Help on sniper rifles

NickM said:
Actually, TM VSR and JG Bar are recommended , the VSR especially as they are so damn good out of the box. Without too many expensive upgrades you can get a very reliable sniper.

1 Swap the trigger and piston sears for steel or another alloy. ( £24)

2 Replace the spring with something with a bit more grunt. and put in a steel spring guide ( M150 £13.99, spring guide £16.99)

3 replace the standard hop arm with the dangerwerx one (£23.99) not necessary really you could do the biro hop mod.

4 new barrel if you really want one although the TM one is supposed to be pretty good anyway.

Keep the original hop rubber if TM.

Free upgrades, they mostly involve things you have lying around:-

polish the barrel

the TDC hop mod, basically a hole is drilled directly down on top of the hop unit with a nut glued to the top and a screw which winds down and presses directly onto the hop arm, this stops the arm twisting and applying indirect pressure.

wash your bbs ( test 0.25, 0.28, 0.30, 0.36 and 0.40 to see what is best.)

I make that £55 worth of upgrades for a VSR not including a barrel.
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What make are they all? I'm going to use Laylax and PDI parts. I want this sniper to be the mutts nuts. It's not something I want to rush :) !

Also you mentioned washing your BBs?? Why do you do this?

And is that all the upgrades I will need? Nothing else?.

I'm going to get a PDI .01 barrel for it ;) .

 
And I'll just buy barrel spacers lol :) ! I don't mind about cost. It's a project :) !.

A project that I want to finish when it's 500fps and dead zeroed in to the scope.

What's the shooting distance as well for a sniper that's been upgraded with PDI and Laylax parts.

And what sort of scope would I need?

 
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DazMK5 said:
What make are they all? I'm going to use Laylax and PDI parts. I want this sniper to be the mutts nuts. It's not something I want to rush :) !

Also you mentioned washing your BBs?? Why do you do this?

And is that all the upgrades I will need? Nothing else?.

I'm going to get a PDI .01 barrel for it ;) .
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Some people have said that washing BBs gets any grease or crap off them that comes from the factory, personally, I've never tried it, and most people don't because they see it as a waste of time.

That's the minimum you'd need to get it to 500 FPS consistently, reliably and accurately. There are multiple brands that do those upgrade parts, generally the more expensive will be better.

If you've got the money then go for full PDI/LayLax parts, replace pretty much everything, get a zero-trigger over the standard design as it'll last pretty much forever.

Regarding barrels, I have a PDI 6.05x495mm in my L96, and get better results than I did with a 6.03x509mm. But, it'll be down to personal preference and what you decide depending on what you test/read. The general consensus that I've seen is that you want middle ground, so 6.03-6.05 would be best bet. There are now 6.23mm barrels, designed for accuracy at range, due to putting a large cushion of air around the BB, preventing it bouncing off the barrel as it travels down it.

DazMK5 said:
And I'll just buy barrel spacers lol :) ! I don't mind about cost. It's a project :) !.

A project that I want to finish when it's 500fps and dead zeroed in to the scope.

What's the shooting distance as well for a sniper that's been upgraded with PDI and Laylax parts.

And what sort of scope would I need?
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Save the money on them and save the hassle of getting them stuck in the outer barrel in the wrong place - I've done this quite a few times - and make your own. I've wrapped paper around my barrel the entire length, until it's almost as wide as the outer barrel, then put 5 sections of electrical tape at regular intervals along the paper, with a large enough diameter to make it a snug fit.

The range you get out of it depends on too many things, mainly being the time you put into fine tuning and the ability you have to fine tune it. With it upgraded fully, a perfect air seal, perfectly set hop up, people have said they can hit as far as 100m, some people claimed 120m, and I've seen one person claim they hit a 150m shot, but that was at 600 FPS. Most of these have been with R-Hops installed though, which I've tried and currently given up on. May have another shot at installing and fine tuning after Christmas.

I've hit 80m shots quite reliably on a man-sized target with my L96 with the follow parts in it:

Full ASPUK bolt upgrades, metal trigger unit from Airsoft World, ASPUK air seal hop, MadBull 6.03x650mm barrel, MadBull red hop rubber, with a Biro pen ink tube nub. Was shooting between 495 and 500 FPS.

Since getting Laylax/PDI parts and an R-Hop, I've not really had the time or motivation to get it set up well enough to hit anything over that.

So yeah, your range will depend on too many things for it to be estimated, but if you get a VSR, it'll have pretty decent range OOTB without upgrades, despite the low FPS.

 
I can also add that VSRs still perform well with low FPS.

Mine is pumping out a measly 255,+/- 1 FPS due to a degraded spring and I'm getting shot past 50m.

Barrel wise the PDi 6.05 and PDi 6.04 bores are some of the most accurate on the market. Their budget oriented Raven barrels are probably some of the best bang for buck barrels. Performance is just as good,if not in some cases better than the expensive SUS 304 barrels.

If you want a 90* system go for ASPUK EZ trigger, or the S trigger,much more reliable than the V trigger and Z trigger because they have less springs and moving parts and so on,also you support small custom works.

 
I'm getting 492-3FPS with 0.2's and consistently hit man sized targets @80m (firing 0.3g BB's when the wind is steady, b/c I'm still not experienced enough to judge shot offsets in blustery conditions) from a 590mm x 6.01mm Madbull barrel with a Prometheus purple hop rubber and an Element M135 spring in my A&K Dragunov.

 
Barrel spacers... mm, well as said before I've simply wrapped the barrel in A4 paper, it fills the void between the inner and outer perfectly.

As for what brand of upgrades are better. Many people swear by Laylax, others PDI however ASPUK has a pretty good reputation as one of the best upgraders in the UK if they stock it I'm pretty happy they have vetted it as reliable. Some of the parts are even made to their design. So some are own brand.

Washing bb's- I've tried washed and unwashed in mine and I have to whole heartedly go with washed in the sniper. Here are the benefits.

1) BB's come with a release agent they use in the moulds it is designed to make the surface slide out of the mould easier, it is not washed off in the process or if it does it isn't done well so they will arrive with varying degrees of coating. This means each bb will move past the hop in different ways. In a sniper the whole idea is consistency. By washing them they are all the same. Its actually not hard. You can wash them in diet coke followed by a warm water and dish soap, a rinse then dry on a baking sheet. I swap the diet coke for 7up Zero, its the acid content that seems to be doing the trick and the sugar is unwanted.

2) It reduces the crap on the bbs which means that there is less cleaning involved of the barrel and especially of the hop rubber. Which when gummed up will mean it releases at different times in different ways.

3) My accuracy has improved with the washed BB's over the unwashed.

Check out www.airsoftsniperforum.com there is a whole section on VSR's and a step by step of all the free upgrades. Most of the guys there have done extensive testing of everything they have done to their guns and there is a distillation of all that is good into their guides.

 
Unrustle_Thine_Jimmies said:
If you want a 90* system go for ASPUK EZ trigger, or the S trigger,much more reliable than the V trigger and Z trigger because they have less springs and moving parts and so on,also you support small custom works.
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One of the benefits of PDIs stuff is that you can get spares for everything, down to the trigger components and springs- that's something that I think is a big enough advantage to go for one- assuming you have the money to do so which the op does. You don't often hear of zero or V triggers breaking (unless adjusted too far) so it's not like the others are weak or anything.

As the OP says it's going to be a project and is willing to put a lot of money into it, then he may as well go for the expensive stuff rather than doing it on the cheap.

They work well with lower FPS but if you can go higher you might as well, what you lose in terms of volume you gain in performance.


 
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Cheers guys. I thought a 6.01 mm was more accurate and more FPS??

- more air behind the bb

- tighter guide for the bb so it doesn't move round in the barrel, and just flys straight?

This is the barrel I was thinking off,

http://www.x-fire.org/etop/01+.html

Might have to scroll down a bit to find the VSR-10. It's 3000 yen or something?

Is this a good barrel? Cheers :) !

 
DazMK5 said:
Cheers guys. I thought a 6.01 mm was more accurate and more FPS??

- more air behind the bb

- tighter guide for the bb so it doesn't move round in the barrel, and just flys straight?

This is the barrel I was thinking off,

http://www.x-fire.org/etop/01+.html

Might have to scroll down a bit to find the VSR-10. It's 3000 yen or something?

Is this a good barrel? Cheers :) !
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More fps but not necessarily more accurate, PDI's 6.05s have a great reputation. Generally a 430mm length is regarded as the best for a VSR in 6.03-6.05 diameter.

They also do these 6.04s with wider outer circumference meant to increase accuracy too

http://www.x-fire.org/etop/04.html

 
Go for the HD cylinder set- the VC is made for longer barrels and higher FPS figures.

Also, dont bother with the PDI hop chamber, it forces you to use AEG hop rubber and barrels- keep the tm original, it's better.

You'll need a spring yes- make sure it's a PDI one of the correct diameter, and you will need to upgrade the sears or buy a new trigger set, as the rest of your list is PDI, you'll want to get the PDI v trigger, mixing up different brand parts tends not to work out well.

That's about it I think :)

 
M_P said:
Go for the HD cylinder set- the VC is made for longer barrels and higher FPS figures.

Also, dont bother with the PDI hop chamber, it forces you to use AEG hop rubber and barrels- keep the tm original, it's better.

You'll need a spring yes- make sure it's a PDI one of the correct diameter, and you will need to upgrade the sears or buy a new trigger set, as the rest of your list is PDI, you'll want to get the PDI v trigger, mixing up different brand parts tends not to work out well.

That's about it I think :)
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Ok, so what I got above, but HD rather than VC, spring, .01 barrel, spring, sears and a trigger?

 
You won't need sears and a trigger, it's either or, however with everything else you'll have upgraded, you're better off with the complete trigger unit.

 
Bear in mind that a 6.01mm barrel will boost FPS noticeably - you may want to recalculate your spring power to stay under 500FPS.

 
Thanks Daz. They had to pester me a bit, but it's turned out to be less onerous than i feared it would be :)

The wisdom seems to be that cutting down springs is not a good idea. I imagine because you'd have to bend the cut end to get a flatter end, which still would not be properly flat, so would behave differently to a factory made one. If you think about how the coils of the spring are not all the same distance apart too, so each of the 5 main parts of the spring behave differently, which I imagine helps keep the thing centred on the spring guide and down the piston, rather than putting a lot of pressure on one side or another in a bid for freedom - if you mess with that, the consequences could be ugly - I mean there's enough power in a spring to break metal parts...

 
DazMK5 said:
Ok so trigger like this?

http://www.x-fire.org/vsr10/e.vsr_triggerset.html

Ian, will I be able to get a spring but if I'm shooting too hot, can I cut the spring, or is it better to just get a smaller one?

P.s congrats Ian on becoming mod ;)
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Personally, I get a spring that is rated for 500 FPS, and then cut a few coils off. There's no problem with doing that, quite a lot of people do it, Daz at ASPUK suggests it if people are a little over their target FPS. If you do that, only cut 1, maybe two coils (if you're a lot over your target FPS) at a time, and make sure it's filed down as much as you can. I don't bother making the cut end 'flat', as it's not going to happen, I use a bearing spring guide, so the plate of it can twist as the spring compresses and decompresses, and I put the cut end in the piston, otherwise it can slip over the base of the spring guide. Never had any problems with doing that.

Something to watch out for though, is if you cut a lot of coils off (like I did, cut 6 or 7 off as had to drop 100 FPS), the spring becomes considerably shorter. This means that the piston hits against the back of the cylinder head with less force, meaning a quieter rifle, but it also means the spring guide stopper can come out easier (at least, in an L96, not sure if this is a problem in VSRs, never had one to look at properly), as it's held in with spring tension.

Again, I'd suggest a wider-bored barrel, the majority of people who have snipers use 6.03-6.05 in them claiming better accuracy at range.

 
Liam Porter said:
Personally, I get a spring that is rated for 500 FPS, and then cut a few coils off. There's no problem with doing that, quite a lot of people do it, Daz at ASPUK suggests it if people are a little over their target FPS. If you do that, only cut 1, maybe two coils (if you're a lot over your target FPS) at a time, and make sure it's filed down as much as you can. I don't bother making the cut end 'flat', as it's not going to happen, I use a bearing spring guide, so the plate of it can twist as the spring compresses and decompresses, and I put the cut end in the piston, otherwise it can slip over the base of the spring guide. Never had any problems with doing that.

Something to watch out for though, is if you cut a lot of coils off (like I did, cut 6 or 7 off as had to drop 100 FPS), the spring becomes considerably shorter. This means that the piston hits against the back of the cylinder head with less force, meaning a quieter rifle, but it also means the spring guide stopper can come out easier (at least, in an L96, not sure if this is a problem in VSRs, never had one to look at properly), as it's held in with spring tension.

Again, I'd suggest a wider-bored barrel, the majority of people who have snipers use 6.03-6.05 in them claiming better accuracy at range.
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Ok, I'll have a look through barrels, so I need to buy, a trigger, barrel, spring, HD cylinder set, and shall I buy a dangerwerx arm to lift heavier BBs fr. Aspuk ?

 
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