Im looking for a good GBBR under and around £200

[jcheeseright]

I can deal with 50 rounds in 1 mag, it teaches you to not miss and not to get shot. Both the guns I am looking at are accurate enough, I have seen them hit a target each time at 70m.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, no. 70m!  70ft maybe, 70m is further than my TM shoots. 

 

[NoobyNico]

If you consider yourself a good tech and are willing to fix issues and work on setting the rifle up, I would get the WE M4 or scar. They are very good systems in terms of efficiency and reliability and can hold up to the GHK and Western Arms systems with some tuning. However, the shortcomings of the WE is the quality of parts used, which is where the teching comes in. Be prepared to replace parts that break more frequently than you would with a GHK or G&P. The good thing is, WE parts are very easily available through milspecsolutions and KY Airsoft. I have been using GBBRs for over 10 years now and I am now pretty much fluent in how GBBRs work, I am confident enough for fix any issues that come up with the WE. Id look at the WE systems as projects rather than workhorses. The actual system is excellent, it's just the quality of parts used which is what you pay for. 

I have owned many GBBRs in the past from WE, GHK, Vipertech, g&p prime, g&p WOC, King arms WA, western arms and AGM. There is no such thing as a perfect gun as it all depends on what you are looking for. I now only use WE GBBRs and own 4 WE M4s and a WE scar. I choose WE because the system is reliable and parts are easily available. Yes, the GHK and vipertechs are more durable, but parts are much harder to find. You will need replacements no matter which brand you pick, that's just part of the GBBR life (huge metal bolt hammering back and forth, high gas pressures, smashing BBs into the chamber). The only difference between brands is how often you need replacements.

I buy my WEs as boneyard rifles for £100-150, and have never bought a new rifle in all my 11 years in Airsoft. From that I've gained lots of teching experience, dealing with problems yourself. I buy mags whenever they  come up below £20, so 200 is an achievable target. But that's because I'm confident in my teching and have a huge box of spares that I can use. So think carefully what you put yourself into by choosing a WE over a GHK, to name one.

There are 3 things that need upgrading on a fresh WE. In order of priority:

Nozzle - Poseidon zero 1

Barrel - any vsr10 tightbore

Hop up - any vsr10 hard bucking (hard enough to not get shredded by the nozzle slamming back and forth)

Bucking - maple leaf concave

Expect to shoot about 2000 rounds before having to replace the bolt carrier and trigger group.

In terms of performance, I'd say a well tuned WE shoots extremely well. All my WEs have RA Tech tbbs and maple leaf buckings/nubs. I have also have a TM scar with a stock hop and Tanio Koba twist barrel and a heavily upgraded custom built M4 AEG and I can happily say that it matches them in range. The only thing u don't get with a gbb is the consistency and round count. On a good day, you'll outrange a good AEG. On a bad day, youll shoot as far as a nice Glock. But it all depends on how well you can tune your gun for every environment. Check weather forecasts and setup your gun accordingly. A lot of work, but that's the fun part of using GBBRs. I have had so many people come up and ask if I was using a TM mws, but when I tell them it's a WE, they look shocked.

Think of the GHK as buying a Ferrari and the WE as buying an mx5 and tuning it up to match the Ferrari's lap times. 

Let me know if you have any more questions.

Heres a picture of my WE collection.

View attachment 44518

 

[Rogerborg]

Army Armament R36

To be fair, there are a number of latin chaps and lady-chaps on YouTube shouting excitedly that it's el besto gunno evero.  Gun plus two mags is just £101 + delivery and extra mags are £25 each from TaiwanGun.

However, out of the box it looks to be scorchio! too, at significantly over 350fps.  You could try running it on weak gas, but then you might get issues with the blowback.  I wouldn't expect longevity, but then again, I wouldn't be surprised to be wrong on that either.  Airsoft toys, eh?

Thread here:

 

[OliG]

I would get the WE M4 or scar.

Thanks, your reply was really helpful, I was looking at the WE Scar and I am now considering getting a boneyard one and fixing it up/upgrading it. I wouldn't mind doing that as I like the idea of upgrading it and taking it apart and changing it. It would be my first time doing it but what ever I get I plan on upgrading as ik there are gonna be some compromises at this price point.

To be fair, there are a number of latin chaps and lady-chaps on YouTube shouting excitedly that it's el besto gunno evero.  Gun plus two mags is just £101 + delivery and extra mags are £25 each from TaiwanGun.

However, out of the box it looks to be scorchio! too, at significantly over 350fps.  You could try running it on weak gas, but then you might get issues with the blowback.  I wouldn't expect longevity, but then again, I wouldn't be surprised to be wrong on that either.  Airsoft toys, eh?

Thread here:



That thread actually made me join this forum, I was gonna ask the guy if it lasted but then I realised he hasn't been online for 5 months. From what I have heard, the gun has better value and just as good as quality as the WE G39 after upgrading. I was going to get that and upgrade it as people have shown it shooting 200 feet with a new hop up rubber and some new upgrades. I like the fact its 400fps, I would just put an LFS in it so I can shoot at 350 and a bit more kick. I have also seen people HPA tap it. After upgrading, it looks like a pretty decent gun.

 

[NoobyNico]

I am now considering getting a boneyard one and fixing it up/upgrading it. I wouldn't mind doing that as I like the idea of upgrading it and taking it apart and changing it. It would be my first time doing it but what ever I get I plan on upgrading as ik there are gonna be some compromises at this price point.

Just be aware that you will make mistakes and youwill 100% run into issues, especially if don't have much experience. Things such as: using the wrong gas for a given temperature can damage internals like the nozzle/bolt carrier. Not lubing/over-lubing, not allowing your nozzle to defreeze after gassing out, dirt or misalignment of the receivers causing your bolt to not seat properly in the chamber - leading to snapped nozzles.

All of these issues can be avoided once you learn all the ins and outs of a GBBR. With the correct usage and maintenance, you should be able to reach the 2000 round count without having to replace anything. With that said, running a GBBR can be very expensive, not only in the sense of having to buy loads of expensive mags, but also because an inexperienced user will have to go through a lot of spares. 

Even though the WE platform might be the cheapest decent one, it still adds up for reasons just explained.

My opinion is, go for it if you have the money and willingness for the GBBR investment, and 100% go for it if you already have a stable platform that you can rely on when the GBBR does go down. 

Having said that, I never touch my AEG and don't plan to other than to lend it to mates who need a gun. The GBBR experience makes it all worth it to me.

 

[OliG]

Just be aware that you will make mistakes and youwill 100% run into issues, especially if don't have much experience. Things such as: using the wrong gas for a given temperature can damage internals like the nozzle/bolt carrier. Not lubing/over-lubing, not allowing your nozzle to defreeze after gassing out, dirt or misalignment of the receivers causing your bolt to not seat properly in the chamber - leading to snapped nozzles.

All of these issues can be avoided once you learn all the ins and outs of a GBBR. With the correct usage and maintenance, you should be able to reach the 2000 round count without having to replace anything. With that said, running a GBBR can be very expensive, not only in the sense of having to buy loads of expensive mags, but also because an inexperienced user will have to go through a lot of spares. 

Even though the WE platform might be the cheapest decent one, it still adds up for reasons just explained.

My opinion is, go for it if you have the money and willingness for the GBBR investment, and 100% go for it if you already have a stable platform that you can rely on when the GBBR does go down. 

Having said that, I never touch my AEG and don't plan to other than to lend it to mates who need a gun. The GBBR experience makes it all worth it to me.

Thanks, you have probably given me the most helpful responses so far, I guess I will get the Army Armament R36 and upgrade the parts which will help me get used to the internals of a GBB, I heard you had to take it to part and lube it but I didn't know about the other things, thanks I will be looking into some guides on caring for a GBB.

 

[NoobyNico]

Thanks, you have probably given me the most helpful responses so far, I guess I will get the Army Armament R36 and upgrade the parts which will help me get used to the internals of a GBB, I heard you had to take it to part and lube it but I didn't know about the other things, thanks I will be looking into some guides on caring for a GBB.

Whatever you choose, make sure that compatible spares are readily available. Obviously the more you spend the better. Maintenance of parts is a must, as you said, but also setting it up is just as important. Running a GBBR without setting it up is like running a standard AEG without correcting the angle of engagement, reshimming etc. It would survive for a while, but you'll run into issues earlier than expected. There is obviously a chance that the setup is perfect out the box, but that is definitely not always the case, especially with chinese manufacturers, even taiwanese ones like WE.

My personal advice is to spend the tiny bit extra for a used WE G36 to avoid the trouble of compatibility and quality control of chinese manufacturers

 

[Yukarin]

If you consider yourself a good tech and are willing to fix issues and work on setting the rifle up, I would get the WE M4 or scar. They are very good systems in terms of efficiency and reliability and can hold up to the GHK and Western Arms systems with some tuning. However, the shortcomings of the WE is the quality of parts used, which is where the teching comes in. Be prepared to replace parts that break more frequently than you would with a GHK or G&P. The good thing is, WE parts are very easily available through milspecsolutions and KY Airsoft. I have been using GBBRs for over 10 years now and I am now pretty much fluent in how GBBRs work, I am confident enough for fix any issues that come up with the WE. Id look at the WE systems as projects rather than workhorses. The actual system is excellent, it's just the quality of parts used which is what you pay for. 

I have owned many GBBRs in the past from WE, GHK, Vipertech, g&p prime, g&p WOC, King arms WA, western arms and AGM. There is no such thing as a perfect gun as it all depends on what you are looking for. I now only use WE GBBRs and own 4 WE M4s and a WE scar. I choose WE because the system is reliable and parts are easily available. Yes, the GHK and vipertechs are more durable, but parts are much harder to find. You will need replacements no matter which brand you pick, that's just part of the GBBR life (huge metal bolt hammering back and forth, high gas pressures, smashing BBs into the chamber). The only difference between brands is how often you need replacements.

I buy my WEs as boneyard rifles for £100-150, and have never bought a new rifle in all my 11 years in Airsoft. From that I've gained lots of teching experience, dealing with problems yourself. I buy mags whenever they  come up below £20, so 200 is an achievable target. But that's because I'm confident in my teching and have a huge box of spares that I can use. So think carefully what you put yourself into by choosing a WE over a GHK, to name one.

There are 3 things that need upgrading on a fresh WE. In order of priority:

Nozzle - Poseidon zero 1

Barrel - any vsr10 tightbore

Hop up - any vsr10 hard bucking (hard enough to not get shredded by the nozzle slamming back and forth)

Bucking - maple leaf concave

Expect to shoot about 2000 rounds before having to replace the bolt carrier and trigger group.

In terms of performance, I'd say a well tuned WE shoots extremely well. All my WEs have RA Tech tbbs and maple leaf buckings/nubs. I have also have a TM scar with a stock hop and Tanio Koba twist barrel and a heavily upgraded custom built M4 AEG and I can happily say that it matches them in range. The only thing u don't get with a gbb is the consistency and round count. On a good day, you'll outrange a good AEG. On a bad day, youll shoot as far as a nice Glock. But it all depends on how well you can tune your gun for every environment. Check weather forecasts and setup your gun accordingly. A lot of work, but that's the fun part of using GBBRs. I have had so many people come up and ask if I was using a TM mws, but when I tell them it's a WE, they look shocked.

Think of the GHK as buying a Ferrari and the WE as buying an mx5 and tuning it up to match the Ferrari's lap times. 

Let me know if you have any more questions.

Heres a picture of my WE collection.

View attachment 44518

Out of interest, how big an upgrade is the Poseidon nozzle? I was considering buying it but dont have any issues with my current stock one atm. Also did you slap ur RATECH npas in there or did you buy the nozzle that has adjustable fps?

 

[OliG]

Whatever you choose, make sure that compatible spares are readily available. Obviously the more you spend the better. Maintenance of parts is a must, as you said, but also setting it up is just as important. Running a GBBR without setting it up is like running a standard AEG without correcting the angle of engagement, reshimming etc. It would survive for a while, but you'll run into issues earlier than expected. There is obviously a chance that the setup is perfect out the box, but that is definitely not always the case, especially with chinese manufacturers, even taiwanese ones like WE.

My personal advice is to spend the tiny bit extra for a used WE G36 to avoid the trouble of compatibility and quality control of chinese manufacturers

I would likely get the WE Scar if I am going with WE but I have hard that the Army R36 is compatible with WE components and according to this guy who owns both the R36 has better value and is just as good.

 

[NoobyNico]

Out of interest, how big an upgrade is the Poseidon nozzle? I was considering buying it but dont have any issues with my current stock one atm. Also did you slap ur RATECH npas in there or did you buy the nozzle that has adjustable fps?

The poseidon nozzle is extremely good. In terms of performance, it offers little to no benefit over the stock nozzle. So if you're stock nozzle is working, use it until it breaks.
The poseidon nozzle offers much better durability, using a harder, but also less brittle polycarbonate material. I've gone through a dozen stock nozzles until poseidon released their zero 1 nozzles. Since their release last year, I have been using them non-stop, even in sub zero temps (where I'd expect the stock nozzle to certainly crack), and it's been going strong with no noticeable wear.

Obviously BB jams have a high chance of causing cracks no matter what plastic nozzle you choose.

I run an NPAS in all my nozzles and have experience with the FG restricting discs, RA tech magnetic locking NPAS and the angry gun adjustable nozzle.

The npas is the easiest and most reliable way of altering FPS. I generally have a +-8FPS shot disparity indoors, and about  +-15 outdoors. I do not like the FG discs due to the way the gas is regulated from a technical standpoint(having studied fluid dynamics), and that's reflected in the bad performance i've been getting out of them.

 

[Wo1f]

@NoobyNico you have to replace the BCG and trigger components after 2000 rounds? Fuck that right off. I must have gone through 20000 in my Mws with no visible wear on the trigger mech on the mws. 

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

@NoobyNico you have to replace the BCG and trigger components after 2000 rounds? Fuck that right off. I must have gone through 20000 in my Mws with no visible wear on the trigger mech on the mws. 

That is because the MWS is pretty much perfect and WE and the other cheap gbbrs are pretty much shite.

I wouldn't say that wear is normal though more that something generally always fails soonish.

 

[NoobyNico]

@NoobyNico you have to replace the BCG and trigger components after 2000 rounds? Fuck that right off. I must have gone through 20000 in my Mws with no visible wear on the trigger mech on the mws. 

yep, that's the price to pay for going with a WE.

Ive gone through about 5 bolt carriers now and thats around about what the round count was. Trigger group lasted about 5000, and im on my 3rd one now. All that in about 6 years of ownership and usage.
Thankfully WE parts are cheap (bolt carrier+trigger group can be had for 80 quid in total from KY Airsoft + all the extras u get from buying the open bolt conversion kit)

Some people don't like the way the MWS system works as it's unrealistic. The WE is slightly more realistic, but still not as realistic as the G&P Prime and VFC systems. The MWS is, as you well know, extremely reliable when used with the right gas.

That is because the MWS is pretty much perfect and WE and the other cheap gbbrs are pretty much shite.

I wouldn't say that wear is normal though more that something generally always fails soonish.

It also depends on what you consider a failure. I generally replace parts when the trigger sear starts to round off and not feel as snappy as it once did. It still works, but it might shoot a full auto burst on a semi auto trigger pull.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Some people don't like the way the MWS system works as it's unrealistic. 

Unrealistic? It's an airsoft gun that fires plastic bbs there goes any realism right there. All that really matters is it works well.

 

[NoobyNico]

Unrealistic? It's an airsoft gun that fires plastic bbs there goes any realism right there. All that really matters is it works well.

People have different outlooks of airsoft, what matters to you may not matter as much to someone else and vise versa. That's the reason why so many brands exist that offer different systems to cater for as many people as possible.
There isn't one single way to enjoy airsoft, and it's our job to respect whichever way someone wants to play it. For me, most of the fun comes from collecting and building guns. Playing the game is fun don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't play at all if I didn't have the guns I feel passionately about. On the other hand, people just want a nice day out with their mates and shoot each other, which is equally as fun for those people, and so be it. Each to their own.
Unfortunately, the closest we'll ever get to easily owning a real AR15 in the UK is getting a gas blowback airsoft rifle. And that's the reason why I go for realism of certain GBBR systems. G&P Prime being the most realistic without compromising on performance, but good luck finding anyone of those for under a grand nowadays.