First Gun Conundrum

[Sitting Duck]

OP says he mainly plays woodland with a little bit of cqb

reckon instead of L85 get say AK or M4

and then if he wants get a G36c JG or Cyma type for cqb if main gun is too big

That way for around same price as L85-ish he has 2 guns for 2 play styles

which in any case is a spare should main gun go pear shape on him

if OP has been playing - what guns has he got used to ???

L85 could have advantage for range but AK would also over G36c or M4

I know peeps have gone cqb with L85 but think I'd prefer something else

End of the day it is up to OP but going on what they said I think I would:

M4 or AK for woods

G36c for cqb if ya main gun is a little long for tight turns etc....

(or cqb stubby M4 or going with Ian's dark side option....

could get AK 028u or similar and have possible one that does both sites

but that means you have no spare/backup gun if it plays up

quite likely at some point - pistol is an option but not in main gun fight

 

[PT247]

It does if it is gas blowback one, unless you fancy getting your earlobe ripped off

Aye for sure, lol. Not sure many folk go for a GBBR for their first gun tho! ;-)

 

[TheFull9]

Have to say... if your ear ever got in the way of the reciprocating cocking handle, I could only presume you sights were mounted on the side of the gun and your cheek weld was somewhere on the magazine. :wacko: :lol:

Despite what some internet commandos out there tend say, you can shoot the real thing left handed without losing teeth. Just only in a very specific, awkward stance and you'd not hit much past 15m I don't think, not without a lot of practice. But anyway, OP, long as it's from a reputable, trusted retailer and brand you cannot go too far wrong; if possible just go in to a shop and get hands on with whatever you can and you'll very quickly figure out what you really like. Half the time these threads end up being more for the old-salts than the new players anyway and it ends up going a bit too in depth, but ergonomics are an entirely individual thing that can't be experienced though the internet. For example, I was always certain that I'd really love the handling characteristics of the P90... handled a real one a couple of weeks back... not a fan it turned out, so you never do know.

 

[Chock]

Oh I'm not saying you cannot use an L85 left handed, just that it's not ideal for it, particularly considering that it was supposed to be a modern, more progressively-designed weapon which was supposedly taking haptics and ergonomics into account, but ended up having to be remanufactured by H&K and even then got rejected by numerous forces who evaluated it. That said, it's certainly not alone in not being ideal for lefties, but it is a lot poorer in that regard in comparison to many of its direct contemporaries, particularly bullpups when it comes to things such as the position of the ejection port and the charging handle.

Having fired the real L85, the SA80, as well as its its smaller chambered version for cadets - one of the advantages of having a friend who was an armourer for the SAS - I'm just of the opinion that I would not like having that charging handle and ejection port clattering away that close to my face if I was a lefty (not to mention it being a crapload louder). Although to be fair, there are certainly a lot of other weapons out there which are equally open to criticism for their various design features; even the M4, which i was advocating on this thread, has many points which one could be critical of.

Of course many of these issues are a moot point with airsoft versions, but it does at least make for an interesting discussion.

 

[Sitting Duck]

is why I said what gun has OP been using or used to

said it was OP's choice but merely pointed out a few considerations that was all

(first gun, ease of parts, general use or ergonomics all day peek left etc....)

Not saying you can't peek left with L85 but I think OP is not ultra experienced btw

would think f*ck this for a game of soldiers trying to peek left on a cqb site etc...

If there was one gun for all but alas there is not

even if there was peeps would still want something different to not follow heard

Suffice to say many - myself included use the "common" guns

yup got L85 - 2 in fact (just cheap Army Armament R85's btw not G&G or ICS)

but prefer the "everybody has one" M4 myself - but like I said to each their own

Yes if at all possible pop into shop and try to hold a weapon to get feel of it

Heck what do ya think dead zone or half time is for - chat & try another player's gun

All are good ways to really see if you really can "get on" with it

If you can't hold one and try it out then you are kind of guessing what you might be ok with

Hence I only offered my findings and suggestions - they are just my personal suggestions

they are not gonna be everybody's cuppa tea but in "general" think most will be ok for 1st gun

 

[Chock]

That's very true about holding stuff to see if you like it. I can remember the first time I held an Armalite, it was an AR-15 with the full stock, and I thought it was horrible the way the buttplate was so high up on the thing, since I was used to rifles where the stock is not inline with the receiver, as it is on Armalites, then of course you realise that it was designed like that because the carry handle places the rear pipper up high, so the whole main body of the gun has to sit a bit lower than is the case with a more conventional stock, so it does then place the buttplate in the right spot when you get used to holding it the correct way, but it was weird the first time I held one and wasn't used to the receiver being that low down. Nowadays I don't even think about that though; so you do get used to guns when you are familiar with them, which means it's probably not a great idea to dismiss any gun just off having held it for a few seconds.

 

[Ian_Gere]

I find the fire selector of AR-15 variants difficult to operate fully. My hands are quite large but my fingers are disproportionately longer, so when it comes to moving it back, where on a G36 i would use my index finger knuckle on the opposite side of the receiver, I have to move my whole hand partly off the pistol grip. But where people often complain about the ergonomics of AK's, I can operate the controls with my trigger finger without shifting my grip much at all.

It would have been a right ballache if i'd fancied an M4 and bought one before ever holding one.

 

[Chock]

Yup, I'd agree with you on that one, loads of people say the AK fire selector is poor, but I think it's good; I can easily operate it with my trigger finger, which to me seems like an intelligent and natural association in terms of haptics. Vastly better than the M16's fire selector, which to me seems to be tailor-made for accidentally getting knocked onto full auto or safe when it rubs against your webbing. I've lost count of the times in the past that my M4 has let rip on full auto at sites where they only allow semi, and I've had to quickly pop it back to semi, never had that happen with any AK.

In fairness, the M4's fire selector has now disciplined me to check the fire selector when an engagement is imminent, since I rarely use full auto anyway, but even so, I'd prefer to have something that stays where I'm fairly sure I left it in the first place!

That said, the M4's charging handle is better than that of the AK, in being completely ambidextrous, so there are indeed some aspects of the AK which could certainly be better than they are, and which the M4 does well, though I'll admit the AK is probably my favourite assault rifle, even with its faults.

 

[Lozart]

I find the fire selector of AR-15 variants difficult to operate fully. My hands are quite large but my fingers are disproportionately longer, so when it comes to moving it back, where on a G36 i would use my index finger knuckle on the opposite side of the receiver, I have to move my whole hand partly off the pistol grip. But where people often complain about the ergonomics of AK's, I can operate the controls with my trigger finger without shifting my grip much at all.

It would have been a right ballache if i'd fancied an M4 and bought one before ever holding one.

See - I have the opposite problem; my fingers are relatively short for the size of my hands. I have no problem operating my M4 fire selector with my thumb but I can't reach the little tab on my AK selector without taking my hand off the grip (which is why I have a tactical selector en route from Bunny Workshop). Now, granted I did have an issue with the base of my thumb knocking the M4 selector very slightly in use which would usually knock it just far enough to engage auto but that seems to have gone now since changing to a Magpul grip which by design positions my hand slightly further back. The fire selector can also be stiffened up by tightening the screw inside the receiver that holds it on.

Of all of the assault rifles I have the SCAR is by far the most easily useable fire selector. Instead of being a 9/12/3 o'clock position it's more of a 7/9/11 o'clock position and is ambidextrous. I tend to go up from safe to semi to auto using my thumb then back down again with my index finger first or second knuckle.

 

[Ian_Gere]

My fav so far is my L1A1 SLR - perfect position and size to be operated by my thumb without changing my grip at all, but my Ares L1A1 is such a pig that I haven't skirmished it enough to know if it is prone to being knocked rubbing against my gear. I suspect it may be, because it does have a proper press pad for your thumb. I'm very tempted by the JG SA58 which has a similar selector without the big press pad... but then again, it's on a long list of guns i want so i don't anticipate getting one any time soon :lol:

 

[Chock]

but then again, it's on a long list of guns i want so i don't anticipate getting one any time soon :lol:

Yup, the moment you think your collection of shiny toys is nearing being complete, something else comes along; that's probably why my house looks like some kind of survivalist nutter's wet dream

 

[Lozart]

Yup, the moment you think your collection of shiny toys is nearing being complete, something else comes along; that's probably why my house looks like some kind of survivalist nutter's wet dream

Ideal number of guns = x+1 where x = current number of guns.

 

[PT247]

works the same for motorbikes!

 

[grandwitch]

Hello,

Just thought I would feedback what I actually bought. I ended up buying a BO Combat LT595 CQB (M4) as after trying it decide I liked they way it felt and that it accepted all accessories and is easily upgraded. I also on whim bought a KJWORKS KP01-E2 (P226) as I liked the way it felt. A friend of mine gave me his old Osprey MK4 vest so I am going to have to buy a L85 in the future.

Thanks for your advice.

Daniel

 

[Lozart]

Hello,

Just thought I would feedback what I actually bought. I ended up buying a

BO Combat LT595 CQB (M4) as after trying it decide I liked they way it felt and that it accepted all accessories and is easily upgraded. I also on whim bought a KJWORKS KP01-E2 (P226) as I liked the way it felt. A friend of mine gave me his old Osprey MK4 vest so I am going to have to buy a L85 in the future.



Thanks for your advice.

Daniel

So you weren't kidding when you said money wasn't an issue then! Nice choice.

 

[jcheeseright]

So you weren't kidding when you said money wasn't an issue then! Nice choice.

£220? he's hardly remortgaged his house!

 

[Lozart]

£220? he's hardly remortgaged his house!

Must be thinking of a different gun then, all the BO stuff I've seen was more in the £700 range...

Just checked, I've only seen the BO Dynamics Proline stuff up until now. Didn't realise they did cheaper ones! My bad.