How will airsoft be affected by the EU referendum

[Sitting Duck]

Think end of the day both sides have approached all of this badly - very badly.....

They have taken figures - put their own spin on it all and told the public if you vote this way or that way - ya ar$e falls off

What they should of been doing is breaking it all down to straight bare bone facts n figures that dumb ar$e Joe Public can grasp

Problem being there is now too much mud slinging going around to just ease up on the bull$hit a bit

So both sides carry on churning out more bollox and poor Joe Public reaches a decision that he don't know who or what to believe

Truth of the matter is - nobody really knows for absolute sure if we will be better off in or out

So instead of somebody actually concentrating on what stuff they do know and putting it into a format for all to understand

They instead bull$hit it to make themselves appear like they know what they are talking about and hope the undecided swallow it

Aside from all the stories on both sides the thing that really scares me is how many people are completely clueless still how they vote

The scales on something so important are very likely to be tipped by a load of people that are not sure or not got a f*cking clue

THAT to me is the scariest thing about all of this EU malarky - very scarey indeed that we are at the mercy of uhm ergh Joe Public

 

[Mos]

Literally this ^

I agree with duck,

To be fair, I'm only a young teenager, so I'm not great with it all.

But, I'm sure with many other adults people have not been told in lamens terms what is what. And what will happen if you vote this etc.

A lot of people have no clue - including me - what is the actual facts, and what will happen.

"But young man mos, you shouldn't bother you're only a kid" - yes, but I imagine the turn out of this vote will shape my future, therefore it matters.

 

[proffrink]

Short-term, every economic think tank is saying that staying in is more viable - if not because of the 'net importer' thing, then because of the uncertainty just crippling the pound. Long term there's further uncertainty - not necessarily bleak if something can be negotiated or we work more closely with alternative suppliers, but a lot of 'ifs'. Again, 'ifs' are enough to kill investment. That's what we're dealing with here.

I sympathise with people who think there's too much misinformation going about though, because there is. Lots of numbers and graphs don't get headlines a lot and I think the social issues involved in leaving have been overplayed a great deal with the real debate over economics being missed.

We may miss the days of Brussels not meddling in our laws, but the economic impact of the EU has been profound on Europe as a whole (hate to say it once more but we have the 2nd largest GDP of anywhere on the planet as a group). Social issues come and go decade to decade, but underlying macro economics take a very, very long time to cultivate. We might be about to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and it will hurt at least in the short term a great deal.

This information is out there - being ignorant of the facts to base ones interpretations on these days isn't an excuse with the internet being what it is. We see this every day with people asking how barrels and batteries work. Millions of man-hours are put into making ways to compile data on places like OEC to make this information semi-easily digestible. We all know a single person can't be trusted, but raw numbers can. One can so easily circumvent the politics of newspapers, blogs and politicians that there's just no reasonable explanation for not doing so.

Also Mos, you couldn't figure out how a Biro worked so I'm not surprised that you need to work on your Google skills quite a bit

 

[Jambo88]

Can we not have a politics section on the forum for this kind of thread?

 

[Sacarathe]

Can we not have a politics section on the forum for this kind of thread?

Are you serious? :blink:

Also, we already do not have a politics section on the forum

 

[Jambo88]

Are you serious? :blink:

Also, we already do not have a politics section on the forum

Yes or we could ban anyone that supports ukip and a EU exit.

 

[Sacarathe]

Yes or we could ban anyone that supports ukip and a EU exit.

Sorry, my comment is an inside joke.

You ruined it. :/

 

[Jambo88]

Sorry, my comment is an inside joke.

You ruined it. :/

Sorry pal.

 

[Fumps]

I see both sides using scare tactics which annoys me more than anything but what I will say for sure is that both me & my partners jobs are looking a little shakey.

I work for a large manufacturing plant & there are already talks of down sizing and part relocation to Europe if Brexit happens which is not good for 600 members of staff and the local companies that mainly deal with us, for instance if we left the UK the haulage company we use exclusively would go out of business pretty much overnight. We are their main contract by a very long way. There are at least another 20 local business' that deal with us as their main customer (I know them well as I am the main buyer). they would all take a very bad hit if we did down size and relocate as a matter of fact I think a few would not survive.

My partner is a global fraud and financial crime consultant working within the financial services sector, she cant say which ones but she knows the wheels are already turning for some of the larger banks and financial services companies who are planning on moving across the channel if we vote out, taking with them a huge amount of money, investment and jobs. The UK is a strong base in Europe but instability is the fear factor for large companies and they will simply move on to stay with Europe than risk sticking with us in the UK.

By the way I'm no expert on this stuff so don't read the above as my opinion, these are just solid facts.

I was hoping either vote wouldn't effect me but when you are asked to write an accurate asset list of stock machinery and find out haulage cost's to France & Poland in the last few months it doesn't look good for companies like the one I work for, especially when the haulage firm in question tells me we are not the only company in Yorkshire who has asked for similar quotes in the last few weeks. It looks to me like some large scale companies are creating a disaster management plan in case of Brexit. that makes me very nervous.

So to answer the OP, yes I believe Airsoft will be effected by a Brexit simply because If people like me loose their jobs they will simply stop spending, if a recession is caused by Brexit (Which is widely accepted will happen until stability is restored to the UK economy) peoples spending patterns will drastically alter. Airsoft after all is a hobby and given the choice between paying my mortgage and paying for a day out skirmishing I know what my priority will be.

 

[James1989]

given the choice between paying my mortgage and paying for a day out skirmishing I know what my priority will be.

Airsoft obviously! On a more serious note sorry to hear about uncertainty with your job. I work in a care home and if all the EU workers suddenly require visas we are in serious trouble.

 

[Sitting Duck]

Well I've already lost my job and don't see me getting that back if we remain

(my old company has reduced workforce by over 30% in last 12 months)

But the trade thingy.......

Friends/Allies should all be doing stuff for each other but not always charging the full going rate

You get your plumber m8 to come round and revamp your central heating and he does you a good deal like friends/allies do

But he doesn't ask you to pay a yearly friend fee or expect he just live in your place anytime coz that is part of the deal

Yes if import from Far East duty should be paid

but stuff from friends/allies you should get a good deal or discount or not subject to duty

(Think maybe even imports USA should be reduced as they are supposed to be our allies etc....)

If Gunfire import from Far East - they pay duty to bring stuff over - some of their VAT is higher rate than UK btw

But if you trade with friends/allies why pay duty again - remembering you lost £20 on £100 earned so with £80 to pay more duty/tax is greed

(When you consider all big organisations avoiding paying correct levels of tax etc..)

It is beyond me why stuff has to be so damn complicated and both sides saying our ar$es will fall off if we stay in or leave crap

For the short term nothing will change - no major price hike - nobody is ordering a removal van for the 24th June if we come out

They will see how the land lies - pah that is ironic the word " lies "

That is one thing that this referendum has been overflowing with if nothing else

Import/Export stuff - I see no reason why anything short change in the short term at least

Let us not forget though, we are all guilty of snubbing many UK airsoft retailers for EU & Far East ones

Yet we with UKARA need UK retailers - yes this is another topic but kind of related in a way

We in UK have a pretty good setup, not perfect but we have a system that helps us enjoy a sport after the vcra

but we need the UK retailers for this, but our sport is regulated, enjoys sensible safety limits and ownership thanks to UK retailers

Now UK Retailers do at times need a kick up the ar$e but by continually importing direct everything ourselves is not great for everybody either

(yes some retailers take the pi$$ and customer service at a few may suck but we do need these guys is what I'm meaning)

I think little will change - well I'm pretty sure of that, and tbh to be concerned about just some toy guns is way down on my agenda of economics

 

[proffrink]

Ok, once again I should draw attention to who needs who more: EU or UK. We do not make up enough of the GDP nor export enough to be worth a super special deal. That was basically my point in the previous two posts.

It'd be great if we could all just get along, but we will be getting a worse deal out of leaving economically. Whether or not that is worth the social benefits like immigration reform that people are so passionate about is a personal decision, but one is delusional if they think that we'll get some kind of equivalent deal whilst not paying the same tariff (or more) than we're currently playing.

What you must understand is that for the EU to continue that way it is without us they have to make an example of the first member state that leaves. If not, it's going to potentially open the floodgates to places like Greece who've already threatened to leave the Eurozone - if the UK 'gets away' with a similar deal to the one they had when in the EU and with none of the regulatory restrictions that Brussels hands down there are are other countries who's population is vehemently on the side of non-federalisation who may want to go. For this reason alone we can be expected to be treated harshly. This isn't 1905 - Britain isn't the powerhouse it used to be, and even though we punch far above our weight we're up against France, Germany, Italy and Spain. These are all large economies.

The real issue I think this all stems from is how the EU has been slowly creeping towards a federation. Personally, I love that idea because - as I've said - it would make us the first or second most rich country in the world (depending on which world rankings you go by) next to the US. However, that's besides the point. Brussels has done a poor job of slowly eroding current laws and hasn't made its intentions known to much of the public and a lot of people feel short-changed when it comes to social policy.

I get the feeling like if they'd have announced some grand strategy in the late 90s or early 2000s that outlined these intentions then people would be a lot more understanding of what's going on, but they've not. That's pissed a lot of people off, because we deal with enough lack of transparency back at home where we at least have some extremely free press that can - relative to the rest of the world - hold our own government pretty accountable most of the time. It's much harder to get that accountability EU-wide, and I understand that concern.

Once again though, this 'voting out' nonsense is a short-term 'yeh well we quit' way of solving things. Compromises will need to be made for a federalised Europe, and it's a damn shame they've not made that clearer to people. I cannot help buy feel that actually the UK is a country in the EU that could well change quite a few minds on quite a few things. Also we wouldn't have to learn German because everyone speaks English, innit.

Very tough on this and the past generation though who really want to live in the UK and not move. There are so many jobs abroad that it's ridiculous. You have to remember just how small the UK is - plenty of people in the US have family on the east coast or central but work on the west coast or in Canada. The distance from California to New York is 2,440 miles. The distance from Lisbon to Helsinki? 2,410 miles.

This whole free movement thing has meant any of us here can easily take up a job abroad, and flights are cheap across Europe. I'm seeing a lot of my peers looking at jobs in Germany and other places and that seems a natural progression for a lot of young people who can see the bigger picture. Don't get me wrong - the UK will always be my home, but I'm also European. Part of the continent with the richest history in the world, that's responsible for the lion's share of modern scientific discoveries and a GDP $1tril above or below that of the US (depending on which statistics you go by). This seems to be a generational thing, and it's no coincidence that if you're aged over 35 then you're at least 42% likely to vote 'leave' as opposed to under 35s who're 53% likely to vote 'remain' (according to the Opinium/Observer poll in April). In over 55s this jumps up to 54% voting leave.

We share a great deal in common and it would be a shame to throw that away for the past 10-15 years of poor social policy changes.

 

[skarra333]

As this is an EU Referendum/Airsoft crossover, can I apply some airsoft logic to help me decide how to vote...

It's only plastic balls, charge! But, it's raining and my gear'll get wet, so I'm going home. See you next month.

 

[Sitting Duck]

respect your views sir even though our outlooks are somewhat different

but I was trying to keep this to how Airsoft itself will be affected as we have an EU thread

and probably have had more wars of words lately on EU than all the ukara rows put together

There is a lot conflicting stories on both sides, the "yeah I'll quit" approach is not always the best approach

but sometimes like in employment if you feel you are undervalued at times you are left with little other options

wise to secure employment elsewhere first of course but at times if you remain at a crappy job you will keep having the pi$$ taken out of you

(eg: others get promoted or new people recruited over yourself again & again)

Airsoft wise - think very little will change at least for the short term - it might help UK retailers even which we do still need a bit

The rest of the EU debate nobody really knows 101% sure - experts will say stick with devil you know and they can't run the risk of being incorrect

 

[Sitting Duck]

As this is an EU Referendum/Airsoft crossover, can I apply some airsoft logic to help me decide how to vote...

It's only plastic balls, charge! But, it's raining and my gear'll get wet, so I'm going home. See you next month.

Jeeez - best check the weather report for the 23rd

if rain is forecast it could be a very low airsoft turnout I guess

ahh - don't worry, just spoke to Dodgy Dave, if its raining he says he may extend the deadline for us

 

[Sacarathe]

Once again though, this 'voting out' nonsense is a short-term 'yeh well we quit' way of solving things. Compromises will need to be made for a federalised Europe, and it's a damn shame they've not made that clearer to people. I cannot help buy feel that actually the UK is a country in the EU that could well change quite a few minds on quite a few things. Also we wouldn't have to learn German because everyone speaks English, innit.

Very tough on this and the past generation though who really want to live in the UK and not move. There are so many jobs abroad that it's ridiculous. You have to remember just how small the UK is - plenty of people in the US have family on the east coast or central but work on the west coast or in Canada. The distance from California to New York is 2,440 miles. The distance from Lisbon to Helsinki? 2,410 miles.

This whole free movement thing has meant any of us here can easily take up a job abroad, and flights are cheap across Europe. I'm seeing a lot of my peers looking at jobs in Germany and other places and that seems a natural progression for a lot of young people who can see the bigger picture. Don't get me wrong - the UK will always be my home, but I'm also European. Part of the continent with the richest history in the world, that's responsible for the lion's share of modern scientific discoveries and a GDP $1tril above or below that of the US (depending on which statistics you go by). This seems to be a generational thing, and it's no coincidence that if you're aged over 35 then you're at least 42% likely to vote 'leave' as opposed to under 35s who're 53% likely to vote 'remain' (according to the Opinium/Observer poll in April). In over 55s this jumps up to 54% voting leave.

We share a great deal in common and it would be a shame to throw that away for the past 10-15 years of poor social policy changes.

I'm pro USE too, that is a brilliant write up.

Since going to uni I have lived with international and european students and it is so peculiar how alike students from all the countries west of the berlin wall are (despite being born after it came down), yet still different they are from the English, we've hurt ourselves over the last 30 years with the typical mememememe British attitude, but it's not too late to integrate properly, we just need less short sighted people. That the English language is learned across the continent is a major boon which we squander (particularly in the lower classes - I'm not saying English workers in Europe are educated only, but the news stories only seem to talk about those which are).

We have provided a common language for people from all across the EU to work in any country, but they use that more than we do, but in mainland England it's still us or them, and it should only be we.

I think keeping the pound was the right decision, but while there are minimum wage differences across the various states it's hardly surprising that people will move, it's no different from moving from the north of England to Scotland or the South.

Only an idiot would vote to be the first country to leave the EU.

I spoke to my sister yesterday and she was not even going to vote, I told her I would think less of her not voting than putting "leave" but that she does not need to tell me her vote, and that I do not care as long as she makes one. Then I explained what status quo means.

 

[Sitting Duck]

Only an idiot would vote to be the first country to leave the EU.

Phew - for a moment there I thought there was something wrong with me

now I know there is everything wrong with me....

no worries - I know we all got a different take on this so no rows or grudges held

(until we next meet in each other's sights - kidding btw)

 

[Giliador]

It make sense what German Finance Minister said.

''That wont work, Schäuble told Der Spiegel. It would require the country to abide by the rules of a club from which it currently wants to withdraw. If the majority in Britain opts for Brexit, that would be a decision against the single market. In is in. Out is out. One has to respect the sovereignty of the British people.''

You can argue that Germany trade with UK. Especially car export, they will still do, but the tax and customs after Brexit would be paid by UK not Germany

 

[Sacarathe]

Phew - for a moment there I thought there was something wrong with me

now I know there is everything wrong with me....

no worries - I know we all got a different take on this so no rows or grudges held

(until we next meet in each other's sights - kidding btw)

Only an idiot would vote to be the first country to leave the EU.

Haha, actually that sentence came out horribly wrong, I don't have a problem with people voting leave, only those that do so when it's for the first country to leave. These things just happen to be the same right now.

 

[Fumps]

Ok, once again I should draw attention to who needs who more: EU or UK. We do not make up enough of the GDP nor export enough to be worth a super special deal. That was basically my point in the previous two posts.

It'd be great if we could all just get along, but we will be getting a worse deal out of leaving economically. Whether or not that is worth the social benefits like immigration reform that people are so passionate about is a personal decision, but one is delusional if they think that we'll get some kind of equivalent deal whilst not paying the same tariff (or more) than we're currently playing.

What you must understand is that for the EU to continue that way it is without us they have to make an example of the first member state that leaves. If not, it's going to potentially open the floodgates to places like Greece who've already threatened to leave the Eurozone - if the UK 'gets away' with a similar deal to the one they had when in the EU and with none of the regulatory restrictions that Brussels hands down there are are other countries who's population is vehemently on the side of non-federalisation who may want to go. For this reason alone we can be expected to be treated harshly. This isn't 1905 - Britain isn't the powerhouse it used to be, and even though we punch far above our weight we're up against France, Germany, Italy and Spain. These are all large economies.

You have eloquently said what I was dreading in the back of my mind. if the EU make it easy for us, what would be the point of staying in for the rest of the member states ?

I think if we are made an example of (Lets face it how heartless has the EU been with Greece?) We are basically screwed.

Edited for rushed typing lol