Lack of enthusiasm. Again.

[Adolf Hamster]

look guys, we gotta accept that airsoft is a sport that attracts folks from various ages and backgrounds, it should be no surprise that forums surrounding it will be no exception.

that's inevitably going to lead to dealing with folks with whom you have some fundamental philosophical disagreement with whether that separation be age, politics, religion or whatever.

however i do think that alex has a point that certain things are best left unsaid on a public forum, although not for the same reasons. one of the things i've always loved about this forum compared to many is how rarely debates of this sort arise, either because they're not talked about or because folks here realize the truth that arguing with someone on an internet forum isn't going to get them to change to any great degree.

on the flip side, shamal and druid have a point that if you support free speech as an ideal then you have to accept that also means accepting others should be allowed to voice opinions that don't sit well with you.

I realize that it's an easy trap to fall into, hell i remember the vaccine debate suckered me in good and proper, but looking at the long term you can choose to either hold the grudge and end up having constant little spats (until the forum suffers for it), or accept the inevitability that nothing's going to change the other party's mind and you're better off forgetting it and focusing on the real issues that affect us all.

like kickingmustang

and speedsofters

and hpa users

because for sure we ain't gonna be solving a problem as complex as racism from behind a keyboard.

 

[Tackle]

I am truly lost as to the point you’re trying to make at this point? You have a black friend that you can be very racist with and he’s fine with it… but if I was to do it he’d either be fine with it or beat me up depending on what I said?

Someone taking offence to a racist comment isn’t what makes it racist… the fact it’s a racist comment is what makes it racist. 

My point, clearly wasted on you, was that if my black mate can apply context in life, why can't the middle class white snowflakes do the same ?, sure, serious hardcore racism & right wing rhetoric needs dealing with obviously, but that's not what's going on here.

alternatively, if this is such a melting pot of bigotry & facism, you have a choice to go elsewhere ?

 

[alxndrhll]

My point, clearly wasted on you, was that if my black mate can apply context in life, why can't the middle class white snowflakes do the same ?, sure, serious hardcore racism & right wing rhetoric needs dealing with obviously, but that's not what's going on here.

alternatively, if this is such a melting pot of bigotry & facism, you have a choice to go elsewhere ?

Clearly. The main point at which I’m lost is why some racism is fine and some not? And moreover, the need for any of it on here. Every fucker else seems to manage avoiding it, it’s not a melting pot at all. The same few folks every time. The same reasoning for doing it every time. The same reasons for justifying it every time.

Why should I go elsewhere to talk about a hobby I enjoy? I’m a straight white male, it’s pretty hard to get offended by anything as a straight white male privileged as I am. I just consider not everyone is that fortunate, and while clearly wasting my time, wanted to share that I believe that’s a worthwhile thing for everyone to do. Just because your mate is happy to ignore it/laugh it off/deal with it however they wish doesn’t mean everyone can/will and it’s not fair to expect them to.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Clearly. The main point at which I’m lost is why some racism is fine and some not? And moreover, the need for any of it on here. Every fucker else seems to manage avoiding it, it’s not a melting pot at all. The same few folks every time. The same reasoning for doing it every time. The same reasons for justifying it every time.

Never seen any real racism on here so don't know where you are going with that statement. Druids joke is about as bad as I have ever seen and while I don't think it is really necessary or funny I wouldn't scream racism. I do agree that what goes on between friends is different to how you deal with general public but at the same time people have taken the sjw bit to an absurd level lately.

Seems like the only one who is really making generalisations and attacking anybody is you. 

 

[alxndrhll]

Never seen any real racism on here so don't know where you are going with that statement. Druids joke is about as bad as I have ever seen and while I don't think it is really necessary or funny I wouldn't scream racism. I do agree that what goes on between friends is different to how you deal with general public but at the same time people have taken the sjw bit to an absurd level lately.

Seems like the only one who is really making generalisations and attacking anybody is you. 

Genuine question, you don’t think ‘slitty eyed little yellow friend’ is way over the line? As stated earlier before I seemingly started getting dog piled for thinking racist comments of any ilk aren’t appropriate, that’s the one that led me to saying something. As you say, I don’t think Druid’s was appropriate but that had seemingly been discussed before I said anything.

Disagree with your conclusion there, but you’re entitled to it. It was edited after posting, but there was a comment made suggesting I should kill myself for my opinion earlier so I figure most things are fair game from there. I don’t think I’ve gone any further nor got any more personal than anyone else.

 

[Chev Chelios]

"To which Wang in HK replies “Wat da fluck you talk about ? I plint good nock off platches you plick !”

"Hay its a mea, I is alika meat balls and da pasta da source"

“Bwai, ya done know seh mi deya gwaan easy."

So when you read the above quotes what person do you see in your head reading them? Are all 3 quotes racist?  

Is it racist to assume because someone talks that way they look a certain way?

If you said Chinse, Italian and Jamaican you think the same as me. Does that mean you and I are prejudice? 

 

[alxndrhll]

"To which Wang in HK replies “Wat da fluck you talk about ? I plint good nock off platches you plick !”

"Hay its a mea, I is alika meat balls and da pasta da source"

“Bwai, ya done know seh mi deya gwaan easy."

So when you read the above quotes what person do you see in your head reading them? Are all 3 quotes racist?  

Ultimately depends on the context. Assuming that context is the same as presented in the initial instances, yes. Irrelevant of context the middle one is.

Is it racist to assume because someone talks that way they look a certain way?

If you said Chinse, Italian and Jamaican you think the same as me. Does that mean you and I are prejudice? 

Yes.

Yes and yes.

Not really sure what the point of all of that was?

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Genuine question, you don’t think ‘slitty eyed little yellow friend’ is way over the line? As stated earlier before I seemingly started getting dog piled for thinking racist comments of any ilk aren’t appropriate, that’s the one that led me to saying something. As you say, I don’t think Druid’s was appropriate but that had seemingly been discussed before I said anything.

Disagree with your conclusion there, but you’re entitled to it. It was edited after posting, but there was a comment made suggesting I should kill myself for my opinion earlier so I figure most things are fair game from there. I don’t think I’ve gone any further nor got any more personal than anyone else.

No it is a bit stupid but not racism, mocking accents and appearances is just part of the usual man banter bullshit. I class racism as anything that is about dragging others down and treating them like they are less than you. While we can all do that to individuals who irk us doing it to a race based on some bullshit like skin colour or cultural differences that people probably don't even understand is just pathetic.

As for someone telling you to go kill yourself I didn't see it and if I had my response would have been harsher than yours as that is crossing a line.

 

[alxndrhll]

No it is a bit stupid but not racism, mocking accents and appearances is just part of the usual man banter bullshit. I class racism as anything that is about dragging others down and treating them like they are less than you. While we can all do that to individuals who irk us doing it to a race based on some bullshit like skin colour or cultural differences that people probably don't even understand is just pathetic.

As for someone telling you to go kill yourself I didn't see it and if I had my response would have been harsher than yours as that is crossing a line.

Fair, I honestly hadn’t considered how wide the variance of what different folks do and do not consider racist because that is an absolute home run for me… hence sitting here going back and forth on it. Not to say my opinion on that has changed, but I appreciate you answering.

I dare say that sliding scale is the age/generational (I say this as a 31 year old, with no actual idea what ages everyone else is so this could turn out to be utter nonsense) thing I’m missing, which in hindsight has been inferred by the other chaps that have been commenting away for the last few hours. Once I’m ‘off’ I’m seemingly more than happy to just read the bits I can snipe at, or at least only consider those bits. Again, doesn’t change my opinion but I’m trying to see it from ‘the other side’ as best I can.

To be entirely transparent it was ‘can you see how long you can hold your breath for’ or something along those lines. I’m not sure how that could be interpreted as anything else than ‘go kill yourself’, but I might be missing something.

 

[Chev Chelios]

Not really sure what the point of all of that was?

Just to see how fare the subconscious bias gos vs what is perceived racism.

Like how people tie country vs religion vs race when really all 3 have nothing to do with the other.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

I dare say that sliding scale is the age/generational (I say this as a 31 year old, with no actual idea what ages everyone else is so this could turn out to be utter nonsense) 

Partly generational as I am a bit older at 45 but I would say in my case it is more based on societal. As I said I grew in Bham surrounded by all cultures so my friend group was always very varied and that meant racial jokes were the norm and still are. There was never any real racism though it was just banter and no one got offended, my mates dad who was from Trinidad was an encyclopedia of white boy jokes and gave me hell for years and it was hilarious. So I suppose I am more thick skinned about it all, especially growing up on a council estate where giving each other shit was like a tradition.

Also I see stuff from my friends points of view and quite a few black friends have said that their blackness feels like it is more of an issue now than ever with all the constant talk. I actually had a friend walk out of a job because he said the diversity there felt like stealth racism and he needs nothing handing to him because of some racial pandering. Racism comes in many forms and the only way to beat it is just treat people as people and lets stop looking for issues as that just keeps things alive.

 

[Tackle]

Partly generational as I am a bit older at 45 but I would say in my case it is more based on societal. As I said I grew in Bham surrounded by all cultures so my friend group was always very varied and that meant racial jokes were the norm and still are. There was never any real racism though it was just banter and no one got offended, my mates dad who was from Trinidad was an encyclopedia of white boy jokes and gave me hell for years and it was hilarious. So I suppose I am more thick skinned about it all, especially growing up on a council estate where giving each other shit was like a tradition.

Also I see stuff from my friends points of view and quite a few black friends have said that their blackness feels like it is more of an issue now than ever with all the constant talk. I actually had a friend walk out of a job because he said the diversity there felt like stealth racism and he needs nothing handing to him because of some racial pandering. Racism comes in many forms and the only way to beat it is just treat people as people and lets stop looking for issues as that just keeps things alive.

This^?

With the exception of London instead of Birmingham, this mirrors my youth (I'm 53), & let's not forget racism doesn't just affect people of "colour", when my dad came to England from Eire, most of the lodgings had signs outside stating "Irish & Black's not welcome", & even before that he'd go for a job back home, one that he'd be considered to be way overqualified for, only to be rejected at the last minute for being a Catholic.

? 

How many on here can say that they've had to go to another country to find work due to overt racism in their own ?

 

[Druid799]

Last comment as I’m the one who set off this discord on the forum , all the time I’ve been on it I’ve only seen two members ? properly accuse other members of any kind of racist/phobic behaviour and the two of them turned out to be nasty little hypocrites who tried and failed with their accusations to find any real malicious intent then accused the whole forum of it and disappeared . 
Mr Sparkles anyone ? I rest my case . 

 

[Rogerborg]

think you may be better off leaving the jokes to ricky gervais

I find him about as funny as unanesthetised dental work.  But it's great that we don't all enjoy the same things, that's what actual human diversity is about.

Oh, a reminder that this is the internets, not a pub, and there's a very easy way to deal with people that you don't want to hear from.

View attachment 78290

 

[Lozart]

I find him about as funny as unanesthetised dental work. 

AT LAST! Someone else that shares my view of Gervais.

I was working up in York, years ago, one of the guys I was working with said "I like that Ricky Gervais, the more I learn about Reading, the funnier he is". Pretty much sums him up really (for the uninitiated, Reading is a shit hole, Gervais comes from Whitley which is the shittiest part of said hole).

 

[Cannonfodder]

Glad I'm not the only one who'd rather have a wank with sandpaper gloves than listen to that smug sanctimonious prick

As for the whole freedom of speech thing, yes we all have the freedom to say what we like (to an extent) but this does not give you freedom from the consequences of what you say

 

[Druid799]

Glad I'm not the only one who'd rather have a wank with sandpaper gloves than listen to that smug sanctimonious prick

 I like his early stand up stuff and I do think he makes some really good comments on religion and animal welfare, BUT his ‘acting’ and general pontification ? Yea a right smug twat ! 

 

[Mr. No_Face]

Man this place has changed in my absence lol. So many "heated" debates.

 

[Shamal]

Man this place has changed in my absence lol. So many "heated" debates.

Sarcasm at its best ??

Regards 

 

[Cannonfodder]

Better than a mass debate ?

I'll get my coat