Importing Rifle to Uk from EU

[Airsoft84]

Hi everyone,could someone advise me,I have put myself in weird position,basically has been ordered the Rif from Poland with slightly bigger velocity which is 390 fps,at the moment the parcel has been stock on border control ,anyone know why would happen now?would I be able to send it back?thanks

 

[Rogerborg]

[Cross posted]

Have you received any firearms declaration or exemption forms yet?

I ask because, strictly speaking, something capable of over 1.3J and auto fire is a Section 5 (1) (a) prohibited firearm, as daft as that sounds.

Since you haven't received it yet, you could file a dispute with the seller or your payment processor. That would be a bit of a dick move, but on the other hand, a commercial seller should know fine well that it's a no-no to send a 1.4J autogun into the UK to begin with.

If you do get a knock on the door or a nastygram from Border Force or the police, say nothing, admit to nothing, and get legal advice.  Firearms convictions are no joke.

 

[Asomodai]

Have they sent you notification that it has been seized? It may take a while to get you if they have. How long has it been stuck?

If they have seized it and the FPS is not written on the box, they may chrono test it (Which they have done in the past) and destroy it if it fails the chrono or if they see that it says 390 FPS anywhere on the packaging or the documents they will destroy it without testing, there is also a slight possibility that you will be fined and/or prosecuted (it's written into the law, but there has been no known precedent that I am aware)

They will not send it back if it's a section 5 firearm, they will only destroy it.

Why on earth did you order it without getting the retailer to lower the velocity? Why import a section 5 firearm?

Do you have a UKARA number? (It won't help so much, but just curious).

[Cross posted]

Since you haven't received it yet, you could file a dispute with the seller or your payment processor. That would be a bit of a dick move, but on the other hand, a commercial seller should know fine well that it's a no-no to send a 1.4J autogun into the UK to begin with.

As with anything, the onus is on the buyer, not the seller to know. The seller cannot possibly know the local laws of every country, but the buyer should definitely know the law of their own country. 

The buyer would lose the dispute.

 

[Rogerborg]

Why import a section 5 firearm?

To be fair, who would imagine that to be the case?  I mean, it's just a plastic pellet toy, and people play with higher energies in much of the world.  Bear in mind that the 57A airsoft definition is "a missile (of any kind)",  not what you intend to use in it. Guns prone to Joule creeping (HPA, some gas, full piston / short barrel AEGs) might turn out to be Sections 5s, if the tools of the State were to drop a 0.86g steel BB in there.

 

[Cannonfodder]

There could be a number of reasons including

It may be that it's been checked already and they're awaiting payment of any taxes etc, if so you should get a letter in a few days telling you how to pay and how much.

Is the gun full auto capable? If so that muzzle energy makes it a section 5 firearm meaning they'll throw it in the crusher and send you a letter

Alternatively they might still be checking your defence.

Of course it could simply be sat in a pile of parcels waiting to be checked. 

 

[Asomodai]

To be fair, who would imagine that to be the case?  I mean, it's just a plastic pellet toy, and people play with higher energies in much of the world.  Bear in mind that the 57A airsoft definition is "a missile (of any kind)",  not what you intend to use in it. Guns prone to Joule creeping (HPA, some gas, full piston / short barrel AEGs) might turn out to be Sections 5s, if the tools of the State were to drop a 0.86g steel BB in there.

Because the guy importing it is presumably an airsofter and should know that 350fps is our limit? Even if he didn't specifically know it was a section 5 firearm, he definitely knew enough to know it was over our countries limits. 

 

[The_Lord_Poncho]

Unfortunately it seems that buying from an established UK business does not necessarily mean that the Airsoft RIFs which turn up in the post are anywhere close to the FPS/power levels they are sold as, and can stray into unlawful territory. I would presume in those circumstances though, should there ever be a drama, the weight of the law would fall upon the retailer, not the buyer.

 

[Tommikka]

Legally the importer is held liable for what is crossing inwards through a border.

There may be no comeback on the retailer unless the buyer highlighted the requirement for UK legal specifications or the overseas retailer advertised the availability of UK specifications

Many things could happen:

The package sits for a while then processes through 

An import VAT charge is raised against the importer, plus handling charges 

A RIF declaration & Defence are requested 

The power is checked / identified 

Failure to pass the processes can result in destruction or return 

If very lucky it comes through 

If slightly lucky it is rejected but returned, and you get refunded - a restocking charge may occur 

 

[Airsoft84]

Parcel has been arrived in to UK 05/05/24,yes I did stupid move now I realised as I thought if retailer shipping in to UK they are completely comply with the law,by the way 1.3j is 274 fps,no I didn’t ordered it with purpose just relied on retailer-so stupid,hoping this topic will save anyone doing same thing!

My bad 1.3j is 374fps

 

[Pseudotectonic]

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/firearms#a03

Public Interest Considerations


Prosecution will generally be in the public interest given the seriousness of firearms offences and the risk to public safety.

However, a prosecution may not be required where the contravention is technical and there has been no risk to public safety, and/or where the offence resulted from an oversight or misunderstanding. Guidance issued to the police in connection with certain aspects of firearms legislation can be found on the Gov.UK website. Factors relating to the physical or mental health of the defendant may also mean that prosecution is not in the public interest.

I don't think you need to worry too much, especially if it hasn't even found its way to you yet. Given it is just a small technical contravention (an 8% is arguably within margin of error) they might let it slide, or just seize it and then give you a talking and ask for your UKARA just to make sure.

But how would they even know the joules? They wouldn't know unless your RIF declaration form says it is over 1.3J and raising a flag...

 

[Airsoft84]

I had I phone call last Monday from police officer,he was asking my UKara number and told me he will phone back,since then nothing happened!

Actually is %4 over the limit,there should be certificate inside the box with testing results from manufacturer in pigs

FPS I mean?

 

[Pseudotectonic]

... they are probably chronoing it. I think they will see that it is just a genuine mistake and might try their best to let it slide, e.g. dial up the hop up and using different weight or brand BBs so it passes chrono without them having to do any more paperwork. I am just guessing of course.

 

[Cannonfodder]

You could always try ringing them

 

[Airsoft84]

I’m not sure who I supposed to call and what should I say?can u advice please?thanks

 

[Pseudotectonic]

Are you sure it was the police who called you, and not the customs?

 

[Airsoft84]

He said Greater Manchester officer,I couldn’t remember the name as I was unexpected that kind of call

Asked me what is the purpose of this order I said because I’m Airsoft player,the he just ask my UKARA number and told me that he will oho e back in few day but never did yet

The I started panicking

 

[Rogerborg]

should know that 350fps is our limit

Should know that it's 1.3J, for an auto-capable gun designed to discharge only small plastic missiles to not be considered a firearm.  And it's the capability to discharge a missile of any kind.  There's nothing compelling the State to drop in 0.2g BBs, or plastic. The intent of the legislation is to limit lethality: they could drop in steel.

Not that I think that they will, but we should strive to be technically correct.

Try not to sweat it, @Airsoft84, you're a long way from any sort of trouble. However, if you do get another call or an invitation to attend an interview, I would suggest asking to speak to the duty solicitor at the station before making any more admissions.  You could also approach UKAPU for advice.

 

[The_Lord_Poncho]

I seem to recall 'capability' as a legal term also being debated on air rifle forums - in relation to the 12ft lbs limit. I.e. that the law in respect to a non FAC air rifle effectively states that it should not be 'capable' for shooting over 12ft lbs - but that 'capability' isn't defined. It's anybody's guess if the state, by putting very heavy pellets into an others sub 12ftlbs gun could land blows on you, or even by winding up the hammer tension (which on a fair few guns is a very easy procedure with an allen key or screw driver) would suitably prove a gun to be 'capable' of shooting over the limit.

No idea if such matters have ever been tested in a court, I would suspect not - I certainly haven't heard so. And if that's true, it just further supports the fact that unless you are really setting out to be a bit of a d*ck, the state has got better things to do than go out of its way to try and screw you over.

 

[Rogerborg]

Indeed, it's not something that overly bothers me, even though it's entirely possible that my "2.3J" boltie could go over 2.5J with the right (i.e. wrong) ammo, making it an airgun and getting my collar felt up in Jockshire.

I suspect it'll really come down to the personal objectives / quotas / "key performance indicators" of the investigating and prosecuting tools of the State.