FPS limit?

[Rogerborg]

Sites should chrono with their own BBs, using the heaviest that they allow on site. And they should have a limit because as noted passim, anything above 0.45g is likely to be more metal or ceramic than plastic.

That's simple enough to do, although I'm sure suggesting any changes to the 0.2g default will trigger someone and make them unhappy.

If a site can't be bothered doing that, then chronoing is just Safety Theatre and might as well be voluntary.

 

[Samurai]

Chronoing an AEG with 0.45+ can result negative joule creep, so the ones using 0.2 or even 0.23-25 might be hot. And those are many more than ppl being hot with their heavy BBs when chronoing with light.

0.32 or 0.36 would be the middle ground, that's what I'm campaigning for.

 

[Musica]

I think we all know the only way to do it right is the bb weight they use in game with hop set how they play using joules not FPS.  Tests need to be done with players bbs and site bbs to confirm readings are within 5-10% of each other. 

Spot checks should be more common and very random like have the station set up at the end of games and tap  3 or 4 players to report for testing. 

Punishment needs to be immediate ejection from the site for the day.  At the end of the day it's too hard to prevent people cheating but a marshal could carry 3-5 pistol speed loaders marked with .20g .25g .30g .40g bbs ask the player what they are running shoot their bbs at their word take the readings shoot the sites bbs at that weight compare.  

My site has 0.25g limit but I wonder how they would test for someone using a 0.28g? scales aren't accurate enough so the miss match in FPS readings might be enough of a red flag.  

 

[Albiscuit]

Hard as it is ? totally agree with trigger on this one , chrono should only use the simplest system possible , once you start introducing any deviation from this it’ll all go to rat shit ! The big spanner in the works if you try anything different is the players plain and simple , you’ll have smart arse ones gobbing off about all the variants mentioned, you’ll have noobs asking boneheaded questions because they’ve heard some gobshite trying to be clever about ‘Joule creep’ or god knows what else and before you know it the warm up game is taking place at bloody midday ! ?‍?

chrono is most definitely one occasion were K.I.S.S. Should be applied 100% .

Agreed, as a player its a pain in the arse, but a necessity for sure.  

I get the variables even if I dont understand them, but never had an issue with chrono and except for the sites which dont chrono, or make it voluntary I cant say I have ever witnessed anything too serious or anyone kicking off due to a hot gun.

Taking a reading on .2s as supplied by the site does seem the standard way and must be the most effective as thats what most places use.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

I think we all know the only way to do it right is the bb weight they use in game with hop set how they play using joules not FPS.  Tests need to be done with players bbs and site bbs to confirm readings are within 5-10% of each other. 

Spot checks should be more common and very random like have the station set up at the end of games and tap  3 or 4 players to report for testing. 

Punishment needs to be immediate ejection from the site for the day.  At the end of the day it's too hard to prevent people cheating but a marshal could carry 3-5 pistol speed loaders marked with .20g .25g .30g .40g bbs ask the player what they are running shoot their bbs at their word take the readings shoot the sites bbs at that weight compare.  

My site has 0.25g limit but I wonder how they would test for someone using a 0.28g? scales aren't accurate enough so the miss match in FPS readings might be enough of a red flag.  

And when chrono takes 3 hrs and first game is lunch time then players will be really happy?.

The relatively small issue of joule creep is nothing compared to a queue of a hundred bored airsofters. Most guns the joule creep is a few fps. Never seen anything  jump too much except for people who deliberately cheat.

You really think players will enjoy getting pulled out of game to be chrono checked? 

 

[Musica]

And when chrono takes 3 hrs and first game is lunch time then players will be really happy?.

The relatively small issue of joule creep is nothing compared to a queue of a hundred bored airsofters. Most guns the joule creep is a few fps. Never seen anything to jump much except for people who deliberately cheat.

You really think players will enjoy getting pulled out of game to be chrono checked? 

I agree it would take a long time and I don't think it should be taken just like real life the criminals get smarter to outsmart the laws and barriers in the place to stop them.

The mandatory crono is the best method to catch the people who don't know and aren't intentionally taking hot guns in but just got them and haven't a clue . The second reason it's useful is to prove the gun passed with known weight bbs so if later on they have no defence that they didn't know it was hot as they have made modifications since chrono. I think sites should say in the rules that any modifications done to the gun after the mandatory chrono means it needs re-tested and it won't be a defence if they are caught running hot. 

Personally I want tested so that I know the guns shooting me have been tested. 

 I guess what we could think about is a way to find the arses who run hot quicker. 

 

[gasman]

Unless you want to have a 3hr chrono line and lie detector test for when players declare their ammo then yes it is. Most sites have a maximum of an hour to chrono anywhere from 50 to 150 players so quick and simple works best.

Lots of players talk about how easy things are with no clue on what it is really like. You try and herd a 100 airsofters through chrono. It amazes me no marshal has ever thrown in the towel and beat some dumb argumentative little fucker to death with his raider yet.

I was trying to chrono players at the weekend and I found a lot of guns were hot so trying to explain why, when they reply well its under 350 that is supposed to be, on a .2 not a .32. You do loos the will to live!

 

[Rogerborg]

I was trying to chrono players at the weekend and I found a lot of guns were hot so trying to explain why, when they reply well its under 350 that is supposed to be, on a .2 not a .32

Innocent ignorance, or getting caught at it?

 

[Tackle]

Innocent ignorance, or getting caught at it?

my moneys on "getting caught at it", too many players seem to be intent on getting, what they perceive, to be some kind of advantage, however small,

which to me is laughable, just get out & play ffs.

I suppose it goes hand in hand with non hit taking etc etc, if I could find a site that could eradicate all the aspects of cheating (& give well organised gamedays), id never play anywhere else.

 

[Rogerborg]

Mmm, I don't want to judge unseen, but it's so easy for players to say "Me no understand Joules-per-squared-airsoft-metres-per-second rules," if they do get caught. 

When I'm King of Airsoft, they'll be lined up against a wall and shot with their own not-technically-airsoft-guns in the voonerables.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Mmm, I don't want to judge unseen, but it's so easy for players to say "Me no understand Joules-per-squared-airsoft-metres-per-second rules," if they do get caught. 

When I'm King of Airsoft, they'll be lined up against a wall and shot with their own not-technically-airsoft-guns in the voonerables.

i'm 50/50 purely because so many folk do genuinely seem to have no clue how to physic

although granted it's an easy excuse, alongside the "it's a TM it can't be hot", "green gas pistols aren't hot" etc etc

 

[Musica]

Mmm, I don't want to judge unseen, but it's so easy for players to say "Me no understand Joules-per-squared-airsoft-metres-per-second rules," if they do get caught. 

When I'm King of Airsoft, they'll be lined up against a wall and shot with their own not-technically-airsoft-guns in the voonerables.

Sites need to just make sure ignorance isn't a defence. Swift ejection for the day and repeat offences resulting in bans.

Just like not knowing murder is a crime doesn't mean you can go around killing. 

 

[SgtTalbert]

Sites need to just make sure ignorance isn't a defence. Swift ejection for the day and repeat offences resulting in bans.

Just like not knowing murder is a crime doesn't mean you can go around killing. 

Apart from the fact you're assuming all airsoft players know how to open up a GB or even bother changing the spring.

As a marshal, there are A LOT more players with money than there are airsofters with technical abilities. I had one airsofter a few weeks ago, didn't know how to take the slide off his Glock.

So I get you're new and all....but assuming everyone with a 'hot' rifle/pistol knows they have one is nearly as bad as assuming every time you pull the trigger you have hit someone. 

If you buy a rifle from a shop and you don't have a chrono at home (I don't) then the first time you chrono it will be at a site. Also remember, there are sites with shit chronos and sites with good chronos - both will report different stats. 

 

[Musica]

Apart from the fact you're assuming all airsoft players know how to open up a GB or even bother changing the spring.

As a marshal, there are A LOT more players with money than there are airsofters with technical abilities. I had one airsofter a few weeks ago, didn't know how to take the slide off his Glock.

So I get you're new and all....but assuming everyone with a 'hot' rifle/pistol knows they have one is nearly as bad as assuming every time you pull the trigger you have hit someone. 

If you buy a rifle from a shop and you don't have a chrono at home (I don't) then the first time you chrono it will be at a site. Also remember, there are sites with shit chronos and sites with good chronos - both will report different stats. 

Woah slow down there. I get it could have been taken as anyone showing up with a hot gun needs a swift hand of justice but that wasn't my intent. 

Caught with a hot gun in a game vs at the mandatory chrono are 2 separate things. That's why the  morning chrono exists to prove all tested guns fired UNDER an acceptable level an as such if later on they are not in the same game day then someone with a quick change spring or high pressure gas has some explaining to do. 

If someone is shooting a unchronoed gun in game, Kick em even if it's not hot. If someone is shooting hot on a tested gun ban them. 

 

[Rogerborg]

"Mandatory" chrono still relies on goodwill.  It's easy enough to change gas, or quick change springs, some guns have a spring tensioner screw, or you can just wind the hop up to full.  I still get my MP5K chronoed and tagged every day, but all that's doing is holding up the line since it comes in at 315fps time after time and is never going to magically jump over 350.

I'd like to see pre-game chronoing encouraged, and advice made available to folk.  However, that only takes care of those who are wanting to play nicely, and they're not likely to be the problem.

What I would like to see a lot more of is in-game chronoing throughout the day, starting with the marshals and working down.  I've only been chronoed in-game twice that I recall (and one of those was when the marshal assumed my G36C was one of the site hire guns, and I was honest enough to say that it wasn't and asked to be checked), and I can't remember ever having the Safety Theatre tag checked.

 

[Druid799]

Simply ignore all the ‘the joule creep/ FPS to mtre’ crap chrono everyone on a site supplied .2 leave the hop set as it would be for what ever weight your normally running , if it passes the site limits with a reasonable margin for error or variation (went to a site that said 340+5fps any thing over needed a secondary look) you can use it , it don’t pass ? You don’t use it . 

Plus random chrono’ing during the day , your gun fails ? Your off site no if’s or but’s , your gone .

End off .

if retailers actually ensured the guns they sell were compliant with the sport wide ‘recommended FPS’ (why should I the customer have to spend more time and money making my new gun usable AND invalidating the warranty in the proses because the retailers can’t be arsed or are just so arrogant they don’t care?)  and if players didn’t fixate on the magical “if I get it exactly to 350fps I will hit everyone I aim at !” We wouldn’t have most problems we have with ‘hot’ guns would we ? 

 

[Musica]

"Mandatory" chrono still relies on goodwill.  It's easy enough to change gas, or quick change springs, some guns have a spring tensioner screw, or you can just wind the hop up to full.  I still get my MP5K chronoed and tagged every day, but all that's doing is holding up the line since it comes in at 315fps time after time and is never going to magically jump over 350. 

I'd like to see pre-game chronoing encouraged, and advice made available to folk.  However, that only takes care of those who are wanting to play nicely, and they're not likely to be the problem.

What I would like to see a lot more of is in-game chronoing throughout the day, starting with the marshals and working down.  I've only been chronoed in-game twice that I recall (and one of those was when the marshal assumed my G36C was one of the site hire guns, and I was honest enough to say that it wasn't and asked to be checked), and I can't remember ever having the Safety Theatre tag checked.

What do you mean starting with the marshals and working down?

They have to check every gun because they need no shadow of a doubt when some arse has a hot gun in the game that they are altering something probably on purpose to either do people harm or get an "advantage" in CQB it's going to be hurting people.

 

[SgtTalbert]

We also walk about with a couple of chronos and randomly chrono players walking back to regen.

We also check chrono tags before each game to make sure no weapons have been switched

 

[Rogerborg]

What do you mean starting with the marshals and working down?

That the site owner should check the marshals' guns in game.

They have to check every gun because they need no shadow of a doubt when some arse has a hot gun in the game that they are altering something probably on purpose

Or that they've skipped pre-game chrono, which is the problem with relying on it.  It doesn't really matter how a hot gun got in game if the policy is to punt folk out if they're caught.  But they need to actually do it, and do it a lot more.  I'd be happy to be checked far more often at respawn, or while waiting for folk to turn up at the briefing ramp.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Or that they've skipped pre-game chrono, which is the problem with relying on it.  It doesn't really matter how a hot gun got in game if the policy is to punt folk out if they're caught.  But they need to actually do it, and do it a lot more.  I'd be happy to be checked far more often at respawn, or while waiting for folk to turn up at the briefing ramp.

indeed, i wouldn't mind being checked as long as i'm not getting pulled out of a firefight without a good reason.

an honest player shouldn't have a problem being spot checked, if someone's getting salty about it that'd ring warning bells.