Gear, mods and site rules

[Napper_Tapper]

Hi all,

I am a brand new player, I am going to be starting out at SWAS's site (I got some early info from Charles Williamson there and he kinda swayed me to airsoft) to get my UKARA defence to the VCRA, but my regular home field after that will be The Depot (Glasgow CQB Site), but probably will go to Section 8 sometime in future.

The reason I want to go CQB is because I'm, well, really fat. I weight 24 stone (I've been on a diet and doing a lot of walking and lost 3 stone in the past 2 and-a-bit-months) and I really don't want to lose the momentum on it. So I decided to take up a physical activity that is actually interesting (airsoft) that will also burn all my money so I don't have any spare to spend on junk food, etc. Running and going to the gym bores the living shit out of me, so I thought this would add the exciting element that makes it fun and not a chore. 

As I am far too unfit to run across fields and forrests like they have at Section 8, I am left with CQB, which is fine to me, it means I can go a bit slower and not look as super ridiculous on YouTube videos people seem to take at every game.

To that end, I am stuck with The Depot, which actually looks like a good venue but they do a song and dance about the "hard 350fps" limit they impose on muzzle velocities and how you will be sent home, even if you're only 1 fps over the limit. 

So I was hoping you guys could give me pointers, I have already narrowed my shortlist of primaries to:

GHK M4 RIS GBBR (10.5") which I like a lot because it looks like a stock M4 and has the aftermarket product support to make some changes (I was thinking RA-Tech titanium bolt and RA-Tech  aluminium nozzle as starting mods), or,

Umarex HK 417 GBBR which I like because the noise the bolt makes slamming home is just amazing, it also seems to have heavy recoil, which is something I want to add to the realistic aspect of it. The thing I don't like about it is the fact the bolt carrier is not all steel and that there is very little after market parts which I can find.

Does anyone have experience with these two rifles?

With both of them I am looking for advice to get both down to below 350 fps for The Depot as both of them shoot hotter than that stock. Doe's anyone have recommendations on how to reduce the fps? 

The reason I want a GBBR is because I want a somewhat realistic aspect to the game, I think there's some added excitment to the fact you need to change magazines and need to conserve ammo because each of the magazines you're carrying only have 30 rounds in them so you can't just spray or go full battles without reloading like an AEG player can. 

 

[Rogerborg]

I am going to be starting out at SWAS's site

Er, are we talking about the same site?  The only SWAS I know of is in Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire.

my regular home field after that will be The Depot (Glasgow CQB Site),

Ah, a man of taste.  It's a decent site and you'll be very welcome.  There are plenty of us there carrying a little extra padding, including most of the marshal team.  There are also generally opportunities to take a breather while defending an objective rather than running all over the site.

GHK M4 RIS GBBR (10.5") vs Umarex HK 417 GBBR

Crikey, you're not kidding about blowing your wad on airsoft.  Bear in mind that GBBR mags don't come cheap either.

Getting the FPS under 350 should just be a matter of running Nuprol 1.0 or 144a gas.  They'll also run at lower power when it's cooler.  Beyond that I'll defer to the GBBR gurus.

Before we get into the usual "get an AEG!" spat, if you're going to be playing predominantly at the Depot, then I'll note that running a pistol as a primary is perfectly feasible.  I'm currently having a blast running a £56 AA G17 which shoots well enough at the short ranges there and gives some nice haptic feedback.  There are also GBB SMGs available (MP7, MP5, Mac 10/11) from a variety of providers that run a lot cheaper than the full size GBBRs and they'll do just as well or better in CQB.

That's also why they're careful about energy limits, as you can take one in the face point blank.

 

[DrAlexanderTobacco]

First of all - welcome to airsoft! Great hobby, especially for losing some weight (even if you're just walking around, better than being on the couch!)

I wouldn't necessarily discount woodland, there's a case to be made for pushing up cautiously, running in very short bursts from cover to cover etc - I would give it a go maybe once every 4 visits to see how you get on. Running in short bursts is essentially HIIT which can be excellent for losing weight/building up stamina. You would be surprised at how quickly you can build up stamina, even if you're a big boy.

I was going to write some more stuff about GBBRs but Rogerborg beat me to it. I do echo his opinion that pistols are perfectly viable in CQB, and it's a cheap way to get into the hobby. If you've never played at all (something not clear from your post) then I'd honestly recommend just sticking with the rental guns for a few skirmishes, at least until you've got your UKARA - you'll have a better idea of whether you'll get on with AEGs.

 

[Napper_Tapper]

Er, are we talking about the same site?  The only SWAS I know of is in Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire.

Crikey, you're not kidding about blowing your wad on airsoft.  Bear in mind that GBBR mags don't come cheap either.

Getting the FPS under 350 should just be a matter of running Nuprol 1.0 or 144a gas.  They'll also run at lower power when it's cooler.  Beyond that I'll defer to the GBBR gurus.

Yes, it is the site in Cambridgeshire, I am based in Glasgow but I don't mind going down there a few times to get UKARA, I feel I owe Charles from there an appearance as he was very friendly and helpful when I spoke to him previously. I am quite self-conscious about my weight and I was initially only going to get a two-tone gun and plink (I live in Scotland and we need a Firearms License for a .177 bb gun or air rifle and I can't be bothered with all those hoops to jump through) but he talked me round to airsoft.

I really don't mind the cost, after the initial purchase of the gun I can throw about £300 a month at gear or site fees. It's better than spending it on McDonalds or some other muck.

On the subject of pistols I really want the WE Dragon 7.0 in red, it just looks crazy! It's sized as a double stack 1911 so I would just load it with 15 BBs to simulate reality.

Replying to DrAlexander:

That's right mate, I have never played the game before. I am brand new to airsoft but I have experience with actual firearms, I used to have a Section 1 Firearms Certificate (.22LR and .223 remington) and a Section 2 Shotgun Certificate (only had a Hatsan Escort 3-shot semi-auto) but I don't go hunting anymore and don't have any land to hunt on so I don't fufil the "good reason" requirement for Section 1 anymore. 

 

[Musica]

I played at the depot with a pistol last time I was there and enjoyed it very much. You get gas blowback and a 30 round magazine  but at a fraction of the price of the GBBR. I don't think you can really compete with AEGs outdoors with a GBBP and when they have a 200 round mid cap in their AEG or a 300-2000 round hi cap mag you will be out gunned with a GBBR too.   

I was discouraged from starting with a GBBP and it holds true that if I had just got one I wouldn't of been able to use it effectively a Section 8 or any outdoor field and until you play a few games you won't know what you prefer or don't like so locking your self in with purchasing decisions could be expensive. If you don't want to waste money you could rent at both sites to get a feel for what style of play you like.  You will struggle with ammo at S8 I ran through all 4 of my 75 round evo mags and then reloaded them in the middle of the fire fight and ran through them again while on defence at s8.  If you were running 30 rounders you'd need to reload the actual magazines a lot.

For your fitness I've only went to s8 once but I spent a lot of time crawling on the ground with bbs flying over my head. There is a lot of walking but no that much running.  I only sprinted a handful of times. I sprint a lot more at the depot to cross fire fights or for objective pushes. Either way both days are a good workout. If your trying to do this to get fit or fitter than I'd suggest mixing up the depot with another site that runs on the other weekend as depot and s8 run on the same Sunday every 2 weeks so you could slip in 1 game a week if you went to say Fife wargames or players of war airsoft (I haven't been to either yet so can't recommend the).

As long as you know what your in for it's your toy guns. 

Also if you end up renting at the depot I highly recommend getting your own face protection as their masks are not good ?

 

[Napper_Tapper]

I played at the depot with a pistol last time I was there and enjoyed it very much. You get gas blowback and a 30 round magazine  but at a fraction of the price of the GBBR. I don't think you can really compete with AEGs outdoors with a GBBP and when they have a 200 round mid cap in their AEG or a 300-2000 round hi cap mag you will be out gunned with a GBBR too.   

I was discouraged from starting with a GBBP and it holds true that if I had just got one I wouldn't of been able to use it effectively a Section 8 or any outdoor field and until you play a few games you won't know what you prefer or don't like so locking your self in with purchasing decisions could be expensive. If you don't want to waste money you could rent at both sites to get a feel for what style of play you like.  You will struggle with ammo at S8 I ran through all 4 of my 75 round evo mags and then reloaded them in the middle of the fire fight and ran through them again while on defence at s8.  If you were running 30 rounders you'd need to reload the actual magazines a lot.

For your fitness I've only went to s8 once but I spent a lot of time crawling on the ground with bbs flying over my head. There is a lot of walking but no that much running.  I only sprinted a handful of times. I sprint a lot more at the depot to cross fire fights or for objective pushes. Either way both days are a good workout. If your trying to do this to get fit or fitter than I'd suggest mixing up the depot with another site that runs on the other weekend as depot and s8 run on the same Sunday every 2 weeks so you could slip in 1 game a week if you went to say Fife wargames or players of war airsoft (I haven't been to either yet so can't recommend the).

As long as you know what your in for it's your toy guns. 

Also if you end up renting at the depot I highly recommend getting your own face protection as their masks are not good ?

Fair enough, so you're essentially saying it's all well and good having dreams of trying to bring a little bit of milsim into the equation with realistic ammo count, etc but once I've tried my hand at playing the games I'll not find it as fun because I am being out-gunned all the time?

Fair enough, I think the first thing I am going to do is get into The Depot with a rental gun and buy a good mask.

Might see some of the guys here there this month (well... July) then! Anyone willing to show a fat noob the ropes?

 

[EDcase]

I think a GBBR would be more appropriate for true milsim days but you'll have to be quite dedicated and experienced for one of those as they typically run much longer than standard skirmishes.  Best to start with an AEG and then move to GBBR if you still want to later and good to have AEG as a backup too.

 

[djben9]

Welcome....

Yeah CW is a great guy, 

let me know when your coming to SWAS....a bit of a drive so assume a stay over!

You can get UKARA as many times as you want, ive got two numbers so allows an over lap so dont worry if you cant get to SWAS 3 times, you can get it nearer home as well, CW will be fine

post up in  the link below.....ive still not been able to get there but desperate to try as its only a 20min drive!
 

 

[Musica]

Get some good eye protection and boots if you looking to spend some money. Boot aren't that important in the depot but the bigger tread does help find some traction when you step on a pile of bbs and in the outdoors your ankles will thank you for the support for all the uneven ground/rocks / roots you need to walk over. I know your doing it for the fitness but I'd get a sling so when your dead you don't need to hold your rifle works on rental guns and can transfer to what ever gun you end up getting. 

If you've got money to burn then get a rental slot but also buy a two tone pistol  (they often only two tone the slide some times the grips but these are sold for spares/repairs but you do so at your own risk) You can then try out blow back vs AEG and see how you fair with the rounds being lower. I seemed to manage with 3x30 round magazines at the depot but I don't shoot very much unless I have a sight picture and a target unlike some play styles.  One thing I really liked about my pistol was I could drop my mag out and get a visual indicator of my ammo level in that magazine to swap it our keep going. 

 

[Tackle]

good footwear, good eye pro (fullface/separates/glasses, your choice), & an AEG, doesn't have to cost the earth, its a starter to get you playing & also to help you decide what platforms (m4/ak/mp5 etc) "fits" you & your comfortable with.

then, with more experience, you can think about gbbr's or whatever else you think floats your boat, knowing that you've got an adequate non expensive back up aeg when all the other uber expensive temperamental kit lets you down.......which it will ?

View attachment 47148

 

[Rogerborg]

Fair enough, I think the first thing I am going to do is get into The Depot with a rental gun and buy a good mask.

That's a sound plan.  The rental G36s there are decent enough and they'll give you a feel for whether you want to buy an AEG, even if it's only as a back up in case your GBBR / pistol throws a wobbly on a game day.  It can be a day-saver, and I always keep something spare around.

£52 for a rental day at the Depot seems steep, but you're getting about £8 worth of BBs which you'll get through eventually so the gun rental itself comes out to about £12.

The rental masks are indeed awful and nearly put me off, so I would thoroughly recommend getting some eye and face protection of your own.  Dye i4 masks are the all-in-one solution, but some people can fog them up.  There are plenty of things that you can try if you're a sweater: fan goggles, Pyramex iForce double glazed glasses, or I run DIY double-glazed goggles.  Anti-fog wipes and potions may or may not work for you.

If you really can't get on with polycarb, then you'll have to go to mesh, and the gold standard for that is @heroshark who will put decent mesh (much better than the thin Chinamesh in rental or cheap masks) into pretty much any frame that you want.

It's very much a case of having to find out what works for you under fire.  You may have to try a few options to find something that suits, but it's worth perservering.

That WE Hi Capa 7.0 Dragon does look lush, and would even look genuinely swish in the Burgandy red that PatrolBase tend to use.  One note of caution, I've seen some chat that about older WE 1911s having issues, although that may be old news, or not applicable to the hi-capas.

I'm seeing if I can get a permission slip from SWMBO for the 7th at the Depot.  If I'm there you'll be very welcome to try my GBB pistol and whatever else I bring.

 

[Musica]

£52 for a rental day at the Depot seems steep, but you're getting about £8 worth of BBs which you'll get through eventually so the gun rental itself comes out to about £12.

I'm seeing if I can get a permission slip from SWMBO for the 7th at the Depot.  If I'm there you'll be very welcome to try my GBB pistol and whatever else I bring.

I stil haven't fired 3000 rounds of my .20g I think my next game I might finish my first bottle with 2 more to go.

I'm doing fire war games this weekend and maybe depot on the 7th.

 

[Napper_Tapper]

Yeah CW is a great guy, let me know when your coming to SWAS....a bit of a drive so assume a stay over!

I will definately let you know when I am, it looks like I am going to be at The Depot first doing a rental, but I'm still going to pay SWAS a visit, good to know I have someone else to go with down there now. 

Get some good eye protection and boots if you looking to spend some money. Boot aren't that important in the depot but the bigger tread does help find some traction when you step on a pile of bbs and in the outdoors your ankles will thank you for the support for all the uneven ground/rocks / roots you need to walk over.

If you've got money to burn then get a rental slot but also buy a two tone pistol  (they often only two tone the slide some times the grips but these are sold for spares/repairs but you do so at your own risk) You can then try out blow back vs AEG and see how you fair with the rounds being lower. I seemed to manage with 3x30 round magazines at the depot but I don't shoot very much unless I have a sight picture and a target unlike some play styles.  One thing I really liked about my pistol was I could drop my mag out and get a visual indicator of my ammo level in that magazine to swap it our keep going. 

On the subject of boots, I am ashamed to admit it but I never thought about that. Does anyone have recommendations on boots? I am a UK size 13 so options will probably be limited. 

On the subject of buying a two-tone pistol (or any other two tone gun) then using black spares... no thanks, for the avoidance of doubt I don't mind people doing that themselves, but me: if I didn't have bad luck I would have no luck and I live in Scotland where anything even remotely related to firearms is demonised. I will not take any chances whatsoever, I will only do things 100% to the letter for fear of Strathclyde's finest coming and God-stomping me. 

£52 for a rental day at the Depot seems steep, but you're getting about £8 worth of BBs which you'll get through eventually so the gun rental itself comes out to about £12.

The rental masks are indeed awful and nearly put me off, so I would thoroughly recommend getting some eye and face protection of your own.  Dye i4 masks are the all-in-one solution, but some people can fog them up.  There are plenty of things that you can try if you're a sweater: fan goggles, Pyramex iForce double glazed glasses, or I run DIY double-glazed goggles.  Anti-fog wipes and potions may or may not work for you.

If you really can't get on with polycarb, then you'll have to go to mesh, and the gold standard for that is @heroshark who will put decent mesh (much better than the thin Chinamesh in rental or cheap masks) into pretty much any frame that you want.

It's very much a case of having to find out what works for you under fire.  You may have to try a few options to find something that suits, but it's worth perservering.

That WE Hi Capa 7.0 Dragon does look lush, and would even look genuinely swish in the Burgandy red that PatrolBase tend to use.  One note of caution, I've seen some chat that about older WE 1911s having issues, although that may be old news, or not applicable to the hi-capas.



I'm seeing if I can get a permission slip from SWMBO for the 7th at the Depot.  If I'm there you'll be very welcome to try my GBB pistol and whatever else I bring.

I did think £52 was very expensive then I noticed it's £32 for your own kit and I still think that's expensive for at most: 7 hours of playtime. Then I thought about it and it kinda makes sense that its' so expensive since they only seem to do it every two weeks. Do they really only open the place every second Sunday? Why is airsoft not weekly? Is this common around Scotland too? 

On the WE Dragon 7, I can't find anyone with it in stock other than black, so my plan is to get it once I have UKARA and then pay someone to powder coat the slide in metallic candy red and then electroplate the other parts in contrasting gold. Yep, I am a magpie and I know a lot of you will find that a horrible idea, but I think it would look sexy as fuck. 

 

[Musica]

For boots anything will do it's mostly ankle support your after. Some folk at outdoor sites wade though thick mud or other such nastyness so other features like waterproofing might be applicable then but I perfer a nice side zip to  get them on and off quickly.

Commendable not buying two tone and modding it as modifying a IF to a RIF is consdered an offence

£52 isn't that expensive when you consider how much you would pay to go watch a movie or golf or some other such hobby.  The real trick is when you spend hundreds on gear and guns to save that 20 pound rental fee.

 

[Prisce]

I will definately let you know when I am, it looks like I am going to be at The Depot first doing a rental, but I'm still going to pay SWAS a visit, good to know I have someone else to go with down there now. 

On the subject of boots, I am ashamed to admit it but I never thought about that. Does anyone have recommendations on boots? I am a UK size 13 so options will probably be limited. 

On the subject of buying a two-tone pistol (or any other two tone gun) then using black spares... no thanks, for the avoidance of doubt I don't mind people doing that themselves, but me: if I didn't have bad luck I would have no luck and I live in Scotland where anything even remotely related to firearms is demonised. I will not take any chances whatsoever, I will only do things 100% to the letter for fear of Strathclyde's finest coming and God-stomping me. 

I did think £52 was very expensive then I noticed it's £32 for your own kit and I still think that's expensive for at most: 7 hours of playtime. Then I thought about it and it kinda makes sense that its' so expensive since they only seem to do it every two weeks. Do they really only open the place every second Sunday? Why is airsoft not weekly? Is this common around Scotland too? 

On the WE Dragon 7, I can't find anyone with it in stock other than black, so my plan is to get it once I have UKARA and then pay someone to powder coat the slide in metallic candy red and then electroplate the other parts in contrasting gold. Yep, I am a magpie and I know a lot of you will find that a horrible idea, but I think it would look sexy as fuck. 

I was lead to believe this was due to planning permission. You can run 26 events a year on any site without permission(fortnightly) but any more and you require planning permission to use the site for that purpose. Sites like AP run weekly because they own the land and have it registered as an Airsoft Site.

 

[Rogerborg]

On the subject of boots, I am ashamed to admit it but I never thought about that. Does anyone have recommendations on boots?

I wear surplus British army goretex lined assault boots.  And I mean I wear them for everything: airsoft, office, leisure, motorcycling, the lot.  Be warned, my last pair cost all of £35 and only lasted 5 years of near daily use.

I did think £52 was very expensive then I noticed it's £32 for your own kit and I still think that's expensive for at most: 7 hours of playtime.

They're renting the building, and you can book in the confidence that you can play in all weathers.  Outdoors is cheaper, but I haven't been for over a year because, damn, West coast weather.

One nit is that up until last week they did a basic lunch on site, but they've sacked that off so it's bring your own from now on (or order in from their preferred supplier which I'd never do given the potential for it to get screwed up).

On the WE Dragon 7, I can't find anyone with it in stock other than black

PatrolBase will two-tone it to order, it'll just take a couple more days to dispatch.

 

[Musica]

One nit is that up until last week they did a basic lunch on site, but they've sacked that off so it's bring your own from now on (or order in from their preferred supplier which I'd never do given the potential for it to get screwed up).

They started that when I went last. My friend got a burger and said it was alright but they should offer sauces/condiments. Is a bit of a cunt move to take away the food and charge the same but I have only been going for 7 months when was the last time they put the prices up? Could just be their way of making it cost nutral without charging more. 

I always bring my own stuff but I always took the hotdog and gave it away as I was paying for it.

 

[Rogerborg]

They've only recently started paying the marshals, so I expect that they're eating our lunches, so to speak.  Fortunately, I've been smuggling a pack of emergency peanuts since I started airsoft, so I finally got to survive on those.

Right, I'm booked in for the 7th.  Scowls from Mrs Borg, but that's nothing new.

I'll have the usual collection of spare toy guns and googles for anyone wanting to try them out.