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Boy killed for brandishing a pistol

It might get to the point where you need to pass a gun-safety test before you can buy an RIF (or even an IF), some way to make sure that the only people who get shot for waving a toy gun around are the pricks who deserve it, rather than the kids that dont know better.

Call it the common-sense test

 
Oh right, and who's going to administer this common sense test? The ministry of fuck-all-else-to-do?

Nothing will change, this whole thing while unfortunate could only have been prevented by the kid not being a retard.

As for 'shoot to wound'... no such thing, if you fire a gun at someone you do it with the intention of killing them, someone can die MUCH faster from a hit to the upper thigh than one to the chest.

 
Rule of Darwin unfortunately applies, if you are not fit enough to know that brandishing a pistol at the police will get you killed well then you wont survive to adulthood and have children. That kid did a really stupid thing, removing the orange tip to make it look real, then pointing it at a load of people in the park, then pulling out when police turn up I mean seriously what do people expect to happen here exactly? Its horrific that a kid died with an airsoft gun in his hand, but its the reality that we don't know who the good guys and the bad guys are, the police can only see the actions that occur in front of them. I feel for the police officers who had to fire their guns in self defence that day against someone who appeared to be trying to hurt them. I also feel for the kids family who lost a son/brother/sister after their kid was playing a stupid prank in the park. The police given the situation in the USA likely did the right thing.

 
No sympathy as the orange tip was missing, he ignored the cops 2 warnings..... How on earth would something like UkARA help?

It's like a kid taking a 2 tone and spraying it black and waving it around in a bank!!!

 
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Nothing about our legal system stops this from occuring in the UK. Indeed it wasn't more than a few months ago when a kid was seen on the high street with an airsoft pistol and was stopped by armed officers at gun point. That time they didn't shoot because he wasn't stupid enough to aim it at them but it could have gone the other way just as easily. Two toning doesn't really change the situation and choice for the police. If it did then the bad guys would all be spray painting their guns orange.

But these situations do reenforce for me personally the desire to stop IFs and RIFs getting into the hands of minors, There is definitely an age at which someone understands the implications of carrying something that looks very much like a real gun, and 12 is too young. 18 might arguably be too old in a lot of cases but its definitely a cause for concern that age and understanding is a factor.

But as a kid I used to happily play Cowboys and Indians and war games with plastic copy cat guns in the streets and my neighbours would smile and wave and say good morning. Nowadays I fear if my nephew did the same someone would call the armed police. Something in our society went wrong as well when the assumption is a 12 year old with something that looks real is actually real.

Edit - So I am conflicted on the whole issue. The current reality doesn't match how I wish the world was and I don't see why its not like that anymore other than irrational fear. I shot air rifles, pistols, .22's and shotguns as a teenager and yet nowadays these are hobbies restricted to specialist gun clubs, and I just don't see how any of that helps.

 
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jcheeseright said:
As for 'shoot to wound'... no such thing, if you fire a gun at someone you do it with the intention of killing them, someone can die MUCH faster from a hit to the upper thigh than one to the chest.
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I was just saying the cops could of considered other options but he made the best decision he thought at the time

with limited info - the possible fake gun wasn't relayed to officers so he took it as real

So if they fired as kid reached into his waistband of jeans then they wouldn't have seen an orange tip if still fitted

They were not told it could be a possible fake gun but the dumb ass kid was pointing at people

uhmm soz that is just asking for it

but wait a sec - who never took out an old cowboy gun/water pistol that looked a little bit realistic

and waved it in the air - alas the world has changed a bit and gun crime is common reality now

Now at the risk of kicking over a massive hornets nest on top....

Daily Mail jumps on this as airsoft sport of terrorists/criminals

Daily Mirror asks the question would police open fired if was a white 12yr old instead a black kid ???

WHOOOAAAAA - soz but I'm sure many lefty's may wonder that plus US are waiting to find out

about a white cop shooting dead a black guy - and family telling all to stay calm & don't riot

Soz but this is dumb tragic thing to happen and not the first time it has happened

and won't be the last either

Bad crap all round which ever way you look at it and all that

EDIT just put the question to a black guy and without question said the would of shot if it was a white 12yr old. Them cops don't take no $hit or chances be said.

It was an interesting discussion, yup kid f**ked up at least 3 times, taking gun out, waving it and not complying with armed officer

The officer probably went home to his own 12yr old son and though it is unfair to judge rights/wrongs of parents teaching kids

they can't watch them 101% of time and until my own kids grow up and see how they turn out - only then could I perhaps comment

how other parents bring their kids up

the officer's son or anyone of our kids or members on here could be in a similar situation

Before anybody says no-way - did you not do really slightly dumb a$$ stuff when you was young ??

admit I doubt if I was gonna be that dumb to ignore armed police

officer could of tazered the kid but a firearm info was given rather than possible fake firearm

So due to possible risk to officer and public the possible fake info was not relayed - and rightly so

Alas police arrive and they have video footage of kid reaching for a gun so officer fires - end of story

officer did not sign up for this situation of killing a kid - he has to live with this and even though he acted

on his best instinct it is nothing to be proud of on his record

Kid's mum is gonna have a nice Thanks Giving as well - the whole thing is f**king tragic mess

Plus as the guy at work was saying they in US have had kids of all backgrounds go on recent shooting spree

in schools so he is quite sure the cop would of done the same on a middle class white kid

And as the night continued we saw the developments over in Ferguson - which is another black vs cop

more crap

And lets not forget how the riots a while back started over here in UK too

Basically - don't F**ck with guns real RIF or 2-tone anywhere outside or you may not live to regret

yes I know Ferguson guy was unarmed before anybody starts to correct me but all kind of connected

in a way being shot by armed police

A terrible tragic shame and waste like I said - kid is to blame for his dumb a$$ mistakes

but though a 12yr old knows right from wrong they may not fully understand his actions

probably why criminal records are separate for kids/teenagers and adults etc....

but lets not forget that "could" of happened closer to home or even somebody we knew/loved

trying to put a slight humour spin on this

perhaps should of bought this 5-tone gun

http://www.evike.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=22&products_id=42979

a nerf gun looks more lethal and this gundam would of perhaps been safer

plus being SRC it would of been shagged after 3 or 4 skirmishes

(sure it don't stand for Star Rainbow Co but $hitty Rifle Crap)

 
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I'm afraid that this country has already absorbed so much US culture that if I were to attempt to discuss why this kind of thing is now increasingly more likely to happen in the UK also, few people reading it would even understand what I'm talking about. But ask yourself this, when did it become the norm for British people to think in terms of "the bad guy"? And while you're at it, consider this: if someone shoots the bad guy, what are they? If, for even a millisecond, you thought "the good guy", then there you have it: dualism.

If everything we experience leads to a mindset which first always seeks to understand anything in terms of 2 polar opposites, then it will become so fundamental that it will seem to be instinctive, and indeed, since our bodies are symmetrical, to a degree it may well be. However, just as we go through phases of thinking as children, where for example we learn that holding onto things and screaming 'mine' at the top of our lungs does not confer ownership of an object, the process of growing up ought to equip us with at least another pole, that of "the things which i do not know", which is quite a profound realisation, one which ought to be quite mind expanding if considered more than cursorily. By the time we reach teenage then we also ought to understand that, apart from the stuff which we simply do not know about a situation, there are the things which we do not understand, and the things about which, although we understand them, we cannot really form a definite opinion, many of which may be the subject of age old debate, but perhaps more importantly there are also the things concerning which it would be "an ill wind which blew nobody any good"...

This is actively demonised in the US as "moral relativism" where the President can actually say, "You're either with us or agin us," and not be laughed out of office for attempting to run foreign policy as if it were in a playground. Personally I find it no surprise that the likes of Henry Ford gave large amounts of money to fund Christian higher education, promoting values which we in the UK would consider fundamentalist - after all, a workforce with a simplistic mindset are much easier to control. All you have to do is successfully create a terrible "bad guy" and then anyone who is against them, no matter how 'bad', has to be "the good guy", because there is no other thing they can be...

In this case the cops show up to an incident involving a gun in a playground. The gun should not be in the playground. The person with the gun is therefore the bad guy... The bad guy does not immediately comply with instructions: shoot the bad guy. It's all simple and reasonable, isn't it? Simple. Reasonable. Isn't it?

 
Ian_Gere said:
In this case the cops show up to an incident involving a gun in a playground. The gun should not be in the playground. The person with the gun is therefore the bad guy... The bad guy does not immediately comply with instructions: shoot the bad guy. It's all simple and reasonable, isn't it? Simple. Reasonable. Isn't it?
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Its neither simple nor reasonable nor proportionate or how any of us would want this sort of thing to happen at all. The officers involved were primed with the news that a kid with a gun was threatening people in the park, both by the caller and then by the absence of knowledge that there was reasonable suspicion the gun was fake. Those officers were lied to by omission and this could all be the fault of the caller who knew full well the kid was playing in the park, cooked the story due to their own irritation with it and boom we have a kid dead.

The kid caught on the UK streets was told to stick his hands in the air and the first thing he did was pick the gun out of his waistband and put it on the ground. He didn't comply with orders either, but our armed police didn't shoot. But there is a difference between reaching for the gun and starting to aim it at a police officer. We will never know at what moment those officers really chose to shoot or how it could have played out if they had all the information.

Not as serious but it reminds me of a crime I called 999 on a while back. I see a guy fighting to get away from 2 guys. Initially its a fight and then they have him by the arms, they slam him up against a wall and they are holding him there occasionally hitting him. I am on the 999 call and I can't explain what is going on at all. Then about 45 seconds later 4 guys turn up and surround him on the wall, one of them kicks him hard in the stomach and then they all drag him into a corner shop. What the hell just happened based on what I saw? Was a guy just brutally assaulted by a gang of 6 guys? Or were they something to do with the shop and giving a beat down on a thief? Was the kicking really necessary to apprehend the thief, sure didn't look like it. How you prime the police in your reporting of the facts as you see them and the facts you see can dramatically change the outcome. How the police perceive the information given to them, how the kid has been taught to regard guns, the police, other people, his own experience of the world and the people in it all come together in a few seconds and change lives forever.

Do I see a good and a bad guy, I just don't. I see a lot of lives broken on both sides and mistakes were made all around, The kid lost his life due to his mistakes, the question is whether the officers also end up in jail for murder/manslaughter as well. Will the people who fed the misinformation to the officers also be held accountable?

 
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Pretty pointless arguing about gun controls or governing bodies for RIFs as how they kid got it is a moot point.

He got it..

He used it badly and without care and paid the price.

There were clearly mistakes made by all, the police it seemed could have made a different call but the officer on the ground (despite possibly being trigger happy, having a bad day WHATEVER) took the call. He was presented with a kid in a park who had been purposely scaring people with a realistic looking weapon, who he thought was going to draw it. So he shot. Police cannot shoot to wound, a leg/arm shot may not stop someone from returning fire and can cause more harm than good. So he followed his training and killed the kid.

Its tragic.

But the fault lies with the kid. He should not have taken it outside, should not have scared people with it and SHOULD have followed the instructions from the cops to put his hands on head etc...

Such a shame and waste of life, I feel for his family and the cop who took the shot.

 
it would not matter a jot if the gun was brightly colored. people customize there guns all the time in the usa and plenty of women for example have barbie pink guns ect. the problems here are many a underage child is waving a gun in public then failed to follow police commands probably out of blind panic and being shouted at. if any of us was carrying a gun in Cleveland ohio and following procedure with it in a holster and not taking it out there would not be a problem.

 
They don't shoot the arms, which would've made him drop the gun IF it was a real one and they don't shoot the legs which the immense pain would've made him forget about the gun and care for his legs instead; They HAD to shoot the upper body because he is black. American twats.

 
AK47frizzle said:
They don't shoot the arms, which would've made him drop the gun IF it was a real one and they don't shoot the legs which the immense pain would've made him forget about the gun and care for his legs instead; They HAD to shoot the upper body because he is black. American twats.
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This contains so much stupid it should carry a health warning.

 
Lozart said:
This contains so much stupid it should carry a health warning.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

Do you know what is racist. White cop shoots black teenager.

That is racist. You never see the opposite when a police officer is killed or assulted.

 
Fact is, it's dumb to wave a gun around and public, whether it be real or a toy. At 12 years old, the kid might have been either too young, or simply too dumb to realise the consequences of doing so, and we will probably never know which was the case. So that leaves us with one conclusion really, and that is that if there is any question as to whether the kid was either too young or simply too stupid to know the risks, then there is no room for doubt if this sort of thing is to be prevented, and therefore the sale and possession of RIFs should have an age limit, in order to avoid the possibility that it might be a case of simply being too young to realise the consequences. If this was the way things were, then anyone old enough to wave something about like that, could quite justifiably be shot by the police, because they would have asked for it by being so stupid as to put themselves at risk, knowing that is what they are doing.

For all we know, the kid might have been a right little sh*t who richly deserved what he got, or a sweet young kid who was just too naive to know what a risk he was taking, and so it only makes sense to remove the possibility of either being the case, by removing the ability for young kids to legitimately have a RIF. Frankly, I don't blame the police for shooting him, what else were they supposed to do? Wait for him to drop a passer by with a couple of shots before acting? There was no easy choice for them, but it's certainly easy for people to be judgemental about their actions from the comfortable position of hindsight, especially when they aren't the ones called out to respond to a potentially lethal threat and protect the public from harm.

A case in point was this Sunday. It was 7am and I was carrying stuff out to my car to go airsofting, and that included my entirely realistic-looking Dragunov Sniper Rifle, and this whilst I was dressed in full USMC camouflage. Now at that time it was dark, so it was unlikely that anyone would see anything of this, but I still waited until there was nobody coming past my house either on foot or in a car before I carried the thing out to my car, because I know that anyone seeing someone dressed in camo gear, carrying a sniper rifle, is justifiably going to crap themselves and call an armed response unit in. And I wouldn't blame them if they did. Our hobby comes with the demand for a good deal of responsibility when we could easily scare the crap out of someone and provoke a tragic occurrence. That is what a RIF can do, and sadly, in this case, is exactly what it did do.

 
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b1n0gHo5t said:
No idea on the kid that was shot but then..another person has been shot recently causing rioting & looting he just happened to be black
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Yeah but the protests going on because of that were because he was unarmed and they shot him anyway, and now the officer who killed him is being let off.

So I think it's fair that people are kicking off about it. Looks very much like institutional racism, even if it isn't.

 
jeez - not trying to turn this into any race row or anything like that.....

I was just asking the black guy at work his take on this coz yes the 12 yr old was black

(dunno if cop was white - nor do I care)

and the way things get blown or taken out of context in media n others opinions etc....

no blame lies with really anybody else but the poor dumb a$$ kid

I admit I took my FireHawk & CO2 pistol into work to in effect "show off" to a few people

one has a firearms license and has brought in his hunting rifle in the past (also showing off)

I had both items in their boxes and in black bin bags in my car but wasn't being ultra stupid

with it - though we fired some shots inside a closed warehouse - but all same

Despite all this on here and all what is going on Stateside - none of it will bring the kid/guy back

But hopefully we will ALL learn from this - young or old and try be a little more responsible

 
The 12 year old that got shot in Cleveland was black, yes.

The situation in Ferguson is a more deeply rooted problem involving a community with a predominantly black poorer population and a predominantly white police force.

 
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