DMR Discussion

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AshOnSnow

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The subject of DMRs seem to come in waves on this forums, and be the topic of hot debate. I had a few questions to put into the mix and discuss, along with some opinions of my own on the matter, so I thought I’d take a little fork in the road off the other thread that’s running and post this.

  • M4, SR25, AK, G36, SCAR, M14... - Is there any particular base type that you think is better suited over another?
  • FPS - there’s a lot of variation between different site limits from 350 up to 500, and different internal specifications to meet higher velocities. All the sites I play class DMR the same as sniper, allow 500fps, but I've also heard that many sites limit to 400fps. At what point would you say does a DMR become unviable?
  • Optics - Some may argue that a DMR should be fitted with a magnified scope, others may argue that in the short distances of airsoft engagements, the peripheral vision trade off isn’t worth the extra magnification. Would you run magnified optics on a DMR, or stay with red dot or iron sights?
  • Cost - DMRs, regardless of the base gun behind them, usually sit as the most expensive airsoft guns to buy and/or build up properly. Where does the point of best value lie for you, and why?
  • Effectiveness - largely linked with the FPS and the game site, what instances would you say a DMR is best or least suited to?
 
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For me a DMR is an SR-25 or M14 base with either a short dot or 3-9x scope firing at 400fps. For the sites I play at anything beyond 4x magnification is rather useless. I think the role doesn't play a huge part in Airsoft and is more of a personal preference than anything. 

 
I'll start by saying that FPS don't really matter..

Take a look at TM guns, they come at sub 300 fps yet they have more range and accuracy than other, more powerful guns..

With that said.

The platform doesn't really matter as long as the cylinder air volume matches the barrel air volume or exceeds it by a tiny bit.

Guns like the SR25 and M14 work better because they have longer cylinders than let's say an AK or a M4.. This of course is irrelevant when you have a GBB or a HPA gun..

Scopes: I'm a fan of short dots, you don't need anything bigger than that in airsoft.. It's too much a matter of personal preference, some like big ass scopes, others prefer dots or irons..

Cost: if you have some knowledge on teching and how stuff works you can theoretically upgrade almost everything for free.. Spend money on what makes the gun consistent, not on a m190 spring cuz hurr durr fps.. 500+ fps with a crap air seal, a crap hop unit and a crap barrel won't turn your gun into a DMR..

Effectiveness: do you really need those 5/10 metres of range? If the answer is yes, then it's effective..

My ideal DMR would be a M4 base, a HPA engine inside a one piece Retro Arms cnc shell with integrated hop unit, a flat prommy purple or a maple leaf bucking and a 360mm wide bore. Using .30s

As far as sights just a short dot with some good quality back up irons..

 
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Personally it all depends on the game / site rules and DMR power source...

If electrically powered DMR then;

If AEG limit is 328, then 400 is ok.

If AEG limit is 350, then 400 is meh.

If DMR limit is 450 now we are talking.

If gas / HPA powered DMR then 400 is good whatever because of the lovely joule creep.

Skara summed it up, that or a GBBR

A high mag scope is handy for spotting, 4x most used for single shot placement and follow up / conformation I think

Cost wise I don't see it any dearer to build than a decent full auto capable gun or sniper rifle.

If its usefull all depends on your site geography and how it games are normally played out, I think they are useful as long as you can get much improved accuracy over an auto gun at 50M and above.

When monies allow I'm going to building a new toy for sure as my secondary now that I've got my MP7 primary hah!

 
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As far as AEG’s go, the m14 has been universally accepted as one of the best. That’s down to the number one most important part of any airsoft gun, but especially a DMR.. the hop up. While they all essentially do the same thing, the tolerances of the chamber and the way it pushes down onto the nub make a world of difference. Far more so than barrel length. For example: a Tm mk23 socom with a 150mm barrel, maple leaf rubber and hadron designs TDC mod will throw a .43 for 60+m at 350fps. 

My own personal preference for a DMR is (and I probably sound like a broken record by now) a TM MWS GBBR. The hop up is out of this world good, it’s got great consistency, and being gas it pushes heavy weight BB’s efficiently. At 400fps I’ve hit people first time at 70m+

i have a vision king short dot which I’d say is perfect for the role. It will function as a red dot at X1 magnification and goes to 5 or 6. Obviously isn’t not as quick as a normal dot sight, but we have a MED anyway so it’s not required to be. Something like a 3-9x40 is also a good option. While not as usable as a short dot, it has the advantage of a larger, brighter image because of the larger lense.

Price wise id say is similar to any high end build. Perhaps a few years ago it was more expensive because people took the route of fancy mosfets to restrict to semi, but now everyone wants a mosfet and a fancy barrel, so cost is the same but the approach is different. 

It is very site dependant for obvious reasons. At a place like Anzio it’s idea. It’s very easy to always be 60ft away from the enemy in such a large site. The large, 2 story buildings make great ‘snipers nests’ which can (with a couple of people) be held and defended for a long time. My fondest airsoft memory is being in the Bar at Anzio suppressing an advancing force. A guy on our team had a mancraft VSR and was trying to hit an enemy sniper who was just through the trees on the far carpark (must have been 70m). I got him first shot between the trees.  

 
Wo1f said:
My own personal preference for a DMR is (and I probably sound like a broken record by now) a TM MWS GBBR. The hop up is out of this world good, it’s got great consistency, and being gas it pushes heavy weight BB’s efficiently. At 400fps I’ve hit people first time at 70m+
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How have you got it up to 400?

 
410mm barrel and an NPAS on propane. I can max it out at 430ish I believe 

 
See, I’d think that it would be easier to fit a small pin that prevents the fire selector from turning past semi. 

 
Plus you can always buy or make a new selector instead of forging a new receiver :P

 
I put an Angry gun power up suppressor on my Vector, it jumped from 340fps to 430 lol

 
Skara said:
I'll start by saying that FPS don't really matter..

Take a look at TM guns, they come at sub 300 fps yet they have more range and accuracy than other, more powerful guns..
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I've heard that a lot.  Is there anywhere I could see the evidence for a like-for-like comparison using BBs from the same bottle?

 
The evidence is surely justified in Skara's statement alone, TMs have always shot extremely well despite whatever FPS purely because of good hop systems applied to pretty much every TM RIF.

Not suprising seeing as they invented the AEG.

Its been said a million times before and I'm sure it'll be said a million times over... it's all about hop.

Hop unit design

Hop unit lever tolerance

Hop bucking to nozzle seal

Hop bucking to barrel seal

Hop adjustment range

Fineness of hop adjustment

it goes on and on, like the BB :D

 
I stumbled across this study a few weeks ago and it is proving to be a very good read (if your geeky like me...) 

http://mackila.com/airsoft/atp/index.htm

I've not read it all yet, but the closing remarks include interested studies of BB weight and FPS on distance . 

 
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That's beyond geek, good work, I hope he actually got out to play!

I think the cross wind stuff was good.

 
Arwen said:
I stumbled across this study a few weeks ago and it is proving to be a very good read (if your geeky like me...) 

http://mackila.com/airsoft/atp/index.htm

I've not read it all yet, but the closing remarks include interested studies of BB weight and FPS on distance . 
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That’s very interesting. Just skimmed through it and while I knew a lot, it answered something I’ve always had an idea about but never got a definitive answer to. How temperature affects range in terms of air density. 

 
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