HELP! HPA or AEG!?

[Krisz]

Whatever you read about HPA on the internet I'd say take it with a pinch of salt. Lots of people never tried it in real life but they're very opinionated or clearly biased againt it for whatever reason or being on the receing end once and since then it lives in their head rent free. Needless to say It's very easy to abuse it and the cunt speedsofter stereotype isn't made up they do exist. HPA has a very bad reputation on the internet because of a few bellends/bad actors.

HPA has it's place mainly as DMR/sniper (outdoor) because it can be made extremely quiet. The line will snag into everything so that would be a huge concern for me but as you said Wrath X and other options do exist.

I think HPA's main selling point is the extreme consistency and it's easy to tune. But this could be said about an good AEG or a purpose built DMR, too.

I do run my pistols on hpa if I can't use gas and I do run my hpa engined rattler as a back up in winter time but I only play indoor so it's very different dynamics from a forest/trenches etc. Plus one of my mate comes with me quite regularly so he can use it while I run gas/electric so it gives me more options to gear up two people at the same time. For me it's been always a good investment but you have to try it yourself because it's silly money to get into it from zero.

 

[Reidfc]

it’s only ever been used by team minions that were told to pump so I only have personal experience of pumping as a little top up

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Hahahah. This made me chuckle, but also really good to know the 13ci can be used if maintained without any faff of being checked! Thank you!!!

 

[Reidfc]

Th

To state the obvious, if you can, try before you buy.

I've had a go on a couple (including @Impulse 's DMR that he was kind enough to let me run for half a day) and though I love the idea of the silence I just find the experience of shooting it a bit meh. c02 bulbs are passable for a DMR, but constant changing on an AEG might be a pain and the line/tank may or may not be an issue depending on the sort of environment you need to crawl through (is it going to get hung up all the time, etc).
The 13ci stocks seem like a plan, but trying one in the shop I just found it bulky and awkward.

I've also had a Mancraft VSR, a polarstar F2, Wolverine SMP and currently have a Mancraft SRS. Both worked fine, although you still have the line issue to deal with. I only went for the HPA on the SRS as my elbow was wrecked.

Would still consider HPA for bolt guns, specific silent build or possible vehicle mounted MG where you can run dive cylinders, but other than that I'd probably stick with an AEG/recoil.

Can't answer the compressor question. But would consider a dive cylinder that you can get topped up (depending what you have available to you in the area).

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To be honest I think you’re right. If one came up for sale locally or if I ever saw the wraith X, it would be sensible to feel how it sits on the shoulder and cheek. Might end up hating it, good advice thank you!

 

[Reidfc]

Personally, given average uk site limits etc, id stick with AEGs all day long.
BUT
I'll start by saying no offence is intended, the info you supplied earlier indicates that you are someone, & you're not alone in it, that is always pursuing the limits on your kit, whether its fps, trigger response, or noise (or lack of it).
But IRL guns aren't quiet, even the suppressed ones have clunky metal moving parts (with just a couple of exceptions ?), triggers are only as quick as the person pulling it, & real world physics limit what's achievable with a bb while staying within the rules .
With all that in mind, & as by your own admission that you're not a sniper, surely your well set up aegs are going to be much less hassle, & expense, than bottles/lines/refills etc.
But that's just my opinion, id rather just get out there, plug & play, so to speak.

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I think you are right, I’m always trying to squeeze perfection out of my aeg’s as I work on them for fun. I actually enjoy it!

That being said, I’m no expert it can take a lot of time to get there and the maintenance is a pain. I guess you’ve made me question if I have a “the grass is greener” mentality when in reality it’s airsoft, it’s a plastic BB that can be affected by shape, wind ect ect.

Thank you!

 

[Reidfc]

Whatever you read about HPA on the internet I'd say take it with a pinch of salt. Lots of people never tried it in real life but they're very opinionated or clearly biased againt it for whatever reason or being on the receing end once and since then it lives in their head rent free. Needless to say It's very easy to abuse it and the cunt speedsofter stereotype isn't made up they do exist. HPA has a very bad reputation on the internet because of a few bellends/bad actors.

HPA has it's place mainly as DMR/sniper (outdoor) because it can be made extremely quiet. The line will snag into everything so that would be a huge concern for me but as you said Wrath X and other options do exist.

I think HPA's main selling point is the extreme consistency and it's easy to tune. But this could be said about an good AEG or a purpose built DMR, too.

I do run my pistols on hpa if I can't use gas and I do run my hpa engined rattler as a back up in winter time but I only play indoor so it's very different dynamics from a forest/trenches etc. Plus one of my mate comes with me quite regularly so he can use it while I run gas/electric so it gives me more options to gear up two people at the same time. For me it's been always a good investment but you have to try it yourself because it's silly money to get into it from zero.

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Yeah from your comment and the others it’s making me think. I really do need to have a full game day with the line and tank ect. Then maybe try a Wraith X if I get a chance.

My only worry is I’m trigger happy but the consistency you get with HPA makes me think I’ll maybe have to flick my finger less to get the BB where I want it.

Thanks for your reply, very good insight.

 

[Impulse]

Yeah, I mainly use GBBRs now and two of my gas sniper rifles don't use suppressors because I've come to realise that that level of silence is just... not really needed. And good players will still hear you unless you're shooting at distance, at which point they may not hear you anyway. Plus, as @Tackle said, real firearms aren't quiet. Even wet shots with suppressed subsonics and locked slides are pretty audible, so to me it's just immersion breaking to have airsoft guns that make no noise.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

I think you are right, I’m always trying to squeeze perfection out of my aeg’s as I work on them for fun. I actually enjoy it!

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If you're into trying to squeeze every drop you can then maybe it's worth it for you.

The thing i'd advise is if you're the type to tinker and tune then you might want to think about the dual solenoid engines. They give you much more control over the process and let you really dial in to what passes in airsoft for perfection.

Personally i'd suggest the polarstar f2 as a solid choice, once dialled in properly it's capable of top tier accuracy if the supporting hardware (barrel, hop etc) allows and unlike the fusion it's easily transferred to a different gun should the mood take you that way.

I wont comment on the other brands of single solenoid engines as i've not dissected them but avoid polarstars versions (the jack and f1 specifically), they're fundamentally limited in the performance you can get and only really good for the "haha hpa go brrrt" crowd, but if you go down that path you'll very quickly be hated for it.

Personally i never found line snagging to be that big a deal, it's no worse than having a sling, pistol lanyard or the many and varied ways your load carrying kit can catch on everything.

 

[snuff]

I moved from AEG to HPA and TBH I doubt I'd go back (although I'm out of the scene atm).
Our group using HPA has totaly different views of it.I like the ease of an OOTB MTW never fails and lets you know when it needs a new rubber.
Another friend (MTW owner) has bought an AEG AK as he says HPA (MTW) make the game too easy and he was getting frustrated with the game play.
We have a knowledgeable player who likes to convert his own weapons to HPA,unfortunately he spends too much time "fettling" them and not enough time playing.He doesn't like the trigger pull of MTW's ,it is very light more of a switch than a trigger,whilst his are always proper mechanical pulls.
The issue with HPA is if you buy a "built" model you must be sure that it has been modified so that you can replace parts if and when required,I've seen a lot of stories where people make them work in the end by dremeling cases to align nozzles,etc.
When I return depending on my mobility I may go for a HPA boltie and snipe if I'm unable to run about and use an Unleashed MTW.

 

[Reidfc]

If you're into trying to squeeze every drop you can then maybe it's worth it for you.

The thing i'd advise is if you're the type to tinker and tune then you might want to think about the dual solenoid engines. They give you much more control over the process and let you really dial in to what passes in airsoft for perfection.

Personally i'd suggest the polarstar f2 as a solid choice, once dialled in properly it's capable of top tier accuracy if the supporting hardware (barrel, hop etc) allows and unlike the fusion it's easily transferred to a different gun should the mood take you that way.

I wont comment on the other brands of single solenoid engines as i've not dissected them but avoid polarstars versions (the jack and f1 specifically), they're fundamentally limited in the performance you can get and only really good for the "haha hpa go brrrt" crowd, but if you go down that path you'll very quickly be hated for it.

Personally i never found line snagging to be that big a deal, it's no worse than having a sling, pistol lanyard or the many and varied ways your load carrying kit can catch on everything.

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What are some modifications you can do?

I really do like sitting in my room and shimming, cleaning, greasing, trying different orings and nozzles ect as it’s relaxing and fun as well as the fact the rifs I’ve built have been so fun to use.

I’ve had a few times where I’ve been lying on the ground and crawling I just fear that’s really difficult and would mean I need the wraith X. What do you think?

 

[Reidfc]

I moved from AEG to HPA and TBH I doubt I'd go back (although I'm out of the scene atm).
Our group using HPA has totaly different views of it.I like the ease of an OOTB MTW never fails and lets you know when it needs a new rubber.
Another friend (MTW owner) has bought an AEG AK as he says HPA (MTW) make the game too easy and he was getting frustrated with the game play.
We have a knowledgeable player who likes to convert his own weapons to HPA,unfortunately he spends too much time "fettling" them and not enough time playing.He doesn't like the trigger pull of MTW's ,it is very light more of a switch than a trigger,whilst his are always proper mechanical pulls.
The issue with HPA is if you buy a "built" model you must be sure that it has been modified so that you can replace parts if and when required,I've seen a lot of stories where people make them work in the end by dremeling cases to align nozzles,etc.
When I return depending on my mobility I may go for a HPA boltie and snipe if I'm unable to run about and use an Unleashed MTW.

Click to shrink...

Thanks for the reply!

If you’re ever looking to sell up let me know as I like to buy from people who know their kit and don’t wreck it like you mentioned.

I like less of a mechanical feel, more hair like for sure.

What is the different between MTW and dropping a polar star F2 into my current rif if you wouldn’t mind explaining?

Thanks so much for your time replying it’s so helpful.

 

[Reidfc]

I moved from AEG to HPA and TBH I doubt I'd go back (although I'm out of the scene atm).
Our group using HPA has totaly different views of it.I like the ease of an OOTB MTW never fails and lets you know when it needs a new rubber.
Another friend (MTW owner) has bought an AEG AK as he says HPA (MTW) make the game too easy and he was getting frustrated with the game play.
We have a knowledgeable player who likes to convert his own weapons to HPA,unfortunately he spends too much time "fettling" them and not enough time playing.He doesn't like the trigger pull of MTW's ,it is very light more of a switch than a trigger,whilst his are always proper mechanical pulls.
The issue with HPA is if you buy a "built" model you must be sure that it has been modified so that you can replace parts if and when required,I've seen a lot of stories where people make them work in the end by dremeling cases to align nozzles,etc.
When I return depending on my mobility I may go for a HPA boltie and snipe if I'm unable to run about and use an Unleashed MTW.

Click to shrink...

Also, why wouldn’t you go back to aeg if you don’t mind explaining?

 

[Adolf Hamster]

What are some modifications you can do?

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In terms of tinkering with the engine, there's swapping out to a low flow poppet (applicable for running lower energy limits), not difficult it's a 2 minute tool-less job on the f2.

Then there's the fitting of the triggerboard can sometimes require creativitiy, there are "drop in" boards for standard gearboxes but sometimes a given box might need some love with a dremel to fit. For non-standard boxes there's shenanigans with fitting a plugboard to use the original contacts so you'll be breaking out the soldering iron.

Gearbox alignment is often cited as an issue but imo the engines that drop into existing gearboxes usually sidestep this pretty well as you're using a gearbox replacement that should already fit the gun. It is a much bigger issue on the full replacements aka the fusion same as swapping a whole gearbox into a new aeg can have.

Otherwise in terms of the gun itself, it's the hop/bucking/barrel and the external factors (eg reciever wobble etc) will all be exactly like you'd deal with without hpa.

For a dual solenoid engine the lions share is going to be dialling in settings, both pressure and fcu settings. The polarstar manual does a pretty fantastic job of explaining exactly how the settings work and how you should go about dialling them in. On the fusion engine the dwell setting is more of a fine tune with shims needed for bigger adjustments but the f2 you can pretty much do everything from the fcu.

I’ve had a few times where I’ve been lying on the ground and crawling I just fear that’s really difficult and would mean I need the wraith X. What do you think?

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Lying down isnt much of an issue, but crawling i can see getting fun. I never did it much as my gamestyle was centered around making a gun that could shoot just a bit further than the other guy then standing at the point where i could hit him and he couldnt return. Eliminated the need for me to crawl around.

Going to a stock on gun setup will mean less rounds before you're out of gas, so factor that in to see if your play style can accomodate that.

 

[mightyjebus]

for what it's worth I tried HPA after seeing quite a few decent quiet HPA builds getting used. I didn't go crazy and spend a ton of money on the rifle itself but there are quite a few extra costs to consider and long term faff to contend with.

I bought the Ares drop in engine and stuck it in a Ares AEG. performance was decent and pretty quiet. running around a CQB site with another 120 people means that quiet doesn't really matter too much. I can see the appeal if I was being sneaky at a woodland site.

It's quite expensive to get up and running as you will need an engine, some sort of doner AEG (unless you buy one already built), a air line, a regulator, a tank (possibly 2 or more depending on how trigger happy you are and some sort of backpack to carry the tank around in (unless you go for a very small tank that fits in a pouch but again see the point about being trigger happy).

The biggest thing I found was air. I live in Wiltshire so dive shops to get a refill don't exist and the site I usually go to doesn't offer HPA refills. This meant that I had to buy a compressor (you need to be careful using one of these - read the safety blurb).

Is it worth it? That's up to you but for me it's a no simply because of the extra faff. I can set up a decent AEG for the same money and only need to worry about my battery being charged before a game.

 

[Reidfc]

In terms of tinkering with the engine, there's swapping out to a low flow poppet (applicable for running lower energy limits), not difficult it's a 2 minute tool-less job on the f2.

Then there's the fitting of the triggerboard can sometimes require creativitiy, there are "drop in" boards for standard gearboxes but sometimes a given box might need some love with a dremel to fit. For non-standard boxes there's shenanigans with fitting a plugboard to use the original contacts so you'll be breaking out the soldering iron.

Gearbox alignment is often cited as an issue but imo the engines that drop into existing gearboxes usually sidestep this pretty well as you're using a gearbox replacement that should already fit the gun. It is a much bigger issue on the full replacements aka the fusion same as swapping a whole gearbox into a new aeg can have.

Otherwise in terms of the gun itself, it's the hop/bucking/barrel and the external factors (eg reciever wobble etc) will all be exactly like you'd deal with without hpa.

For a dual solenoid engine the lions share is going to be dialling in settings, both pressure and fcu settings. The polarstar manual does a pretty fantastic job of explaining exactly how the settings work and how you should go about dialling them in. On the fusion engine the dwell setting is more of a fine tune with shims needed for bigger adjustments but the f2 you can pretty much do everything from the fcu.



Lying down isnt much of an issue, but crawling i can see getting fun. I never did it much as my gamestyle was centered around making a gun that could shoot just a bit further than the other guy then standing at the point where i could hit him and he couldnt return. Eliminated the need for me to crawl around.

Going to a stock on gun setup will mean less rounds before you're out of gas, so factor that in to see if your play style can accomodate that.

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Yeah I’ve seen so many people talking about all the different things you need to worry about when dropping in an engine.

Coming from AEG which I’m assuming has more snags and moving parts, just when you think you’ve got your head round everything you realise there’s another thing to consider.

However, learning to work on HPA guns and using a new platform would be fun.

Yeah I think I would have to invest in quite a few bottles for the stock, so would need to go alluminium as the steel seems quite expensive although they do have a higher capacity.

Maybe a drop in engine first would be better as cheaper and the line doesn’t sound the end of the world…

 

[snuff]

Thanks for the reply!

If you’re ever looking to sell up let me know as I like to buy from people who know their kit and don’t wreck it like you mentioned.

I like less of a mechanical feel, more hair like for sure.

What is the different between MTW and dropping a polar star F2 into my current rif if you wouldn’t mind explaining?

Thanks so much for your time replying it’s so helpful.

Click to shrink...

All my kit has gone,I'm waiting for a medical procedure atm hence the pause.
I can't help with the drop in engine as it never interested me but many have done it and it would be a question better raised in the HPA section,I have seen my mates struggle to achieve the results they wanted but they were pretty new to the whole thing.When I go to a field I want to play not mess about with my kit and the MTW allows that,it had never let me down,minor mods but OOTB superb.

Also, why wouldn’t you go back to aeg if you don’t mind explaining?

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It just seems like natural progression for me,I've been playing for many years and have tried many AEG's and many have been great.My last AEG was a Krytac and it was only 3 months old when I tried an MTW.Sold the Krytac to my nephew and bought the MTW.I didn't have a plethora of weapons as I like to use what I had.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Yeah I’ve seen so many people talking about all the different things you need to worry about when dropping in an engine.

Coming from AEG which I’m assuming has more snags and moving parts, just when you think you’ve got your head round everything you realise there’s another thing to consider.

However, learning to work on HPA guns and using a new platform would be fun.

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in a way it's nicer on hpa but there's not too many things you can do which will break parts or permanently fuck up the gun.

the worst you'll have to deal with is something like a bad nozzle jam where you know it can be fixed on a bench (or at least tested before game day), otherwise it'll shoot it just might shoot like ass.

it also reduces the mechanical things you need to worry about, chasing down a leak can be a fun escapade but tbh a brand new engine shouldn't be leaking for thousands of rounds. the only issue i had with that was the low flow poppet in a fusion engine the o ring didn't seal too well, stealing the o ring from the original cured that right up.

Yeah I think I would have to invest in quite a few bottles for the stock, so would need to go alluminium as the steel seems quite expensive although they do have a higher capacity.

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not just the bottles, but filling them, and trying to do gun surgery to change bottles mid-game is sub optimal.

Maybe a drop in engine first would be better as cheaper and the line doesn’t sound the end of the world…

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i think it really boils down to play style, i basically never found line snagging to be an issue, but then i'm not the sort to try and crawl around under bracken. then try to shoot left handed. so as with many things in airsoft your milage may vary.

 

[snuff]

OP next time you're out playing speak to HPA owners and ask the same question,"Why?". Most airsofters will be happy to chat and they might even let you have a shot or 2 with their guns.As you can see from the replies there are 2 HPA routes build or buy,good luck.

 

[Ajax]

You’ll be shredded by the time you think about getting a compressor so will only take you 5 minutes haha!

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Believe me I need this exercise