I'm in the middle of a build and I'm having trouble reconciling sloppy clearances with trying to get the pinion /bevel properly shimmed. The motor is an ASG cnc going into a Guarder V2 shell. The issue I have is that the shaft tower fits to the gearbox like a sausage up the Meysey Tunnel which makes shimming almost impossible. Any tips for getting this to work?
How well should a motor fit a gearbox?
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Sitting Duck
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- May 11, 2014
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You could try adhesive aluminium tape ???
I have used heat shrink tubing which sort of works - but it doesn't coz it can get damaged very easily
Know what ya mean - some motor entry points are larger than others
some are damn tight the pinion itself can be tight to fit into box
Think the thin proper aluminium tape wrapped around the shaft is perhaps more durable & effective
unless others can chime in with suggestions ???
I have used heat shrink tubing which sort of works - but it doesn't coz it can get damaged very easily
Know what ya mean - some motor entry points are larger than others
some are damn tight the pinion itself can be tight to fit into box
Think the thin proper aluminium tape wrapped around the shaft is perhaps more durable & effective
unless others can chime in with suggestions ???
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- #3
I think I can feel a Devcon moment coming on. If I use a metal loaded epoxy repair filler I should be able to clamp the shell around the motor tower with a bit of sacrificial tape as a release agent and get a good fit. I'm beginning to wish I'd just bought a nice new krytac... but looking on the bright side it's warm in the workshop and cold outside, and I like a challenge.
Sitting Duck
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I'd consider the tape tbh
As used in motor mod
Strong and durable but can removed later
As used in motor mod
Strong and durable but can removed later
ImTriggerHappy
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Shim gearbox so gears mesh well and fit snug but still turn easily then reassemble gun shove in motor, adjust motor height.
Add battery then shoot shit.
jcheeseright
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- Jun 14, 2012
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wait... what? the hole is SUPPOSED to be massive, the grip is what holds the motor in position.
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- #7
I did wonder if the grip should have more influence in motor position. Makes sense if it already sets motor height. I've got the feeling that this may be another component the previous owner has 'improved'. Could someone confirm the diameter of the tower hole in an unmolested grip please? I'm never buying another second hand gun unless it's never been out of the box!
Oh, and four screws to locate the grip, or have two of them been lost?
Oh, and four screws to locate the grip, or have two of them been lost?
jcheeseright
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- Jun 14, 2012
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Two screws to fix the grip, no set standard on the size of the hole, normally a lot bigger than you think would be correct!
ImTriggerHappy
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Stop with the sensible answers. I am feeling very sarcastic tonight and you keep jumping in before I can take the mick.
Its ruining my mojo.
Sitting Duck
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- May 11, 2014
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As explained some boxes do have slightly larger apertures than others...
Some motor/pinions can be different too
I can't remember the exact box & motor but one in particular the pinion was a bit larger at its base/widest cut of teeth
and was a f*cking sod to align in pistol grip exactly right that it entered into box when fitting motor & base plate.
On other boxes the aperture can vary and if you measure the motor shaft sleeve on different motors you get deviations
in some instances this can lead to a larger amount of play on motor sleeve when fitted inside the box.
Yes the motor set by the plate but different plates also alter the motor angle & alignment
Line up a few different compatible plates and you will notice they do vary a little too
Also the motor plate holds the motor in place and sets the height - watch out for some metal plates can cause a short
(little dremel work req if risk of short arises near a motor terminal)
However - not matter how snug the motor is fixed at the plate - on some combinations if there is a bit too much slack
inside the aperture of box, then the moment power is applied, the motor starts to turn, it will try to jump away from bevel
a bit like a banshee on acid at some rave....
The v2 gearbox is a f*cking w@nky design where the motor is fixed & aligned and the f*cking wiring by motor pinion chewing
Yup no doubt it is a w@nk of a gearbox when numerous bits fit badly & misaligned & what not
A v3 wiith the external wiring means a mosfet can be fitted without opening box, means no chance of pinion chewing wires
The motor frame means much less guesswork or judging the bevel height, the motor aligns better & firmer
the odd loosening of the frame and a slight angle twist will help in adjust the motor angle to a better & more quiet angle
better than a sloppy or not true alignment of different pistol grips in M4's & others throwing stuff out....
I like the v2's but the whole motor fitment is much more sloppy than v3's and it does need a little more checking imho
if there is too much excessive play when the motor is inserted into gearbox aperture then you WILL have it jumping about
I have known this - yes it needs a little room to adjust but too much then it will flail about under load - not good
there are numerous methods to ensuring the motor fits a tiny bit more snug - still with some play but not too sloppy
yes the wires should help reduce to amount of space the motor can slop about too but the v2's can be a ballache at times
especially if you got a bad grip that motor slops about in too much, bad angle from bad motor plate, the grip is crap blah x3
this guy shows "some" issues on v2's - I don't agree with all his methods but to each their own as they say....
Oi wtf did the youtube link go ffs ???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ymv2SlZOBs
Some motor/pinions can be different too
I can't remember the exact box & motor but one in particular the pinion was a bit larger at its base/widest cut of teeth
and was a f*cking sod to align in pistol grip exactly right that it entered into box when fitting motor & base plate.
On other boxes the aperture can vary and if you measure the motor shaft sleeve on different motors you get deviations
in some instances this can lead to a larger amount of play on motor sleeve when fitted inside the box.
Yes the motor set by the plate but different plates also alter the motor angle & alignment
Line up a few different compatible plates and you will notice they do vary a little too
Also the motor plate holds the motor in place and sets the height - watch out for some metal plates can cause a short
(little dremel work req if risk of short arises near a motor terminal)
However - not matter how snug the motor is fixed at the plate - on some combinations if there is a bit too much slack
inside the aperture of box, then the moment power is applied, the motor starts to turn, it will try to jump away from bevel
a bit like a banshee on acid at some rave....
The v2 gearbox is a f*cking w@nky design where the motor is fixed & aligned and the f*cking wiring by motor pinion chewing
Yup no doubt it is a w@nk of a gearbox when numerous bits fit badly & misaligned & what not
A v3 wiith the external wiring means a mosfet can be fitted without opening box, means no chance of pinion chewing wires
The motor frame means much less guesswork or judging the bevel height, the motor aligns better & firmer
the odd loosening of the frame and a slight angle twist will help in adjust the motor angle to a better & more quiet angle
better than a sloppy or not true alignment of different pistol grips in M4's & others throwing stuff out....
I like the v2's but the whole motor fitment is much more sloppy than v3's and it does need a little more checking imho
if there is too much excessive play when the motor is inserted into gearbox aperture then you WILL have it jumping about
I have known this - yes it needs a little room to adjust but too much then it will flail about under load - not good
there are numerous methods to ensuring the motor fits a tiny bit more snug - still with some play but not too sloppy
yes the wires should help reduce to amount of space the motor can slop about too but the v2's can be a ballache at times
especially if you got a bad grip that motor slops about in too much, bad angle from bad motor plate, the grip is crap blah x3
this guy shows "some" issues on v2's - I don't agree with all his methods but to each their own as they say....
Oi wtf did the youtube link go ffs ???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ymv2SlZOBs
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- Thread starter
- #11
- Thread starter
- #12
Which would explain why the numpty who owned it had the motor wound up so tight that the shaft started to grind through the lifter plate...
View attachment 21732
View attachment 21732
- Thread starter
- #13
Some people shouldn't be allowed nice things.... or access to a Dremel.
ITH, feel free to take the piss, although I think I'm giving the stuff away here. A little light relief would be welcome, even if you are late to the party. I don't need sympathy but my wallet could do with Epsom Salts.
New grip and base plate ordered, and after I'd made such a nice job of getting the old one to clear the receiver with a lovely 0.5mm gap. (Sigh)
ITH, feel free to take the piss, although I think I'm giving the stuff away here. A little light relief would be welcome, even if you are late to the party. I don't need sympathy but my wallet could do with Epsom Salts.
New grip and base plate ordered, and after I'd made such a nice job of getting the old one to clear the receiver with a lovely 0.5mm gap. (Sigh)
Sitting Duck
Supporters
- May 11, 2014
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Don't worry too much....
it is an " O " pinion which is a little bit more tricky to replace
but no worries if it is totally messed up
you can heat up the pinion and lever or pull it off
or in a vice and drift punch the shaft off the pinion
tricky to replace but like the car flywheel - keep one part cool
say chuck motor in freezer for a short while - heat up new pinion
then try to assemble without burning yourself or using force and bending the motor shaft
anyway - no biggie....
the motor can & neodym magnets can be salvaged to go with an easier std " D " armature
could be quick - unlikely
could be a little balanced
but most likely produce a torquey motor
F*ck me the balls up and abortions and failed attempts I did at first
I'm not a thicko - know a bit about stuff so how hard can it be - a little toy gun.....
Whilst attempting to investigate my son's slightly malfunctioning gun....
2 Hours later a lot of swearing grease and gave up looking for the bits that exploded as I opened my first gearbox..
"Right, you know that gun of yours that was playing up a little bit" I say....
"Oh great - you fixed it then Dad...." he asks.....
"No son, it is TOTALLY F*CKED NOW - new box or new gun I reckon I'm done with the bastid" I reply & reach for a beer
it is an " O " pinion which is a little bit more tricky to replace
but no worries if it is totally messed up
you can heat up the pinion and lever or pull it off
or in a vice and drift punch the shaft off the pinion
tricky to replace but like the car flywheel - keep one part cool
say chuck motor in freezer for a short while - heat up new pinion
then try to assemble without burning yourself or using force and bending the motor shaft
anyway - no biggie....
the motor can & neodym magnets can be salvaged to go with an easier std " D " armature
could be quick - unlikely
could be a little balanced
but most likely produce a torquey motor
F*ck me the balls up and abortions and failed attempts I did at first
I'm not a thicko - know a bit about stuff so how hard can it be - a little toy gun.....
Whilst attempting to investigate my son's slightly malfunctioning gun....
2 Hours later a lot of swearing grease and gave up looking for the bits that exploded as I opened my first gearbox..
"Right, you know that gun of yours that was playing up a little bit" I say....
"Oh great - you fixed it then Dad...." he asks.....
"No son, it is TOTALLY F*CKED NOW - new box or new gun I reckon I'm done with the bastid" I reply & reach for a beer
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- Thread starter
- #15
Cheers. I couldn't be arsed to sort that motor out right at the moment, and it wasn't right for what I wanted anyway, but I might re can the ferrite motor in my son's M4 and build him a Frankentorque with speed gears and a homebred Mosfet. Besides, I've got to sort the other end of the motor out as well...
View attachment 21733
View attachment 21733
- Thread starter
- #17
I think the motor was merely one of the tools which the previous owner used to beat the remainder of the internals into a pulp. I'm beginning to feel like I should start a thread to catalogue the horrors as an example of how NOT to do things.
- Thread starter
- #18
It's back from the dead! Once I'd got the brushes out, one of which had been soldered in, I think in an attempt to repair a broken braided lead, cleaned the gear swarf out of the casing, resurfaced the commutator, and removed lumps of solder then carefully reassembled it with new brushes and a pinion...
View attachment 22351
It should now spend many happy revolutions supping upon 7.4v and happily spinning 18:1 gears.
View attachment 22351
It should now spend many happy revolutions supping upon 7.4v and happily spinning 18:1 gears.
ImTriggerHappy
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- Feb 25, 2015
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You have a done a nice job of that but am I the only one thinking that it would have been easier to just chuck it and buy a new one?
There is a point when you can be too hands on.
There is a point when you can be too hands on.
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