Curiosity

[-Marksman]

Why are these guns so expensive?

http://www.zerooneairsoft.com/index.php?cPath=268_318_398

 

[TPI]

Because their imitating the real thing better than actual standard AEG's..

 

[CES_williamson]

becuase they are " professional training weapons" which basically means they are ment to simulate the real thing and they are ment to be really good(range ) the ROF is insane but the range can be outranged by a tm gun as my friend has done so many times! honestly i think they are over priced but i guess the prestige of saying having a ptw aswell !

 

[M_P]

As said they're meant to simulate the real thing better than usual aegs, they're the same weight and all that anal stuff.

I dont really see the benefits over training using a GBBR or a TM recoil for example etc but hey. The name is more of a marketing tool than anything I think.

The trigger response is excellent, range is excellent, accuracy is excellent, as is the build quality. They really are good, very good.

The stuff they can do is capable of being achieved by other guns, through upgrading etc. but it will take a lot of work, and still wont be quite as smooth.

You'd be better off having a go with one if you get the chance, then you can see what the money is spent on, easier than being told (if you know what i mean?)

Worth the £1700+ for a decent set up? Not in my opinion no, but that's down to the individual.

Would I buy one if I had a huge pile of cash lying around? Possibly, but I'd sooner go for other stuff.

Probably sounds like I'm putting a bit of a downer on them. Don't get me wrong, they really are very good, I just don't think the price it justified by how good they are. But try and get a go with one, it will make you smile (that said the mp5's price may just be low enough to be alright).

 

[Sam_G]

Marcus my mate is bringing his Systema on the 6th if you fancy a go.

I would have 2 TM recoils over 1 systema,

 

[M_P]

Marcus my mate is bringing his Systema on the 6th if you fancy a go.

I would have 2 TM recoils over 1 systema,

IVe played a few games with them before Seen enough to be honest.

They just lack the fun factor over say, my scar in my opinion.

 

[joshcowin]

becuase they are " professional training weapons" which basically means they are ment to simulate the real thing and they are ment to be really good(range ) the ROF is insane but the range can be outranged by a tm gun as my friend has done so many times! honestly i think they are over priced but i guess the prestige of saying having a ptw aswell !

how can you say that 1.the rof is insane,it really isnt that special 2.a systema that has been sorted will out range nearly everything on the field and be accurate,ive seen a systema put out the same range as a fully upgraded vsr,still doesnt justify £1600 though

 

[M_P]

A later tm can probably beat an un-tacked/modded ptw.

A very well upgraded aeg will be able to beat a modded one, but it won't be easy

A fully upgraded vsr could be beaten by one if not set up well, however a well sorted one will definitely be ahead.

A systema is though an easy and quicker way to get great performance.

 

[CES_williamson]

how can you say that 1.the rof is insane,it really isnt that special 2.a systema that has been sorted will out range nearly everything on the field and be accurate,ive seen a systema put out the same range as a fully upgraded vsr,still doesnt justify £1600 though

i am sure you have very good reasons for saying this but at my site some one bought a systema m4 along and my friends un-modified tm mp5 out ranged it, dont forget the magic that is the tm hop up unit.

the systema's gear box is designed well, it has a good ROF and yes i think it is because compared to most aeg's that have a average 800 bb's per minute the systeam'a is much above that

 

[M_P]

There is no magic in a tm hop unit, they're just generally very good.

I'd suggest it was an un-modded ptw, not worn in and probably not very well set up. To be beaten by a sub 295fps gun it'd have to be pretty tragic.

 

[CES_williamson]

There is no magic in a tm hop unit, they're just generally very good.

I'd suggest it was an un-modded ptw, not worn in and probably not very well set up. To be beaten by a sub 295fps gun it'd have to be pretty tragic.

i have no idea of the condition of the systeama inside the gun but yeah it was beaten and yeah i said magic as a joke? they are known for having good hop-up units?

 

[AK47frizzle]

Worth the £1700+ for a decent set up? Not in my opinion no, but that's down to the individual.

Would I buy one if I had a huge pile of cash lying around? Possibly, but I'd sooner go for other stuff.

I always thought that that kind of money is better off buying a Socom Gear M82A1 as it's very close to the real thing in terms of detail.

I personally don't think a £1200 M4 is worth the money but a £1200 Barret is a different story.

 

[M_P]

I always thought that that kind of money is better off buying a Socom Gear M82A1 as it's very close to the real thing in terms of detail.

I personally don't think a £1200 M4 is worth the money but a £1200 Barret is a different story.

IF you bought a so com gear m82 you would end up with what is essentially a very big heavy and impractical m4 using the internals from (I think) older g&g guns. If you want a very realistic gun, a gbbr is the way to go.

 

[TacMaster]

The reason PTWs are so expensive is nothing to do with performance, it's the fact that the electronics in the weapons simulate the actual jamming that the real steel versions experience and they also clear the same. The materials used in the weapons themselves are near the exact same as the real versions with the same balance, weight and complete 1:1 sizing. I suppose that's worth the £1000 price tag as they offer a platform as realistic, if not moreso than a GBB. They can also be chucked about like the real thing and survive pretty well (apparently, but if I spent £1,200 on an AEG I would not mistreat it )

This thread's title made me quite...curious

 

[two_zero]

As said they're meant to simulate the real thing better than usual aegs, they're the same weight and all that anal stuff.

I dont really see the benefits over training using a GBBR or a TM recoil for example etc but hey. The name is more of a marketing tool than anything I think.

The trigger response is excellent, range is excellent, accuracy is excellent, as is the build quality. They really are good, very good.

The stuff they can do is capable of being achieved by other guns, through upgrading etc. but it will take a lot of work, and still wont be quite as smooth.

You'd be better off having a go with one if you get the chance, then you can see what the money is spent on, easier than being told (if you know what i mean?)

Worth the £1700+ for a decent set up? Not in my opinion no, but that's down to the individual.

Would I buy one if I had a huge pile of cash lying around? Possibly, but I'd sooner go for other stuff.

Probably sounds like I'm putting a bit of a downer on them. Don't get me wrong, they really are very good, I just don't think the price it justified by how good they are. But try and get a go with one, it will make you smile (that said the mp5's price may just be low enough to be alright).

excellent post. want to ad something thou.....

BRAND!!

Price is also extra high to keep their brand image. Also they know they can overcharge because certain military uses them for training. Look at say Surefire compared to their (excellent) competition.

edit, apparently I didn't read your 3rd sentence. anyways.

 

[TacMaster]

Ah, but surefire is like the Leatherman of the torch world. There are certain cheaper brands which do the job well, but they don't have the same image of trust and reliability! (and of course a crappy £5 multitool can't be passed down father-son unlike a leatherman)

 

[scorpia4]

This thread's title made me quite curious... Bi-curious

AAAAAHAHAHAHA ;-)

 

[Ian_Gere]

^^Good lard! I wouldn't want any of my dad's tools, except maybe the head from a yonks old engineer's hammer he had (the handle was bolloxed already last time I saw it, maybe 25yrs ago), oh and the ammo crate he kept them in. He was too tight fisted to buy anything expensive and too lazy to find good stuff at bargain prices.

That's really what this discussion comes down to, eh? If you have the money to burn, a Systema will be good. Will it be twice as good as a gun 1/2 the price? Probably not. Will it be 120% better than an upgraded gun which cost 80% as much? I doubt it, but maybe. If you haven't got the money to pay what is probably over the odds but will nevertheless be guaranteed good, you must either resign yourself to not having that rarefied upper 5-10% of performance, or find good parts cheaply and build your own.

Personally I find the latter more interesting. Then again, these days that is my only choice if I want to own a great gun, so perhaps I'm just trying to make a virtue out of necessity. Having said that, am I the only one who thinks that people who indulge in conspicuous consumption not only look but are foolish? About 20-ish years ago an acquaintance of mine bought a silver Porche 911 Turbo. Seeing him in it for the 1st time, one of my mates said, "Who tied Marius in that car?" Then there's Gordon Ramsay in his Bently Continental: difficult to imagine but I think he does just look more of a cock than Peter Stringfellow...

Edit to add: at the time i was driving a white Astra GTE, with a computer controlled NOX kit, extended wheelbase and custom body parts to keep the wider profile aerodynamic... and red faux suede interior lol!

 

[M_P]

The reason PTWs are so expensive is nothing to do with performance, it's the fact that the electronics in the weapons simulate the actual jamming that the real steel versions experience and they also clear the same. The materials used in the weapons themselves are near the exact same as the real versions with the same balance, weight and complete 1:1 sizing. I suppose that's worth the £1000 price tag as they offer a platform as realistic, if not moreso than a GBB. They can also be chucked about like the real thing and survive pretty well (apparently, but if I spent £1,200 on an AEG I would not mistreat it )

This thread's title made me quite...curious

They don't simulate jamming. They can't be cleared (if they could electronically jam) in the same way as a real.one anyway as the charging handle can't be pulled back and the cylinder won't go into the buffer tube.The materials aren't nearly the same as a real AR either, the stock bodies are known to break below the buffer tube if given a good knock. You're even meant to open the receivers in a specific way in order to avoid breaking them. A real ones materials would be much tougher.

As for being 'as realistic if not more so than a gbbr', I take it you've not actually had a look at either? The dimensions and weight are realistic, and it has a functional bolt stop, but that's it. There is no way in hell that they're as realistic as a gbbr.

 

[two_zero]

Ah, but surefire is like the Leatherman of the torch world. There are certain cheaper brands which do the job well, but they don't have the same image of trust and reliability! (and of course a crappy £5 multitool can't be passed down father-son unlike a leatherman)

Nope, surefire most certainly isn't the leatherman of torches. I dont know anyone that can compete with leatherman, plenty of good tactical torches out there.

Just like beretta then, plenty of better m9 style pistols that are going for a lot less... no wait. for start that doesnt make sense because a src isnt better than a systema and darn this is getting off topic.

POINT IS, you're also paying for the 'logo' when you buy a systema

^^