

PS - not saying ANYBODY is right/wrong, just saying the crap we do is all down to personal preference

I will make my own choices & judgement based upon my own experiences of what does/doesn't work etc...

peace to all tinkerers - what ever weird method(s) you all use and stand by

& I'm always altering stuff & adapting my own personal techniques etc... many times I've noted qwirky stuff

or rather numerous times this BS TM compatible - it fucking ain't TM compatible etc...

(and Cyma v2's are a little qwirky - tappet plate cut outs, v3 spring guide, safety arm screw has to be removed prior to opening box, trigger switch has the prongs (I think on their cheapo v2 boxes), reinforced on cheapo v2's so modding for 13:1's required (not so on newer non-reinforced v2 boxes, but still odd tappet etc... - yeah them Cyma's are a bit qwirky)

soz - waffling again

 

[Adolf Hamster]

As said not getting into whose right/wrong but more of YOU making that decision based upon circumstances

your OWN judgement, plus what you might wish to try and see for YOURSELF if something works or not

We ALL have slightly different views/opinions or differ slightly in our technique/methods

Same as nigh on everything in life, be it a group of skilled craftsmen

I'll guarantee you get say 6 builders (or carpenters), they will approach the same project slightly differently

I think I've mentioned I do some shit that many might think WTF ya doing that for etc...

But it doesn't matter, it is my/your gun so it is up to the person what/how they do stuff

well said, there's no one recipe.

gun x with piston y might need a bit of spacing to get good pickup, gun z with piston y might not need anything.

ptfe is a bodge yes, but it's a bodge that works and end of the day if the gun shoots straight the gun shoots straight.

and you're not the only one who's done shocking things in the name of tinkering, there's a reason i have a lot of spare piston heads lying around.....

 

[Spike1967]

Its bewildering all of the mods that people do to their guns I just ordered a cyma P90 from taiwangun and understand it may not be great out of the box, all i am looking for is consistency, hi rate of fire is not important to me (yet).

am i right in assuming the a good air seal is vital for my objective? If so what are the weak areas that need addressing? 
 

And if you have air leaks, how do you track them down?

 

[heroshark]

I would suggest replacing the gears, shims, cylinder, cylinder head, piston, piston head, nozzle, spring, spring guide, motor, anti reverse latch, switch/wiring, selecter plate, tappet plate, hop/nub, hop unit, inner barrel, grip, receiver, stock, hand guard, outer barrel, sights, flash hider, sling swivels selecter and add a mosfet. 

 

[Spike1967]

?, so the main body is ok!!!

 

[heroshark]

?, so the main body is ok!!!

...ip, receiver, sto...

No sorry.

 

[Spike1967]

Bit the box is nice!??

 

[Sitting Duck]

am i right in assuming the a good air seal is vital for my objective? If so what are the weak areas that need addressing? 
 

And if you have air leaks, how do you track them down?

Pretty much as a starting point

Often with many guns there can be poor compression

(o-ring on piston head)

plus loose fitting cheap cylinder head

(replace or ptfe bodge)

Test compression - if unsure, test cylinder head leak in a bowl of water

(like looking for a puncture)

Normally Cyma piston heads are pretty decent but the o-ring could do with being replaced

then it works well as a piston head, though the cylinder leak is a bit loose and leaks a bit

Nozzle is a 20.7 to 20.9mm length on p90 i think (varies by manufacturer)

If you get good compression then likely you can afford to leave nozzle as is

Another area is if the nozzle is sealing against the hop rubber/bucking lips

usually this will be OK and fairly consistent - it is when you start changing lots of stuff you can get issues

TBH - just use the friggin' thing and if/when you notice the power drops then investigate

unless it shoots like crap with piss poor compression and other flaws

(if so then return it than tear it open)

Many compression issues are mostly down to the piston head's o-ring

so a 50p upgrade is often all that is needed to restore performance

Other issues like leaky cylinder head, o-ring nozzle upgrade, poor bucking lip sealing

or a flaw in how it all operates - these factors do occur but mostly it is piston's o-ring

Thus, if it ain't broke and less you mess with the less likely you will fuck it up

If you badly fit, or replace with incompatible parts then you can create MORE issues than you solve

You will NEVER get a 101% air seal throughout the system, the piston and especially nozzle o-ring

can not seal 101% as they move rapidly back & forth, too many people end fitting a tight o-ring nozzle

which struggles to move at pace maintaining the seal or snags in operation thus losing compression on bucking

(so o-ring nozzles should never be THAT tight fitting that it restricts or impedes its efficient movement)

As mentioned, you replace more bits, new cylinder head, nozzle too tight so get new nozzle

but then the new nozzle wobbles or too tight fitting in a tappet plate, so need new tappet plate

(which now you replaced MORE & MORE bits you discover the fine tolerances of it all working together

are now well out the window and it doesn't feed or you've lost 50fps from poor sealing at bucking lips etc...)

Hence, it can't be stressed enough, only change/tweak stuff you really need to

(at least until you gain some experience and learn what to check for when replacing stuff with so called TM compatible parts, that often are NOT TM compatible due to the "Chinese Lottery" of airsoft parts or rather why some shit works and often many bits bloody don't)

 

[Spike1967]

Plenty of “food for thought!” If it runs well oob then  will leave well alone! The main excuse for getting this gun was for my 11 year old and girlfriend to use (well thats what i told them!) and it will almost pay for itself if i dont have to rent site guns for a couple of skirmishes! 
my next big problem is justifying an mp5 purchase to the boss?