Double Eagle M904g – Aka the Original Q Honey Badger

[JVacation]

@Fatboy40it's also a cactus jack version of the m904. I believe there are 3 companies currently "making" the same gun. 

I've noticed a bit of a drop in my fps lately too. Especially with the heavier ammo. Shooting about 0.88j on 28s but 1j on 20s.

Let me know how you get on with the spring. Are you still running your oem inner barrel? 

 

[Fatboy40]

@Fatboy40it's also a cactus jack version of the m904. I believe there are 3 companies currently "making" the same gun. 

I've noticed a bit of a drop in my fps lately too. Especially with the heavier ammo. Shooting about 0.88j on 28s but 1j on 20s.

Let me know how you get on with the spring. Are you still running your oem inner barrel? 

DE also manufacture under the "QAP" brand (which appears to me more prevalent in Japan?), Cactus Jack is a new one on me, thanks for the heads up.

The Guarder SP100 has sorted things nicely, and AK2M4 has said that he's noticed hardly any compression of the spring in his own testing (which I think has gone into the tens of thousands of shots). I'm still running the OEM inner barrel, however an ML bucking and nub, and I doubt I'll change it as I'm right at the UK AEG limit FPS wise and with the ML bits my grouping is more than good enough.

(I'm hoping to spend my Xmas bonus on an M904F though, build a DMR with it, and that will more than likely get a different inner barrel).

 

[doom9]

What have you all used and had best results from? 

Stock hop up unit, Maple Leaf Barrel and Maple Leaf Super Macaron 60 degree bucking. No modification needed, stock internals (360fps even after tens of thousands of bbs). It's more than accurate for CQB but I still believe it could do better for outdoors (maybe Maple Leaf Mr. Hop bucking and/or ZCI barrel, idk).

 

[Gonz.]

I've got an M904G and seen some of you mention putting maple leaf macaron hop rubbers on the standard barrel, but mine doesn't seem to fit properly. The protruding part on the inside of the rubber doesn't quite fit the cutout in the barrel.

When I push the rubber down through the cutout, the wider end of the protrusion catches on the thin piece of barrel between the cutout and the end of the barrel. If I stretch the rubber on to the barrel a bit more it works fine, but the rubber won't stay there on its own. 

I've measured the thin section of barrel between the cutout and the end at 2mm and I think the clearance between the rubber inner protrusion and the end of the rubber (on the inside) is about 1.5mm.

The rubbers are from @ak2m4 so are genuine. Does anyone know whether the rubbers are out of tolerance or is 2mm of barrel section more than normal? I'm also interested to know if the ZCI barrel has a thinner section between cutout and end.

Would appreciate any pointers. 

Airsoft Dad. 

 

[JVacation]

I've got an M904G and seen some of you mention putting maple leaf macaron hop rubbers on the standard barrel, but mine doesn't seem to fit properly. The protruding part on the inside of the rubber doesn't quite fit the cutout in the barrel.

When I push the rubber down through the cutout, the wider end of the protrusion catches on the thin piece of barrel between the cutout and the end of the barrel. If I stretch the rubber on to the barrel a bit more it works fine, but the rubber won't stay there on its own. 

I've measured the thin section of barrel between the cutout and the end at 2mm and I think the clearance between the rubber inner protrusion and the end of the rubber (on the inside) is about 1.5mm.

The rubbers are from @ak2m4 so are genuine. Does anyone know whether the rubbers are out of tolerance or is 2mm of barrel section more than normal? I'm also interested to know if the ZCI barrel has a thinner section between cutout and end.

Would appreciate any pointers. 

Airsoft Dad. 

Have you tested the gun with it fully built? It may not be a huge issue. 

I am running a zci 229mm which seems to be fine however the lips need trimming for reliable feeding.

It is also possible your hopup rubber is a anomaly and is a bit different to the rest. 

 

[Gonz.]

Have you tested the gun with it fully built? It may not be a huge issue. 

I am running a zci 229mm which seems to be fine however the lips need trimming for reliable feeding.

It is also possible your hopup rubber is a anomaly and is a bit different to the rest. 

Thanks for responding.

I haven't tested it because I can see the contact area of the rubber does not clear the cutout in the barrel. The Macaron contact area has a triangle shape and it's the base of the triangle that is catching. Consequently it's only the point of the triangle that is pushing down through the cutout and that won't be able to provide a consistent hop. 

I have 2 new Macaron 60 deg rubbers and both are the same. This is what they look like, which apart from the untidy edge on the inside, seem to be fairly consistent with stock images like the one below.  

View attachment 79718View attachment 79719

Thanks for the info on having to trim the rubber lips with the ZCI barrel. 

If you still have the original barrel, would you be able to measure the thin bit of barrel between the cutout and the end? 

 

[Fatboy40]

@Gonz. I still run the standard inner barrel in my M904E, which is exactly the same as the M904G apart from the buffer tube / stock, as my FPS on 0.20g is around 346 so don't want my gun to be hot.

I run an ML Macaron 60 degree and Omega nub in the stock hop unit, and agree that the ML bucking is tight, you do have to use some force and possibly a little silicon oil to get it to sit well on the barrel and have the "patch" properly in the barrel's hole (the lip has been fine for me).

I'll be honest in that I know the bucking is not sitting 100% perfectly, however it hops perfectly and grouping is spot on.

 

[JVacation]

Thanks for responding.

I haven't tested it because I can see the contact area of the rubber does not clear the cutout in the barrel. The Macaron contact area has a triangle shape and it's the base of the triangle that is catching. Consequently it's only the point of the triangle that is pushing down through the cutout and that won't be able to provide a consistent hop. 

I have 2 new Macaron 60 deg rubbers and both are the same. This is what they look like, which apart from the untidy edge on the inside, seem to be fairly consistent with stock images like the one below.  

View attachment 79718View attachment 79719



Thanks for the info on having to trim the rubber lips with the ZCI barrel. 

If you still have the original barrel, would you be able to measure the thin bit of barrel between the cutout and the end? 

Just had a look and it does seem like it has the same issue as you have mentioned. 

Fatboy40 says it shouldn't cause any issues and hasn't had any. I would however recommend going for a new barrel. @ak2m4 have maple leaf barrels which should be the best possible fit for the rubber and he might have some more zci barrels soon which are cheaper and may have a tiny bit better performance than the ML ones. 

I've done a lot of testing with my m904 and finally have it to where I want it. Recently I found a bit of an air leak between my zci hopup and the casing which swapping back to the stock one eliminated and boosted my fps. 

 

[ak2m4]

The Guarder SP100 has sorted things nicely, and AK2M4 has said that he's noticed hardly any compression of the spring in his own testing (which I think has gone into the tens of thousands of shots).

Think you've got your springs mixed up buddy, never said that about the Guarder springs.  Gearparts springs is where I've done the 200,000 cycle test.   Guarder don't even bother to oil their springs from the factory the cheap-skates ?

 

[Rogerborg]

I've measured the thin section of barrel between the cutout and the end at 2mm

Hmm, that does seem pretty thicc.  Just grabbing what's nearest, I'm measuring a ZCI correction an AOLS 6.01mmx455mm at 1.3mm and (I think) a stock CYMA barrel at 1.5mm. I'm actually surprised that they're so different from each other, let alone from yours, I'd never thought to measure them before.

Both of them take a Maple Leaf Macaron without issues, and I can see why you'd be having a problem with a 2mm thick bridge.

 

[Gonz.]

@Gonz. I run an ML Macaron 60 degree and Omega nub in the stock hop unit, and agree that the ML bucking is tight, you do have to use some force and possibly a little silicon oil to get it to sit well on the barrel and have the "patch" properly in the barrel's hole (the lip has been fine for me).

I'll be honest in that I know the bucking is not sitting 100% perfectly, however it hops perfectly and grouping is spot on.

That's great info, thanks.

Just had a look and it does seem like it has the same issue as you have mentioned. 

Fatboy40 says it shouldn't cause any issues and hasn't had any. I would however recommend going for a new barrel. @ak2m4 have maple leaf barrels which should be the best possible fit for the rubber and he might have some more zci barrels soon which are cheaper and may have a tiny bit better performance than the ML ones. 

I've done a lot of testing with my m904 and finally have it to where I want it. Recently I found a bit of an air leak between my zci hopup and the casing which swapping back to the stock one eliminated and boosted my fps. 

Thanks for confirming your experience is the same. I'm glad it's not just me.

So I guess I could go with it as is or maybe enlarge the cutout in the stock barrel. I'm also open to swapping out the barrel and if ak2m4 is due some more stock of ZCI barrels, that might be my preferred option. I have been contemplating getting a 247mm ZCI barrel as it's in stock and the flash hider has enough space to hide the extra length.

Otherwise, the gun seems to shoot well. Mine is just curving BB's to the left a bit, which is why I ordered the rubbers. FPS on 0.20's is right around 346 fps average and 7.4v lipo is plenty. 

Hmm, that does seem pretty thicc.  Just grabbing what's nearest, I'm measuring a ZCI at 1.3mm and (I think) a stock CYMA barrel at 1.5mm. I'm actually surprised that they're so different from each other, let alone from yours, I'd never thought to measure them before.

Both of them take a Maple Leaf Macaron without issues, and I can see why you'd be having a problem with a 2mm thick bridge.

Ah, perfect info thanks. I will measure the bridge on the Nuprol tonight. 

 

[Rogerborg]

I have been contemplating getting a 247mm ZCI barrel

What is it you need? 229mm?  There's an AOLS in stock in that length, and I'm happy enough with the AOLS 455mm in my DMR, paired with a Maple Leaf Macaron.  The bridge at the end is 1.3mm wide.

 

[ak2m4]

I'm hoping ZCI deliver 1st week in November, just waiting to hear back from them.  What size is the inner barrel you're after?

 

[Fatboy40]

I have been contemplating getting a 247mm ZCI barrel as it's in stock and the flash hider has enough space to hide the extra length....

... FPS on 0.20's is right around 346 fps average... 

@Gonz. Be aware that the inner barrel you mention should take you over the typical UK 350 FPS AEG limit if you already get 346 FPS, and I've a feeling that it will probably be to the point where you'll chrono noticeably hot if a site is playing fair (the stock inner barrel is 215 mm with a 6.05 diameter).

 

[Gonz.]

@RogerborgThanks for the recommendation. If ak2m4 has some ZCI barrels coming in, I may just wait for one of those. 

@ak2m4 Thanks for the heads up. I'm after a 229mm barrel.

@Fatboy40 I didn't think such a small increase in barrel length would make a noticeable difference, so I appreciate the warning. I can wait a month for more stock to arrive, but it's useful information to have on the forum. Makes me wonder what fps I'll get if I stick the 363mm barrel from the Nuprol in it ?

 

[Rogerborg]

Mmm, I only went for the AOLS because the ZCIs were out of stock, but I can't fault it.  They do indeed come well oiled inside, is the only thing I'd note. 

 

[ak2m4]

Mmm, I only went for the AOLS because the ZCIs were out of stock, but I can't fault it.  They do indeed come well oiled inside, is the only thing I'd note. 

Definitely the best priced / performance inner barrel out there.  Super dirty inside though

 

[Fatboy40]

Definitely the best priced / performance inner barrel out there.  Super dirty inside though

@ak2m4 This is a partial thread hijack, however over Xmas I'd like to build a DMR based on a Double Eagle platform, and I note your liking for the AOLS inner barrel.

I see that they're all a 6.01mm diameter, very tight, so do you have any recommendations for maintaining them / preventing potential BB jams? (I've also read, and this is not a hard and fast fact I'm presenting, that for a DMR perfect hopping is king more than the tightness of a bore, and a tight bore can be detrimental as there's no "air gap" for cushioning the BB / it could clip a foreign object more easily in the tighter bore?)

 

[ak2m4]

@ak2m4 This is a partial thread hijack, however over Xmas I'd like to build a DMR based on a Double Eagle platform, and I note your liking for the AOLS inner barrel.

I see that they're all a 6.01mm diameter, very tight, so do you have any recommendations for maintaining them / preventing potential BB jams? (I've also read, and this is not a hard and fast fact I'm presenting, that for a DMR perfect hopping is king more than the tightness of a bore, and a tight bore can be detrimental as there's no "air gap" for cushioning the BB / it could clip a foreign object more easily in the tighter bore?)

From my own personal experience I don't get too hung up on bore sizing, especially with lower price cheaper barrels.  If you took a bore measuring tool you'd probably find it was nowhere near the specified size lol.... As for maintenance I'd take out and clean after every game (that's just me though).

 

[Rogerborg]

I'm perfectly happy with a 455mm x "6.01mm" AOLS in a DMR.  In conjunction with a full cylinder, it also lets me get >1.8J out of a slightly cut down M130 spring rather than anything more gearbox-stressing.