Border Force Seizure

[Cromulon1994]

Reminds me of Quantum Leap, wonder if Al would be able to offer any words of wisdom? ?

Bet on Iceland to beat england in the euros

Invest said money into pfizer.

 

[garett27]

Just received a letter from BF stating that they've seized a RIF (GBB Pistol) I purchased from Hong Kong retailer. I did specifically instruct the retailer to show my UKARA number on the outside of the package. Whether or not they've done this, I don't know. However I should imagine they've also declared it as "toy parts" or something like they usually do.

I paid via Paypal, so do I have a case for claiming the full-amount back?

Also has this happened to anyone else and they've successfully fought it? Doesn't really seem worth it for £150 (especially if I can get a refund).

I guess you paid as goods and services so you can just get your funds back.

 

[Rogerborg]

I guess you paid as goods and services so you can just get your funds back.

We hope so, although someone just turned up a rather alarming T&C where PayPal say that they might reject a claim if the seller provided proof of delivery or proof of posting.

It seems that Border Farce are picking up on mis-labelled packages now, as that's an easy "win" for them.

 

[Tommikka]

I guess you paid as goods and services so you can just get your funds back.

We hope so, although someone just turned up a rather alarming T&C where PayPal say that they might reject a claim if the seller provided proof of delivery or proof of posting.

It seems that Border Farce are picking up on mis-labelled packages now, as that's an easy "win" for them.

Just received a letter from BF stating that they've seized a RIF (GBB Pistol) I purchased from Hong Kong retailer. I did specifically instruct the retailer to show my UKARA number on the outside of the package. Whether or not they've done this, I don't know. However I should imagine they've also declared it as "toy parts" or something like they usually do.

I paid via Paypal, so do I have a case for claiming the full-amount back?

Also has this happened to anyone else and they've successfully fought it? Doesn't really seem worth it for £150 (especially if I can get a refund).

On the basis that the original post was considering just the easy option of claiming a PayPal refund rather than respond to the seizure then I would opt in the retailers favour - its an import, for which the importer (buyer) is responsible for the border.

It could be simply resolved by responding that it’s an airsoft RIF, with a legitimate VCRA defence, the UKARA details should be marked on the packaging and if not then here they are.

It may be an actual seizure or not (depending on the wording, and temporary or not)

The retailer has correctly managed to get a package to the UK, complete with contact details for the importer

PayPals default option is to side with buyers, but it does side with sellers as well - or even does no fault compensation leaving neither buyer or seller out of pocket

There is of course also the insurance that comes with the postage depending on what options the retailer has and what option the buyer took

 

[Rogerborg]

its an import, for which the importer (buyer) is responsible for the border.

For proving a defence (which isn't the same as being licensed).

However, we're not responsible for the labelling, and I'd seen all sorts of "best sport toy electronic gift" style jibba-jabba and random declared value on packaging - which is one reason that I've never risked importing a RIF from Chinaland.

As per OP's original threat-o-gram, that's a separate legal problem to whether the item is prohibited. It seems unfair to punish recipients for something outwith our control, but if you don't like it, create your own national scale institutionalised protection racket, I guess.

Typically, they don't say which of the three possible reasons is behind the seizure, just "See you in court if you want it, good luck guessing which it is."

 

[Cr0-Magnon]

Whose responsibility is it to declare the contents of the package ?

 

[Tommikka]

Whose responsibility is it to declare the contents of the package ?

The sender is supposed to correctly declare, but the importing recipient gets held liable for what’s found 

 

[Cr0-Magnon]

The sender is supposed to correctly declare, but the importing recipient gets held liable for what’s found 

"Supposed to" means what in this equation. Had it been stopped because I didn't have a valid defence, I wouldn't have made a peep.

Anyway, lesson learned.

 

[EDcase]

For possible future purchases from afar, put your UKARA number in the address field.  That way its definitely going to be on there.

 

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

For possible future purchases from afar, put your UKARA number in the address field.  That way its definitely going to be on there.

Some shitty little weasel from UPS rang me once, and asked what UKARA meant in my address.  He explained, as though conversing with a re-tread, that their driver had become confused by the 'UKARA bit of the address.'   If my parcel did not arrive, 'it was down to incorrect addressing.'  

I enquired why UPS seemed to have a monopoly on UKARA imports if the monkeys in the office were unaware what the UKARA number signified.  

A few minutes of back and forth ego fuelled bullshit ensued from said over empowered millennial followed by a declaration that the UKARA number was superfluous, 'and should be ignored and henceforth never added to an address ever again, 'if I expected the parcel to be delivered.' '  

UPS then, having the address info as requested, delivered the parcel a few doors down.  

Since the parcel was being delivered to my work address, and I was exporting gear to oil drilling exploration sites in the middle of nowhere in North Africa, I was unimpressed.   Pre-2012 Libyan customs made the UK look Neanderthal...

I don't think it's got much better TBH.   

 

[Tommikka]

"Supposed to" means what in this equation. Had it been stopped because I didn't have a valid defence, I wouldn't have made a peep.

Anyway, lesson learned.

The sender is supposed to on the basis that they are doing the labeling, and are the one making a contract with the carrier so are required to declare by the carrier.  In this case the carrier is more concerned about whether or not the package complies with their terms and conditions such as restricted and prohibited goods.  A package crossing international boundaries will be required to have a customs declaration. 
 

As far as customs are concerned the importer is responsible for the content of the declaration. It is you as the in country buyer / importer that they deal with.  This is the current line of responsibility affecting you

If you can establish for certain that the sender did not declare or made false declarations then that supports your claim to charge back

If you are just assuming that then unless customs provide you with the full details then the package may have been fully declared and showing your UKARA reference all as instructed to the sender but customs have chosen to seize. In such case the sender bears no responsibility and has successfully performed their side of the bargain of delivering to this country, and your claim would be a challenge to customs 

 

[Cr0-Magnon]

I reported it as a misdeclaration issue as that seems most likely. If the retailer wanted to dispute that, then they should have responded to my e-mails and/or the PayPal case.

As an importer/buyer/consignee it's my responsibility to ensure I am entitled to import the goods - I am.

The exporter/seller/consignor contracted their carrier to deliver the goods to my door, essentially under Incoterms 2020 DAP. Therefore their responsibility for the goods ends when I take delivery of them at that point.

 

[colinjallen]

For possible future purchases from afar, put your UKARA number in the address field.  That way its definitely going to be on there.

This.

 

[Cr0-Magnon]

This.

You can cover it in UKARA wrapping paper, it doesn't make a difference if the seller is declaring it as toy parts rather than a RIF.

 

[EvilMonkee]

For possible future purchases from afar, put your UKARA number in the address field.  That way its definitely going to be on there.

Thats what I do, unfortunately it Taiwangun and Gunfire both ignored it.

 

[Rogerborg]

Thats what I do, unfortunately it Taiwangun and Gunfire both ignored it.

Indeed, I tried putting it in my TaiwanGun address, and the weird way that Eurostanis interpret addresses completely messed it up and did indeed make the address essentially indecipherable.  I'd almost sympathise with UPS had they tried to deliver it