Umarex/VFC/Elite Force MP7 AEG - Any info?

[Wo1f]

The joule increase comes from being gas guns or in case of the SRS, a fooking huge cylinder and relatively small barrel. Both of which push and push until the BB has left the barrel, even if that BB is heavy and in the barrel longer. 

For most AEG’s with full cylinders, 455mm is the absolute max inner barrel you want. You can get away with longer with things like PSG-1’s and SR-25’s with longer cylinders. Another way of doing it is by getting a tightbore of the same length. My Realsword SVD is getting a 680mm 5.98mm barrel. The length is the same, but the reduced volume in the barrel is like having more volume in the cylinder. 

Ive no doubt it will perform respectably in CQB and be usable outdoors, but the nature of the gearbox (I assume at this point) limits the tuning capabilities from going from a good gun to an amazing one.

It’s all about what you want. Every one of my guns from a pistol to a sniper rifle is fiddled with to give me the best range possible because that’s my style of play. If you like getting in close and using volume of fire, there’s no need to open virtually any gearbox. 

 

[Rogerborg]

Thanks @Wo1f, that's fascinating stuff.  I get why gas guns joule creep upwards, but I did not expect a piston gun to lose energy with heavier BBs.  I'm still struggling to see why, unless its bleeding energy while inside the barrel, but I can't argue with the results.

 

[Musica]

Thanks @Wo1f, that's fascinating stuff.  I get why gas guns joule creep upwards, but I did not expect a piston gun to lose energy with heavier BBs.  I'm still struggling to see why, unless its bleeding energy while inside the barrel, but I can't argue with the results.

When the piston is pulled back /reset it has to suck air in and if the bb is still in the barrel because it's taking longer to exit because it's heavier then it starts sucking it back sapping some of the energy it just used to push it.  This all happens in fractions of seconds but if a heavier bb takes a few fractions longer to exit it's possible. 

TM did all the math for barrel length/piston volume to try to avoid this for their guns so techs and clones stick to their cylinders/ barrel lengths mostly. I suppose when they did the math it wasn't taking in to acount a bb with over double the weight of the standard either. 

 

[Wo1f]

Thanks @Wo1f, that's fascinating stuff.  I get why gas guns joule creep upwards, but I did not expect a piston gun to lose energy with heavier BBs.  I'm still struggling to see why, unless its bleeding energy while inside the barrel, but I can't argue with the results.

In its simplest terms, get a B.B. and a straw and blow. See how far the B.B. goes. Now take that same breath and same B.B. and do it with a drainpipe of the same length. You’d be lucky if it reached the end of the pipe. That’s a bad volume ratio. 

In terms of joule loss with heavier weight BBs.. put a .20 BB and a marble on a table (this simulates a tiny cylinder “lungs” and along, high volume barrel “open air”) with a single breath blow on them and see which one travels further (it will be the BB). Now pick them both up, go outside and throw them as far as you can. The marble will go many times the distance with the same force of throw. That’s because of how much energy you can actually transfer to the object. The more mass, the more potential energy it can contain. 

 

[EvilMonkee]

I heard $380 on one video on YT for it - so by the time that it gets here expect £450

 

[Rogerborg]

When the piston is pulled back /reset it has to suck air in

I assume those were semi auto chrono shots, so the piston wouldn't have been pulled back unless the gearbox was over-spinning.  Which it could have been.

 

[Musica]

I assume those were semi auto chrono shots, so the piston wouldn't have been pulled back unless the gearbox was over-spinning.  Which it could have been.

Your making too much sense. 

Really expected to get more info from shotshow but everyones video is the same shit. 

 

[Wo1f]

I assume those were semi auto chrono shots, so the piston wouldn't have been pulled back unless the gearbox was over-spinning.  Which it could have been.

That’s correct. Only an issue on full auto or if a gun has precocking. 

 

[Musica]

That’s correct. Only an issue on full auto or if a gun has precocking. 

So in your G36c's case your suggesting that the cylinder doesn't have enough volume to push the heavier bb down the length of barrel and after so far it's no longer getting pushed and it's sort of just bouncing around. 

 

[Wo1f]

So in your G36c's case your suggesting that the cylinder doesn't have enough volume to push the heavier bb down the length of barrel and after so far it's no longer getting pushed and it's sort of just bouncing around. 

Essentially yes. It’s imparted all of the air it had into the BB before it had left the barrel because of the ported cylinder.

the volume of a ported cylinder only starts where the end of the port hole is, reducing the power stroke. That’s why DSG builds usually need big springs to get even 300 FPS because the piston isn’t traveling to the rear and utilising all of the air the cylinder can potentially make. The advantage of a port is it allows the piston to accelerate quickly.

 

[Musica]

accelerating quickly is good because hits the bb faster improving responsiveness from trigger to target?

I can't see why people want 40ROF guns. 

 

[Wo1f]

accelerating quickly is good because hits the bb faster improving responsiveness from trigger to target?

I can't see why people want 40ROF guns. 

Helps trigger response a little, but it also hits FPS numbers easier. If I put a full cylinder in that g36c I’d probably loose FPS on a .20 but I’d gain joules with heavier ammo.

if I ever find enough disposable income to buy another ICS m4 I’ll do a forum or video series explaining everything properly.

 

[Musica]

quick change spring? 

 

[Musica]

You can order it now stock expected April 

http://www.landwarriorairsoft.com/airsoft-rifles-c38/electric-rifles-c45/umarex-mp7a1-aeg-p9666/s11746

Also FPS has been changed from 360 to 300 on their page on 0.20g bbs 

These will be manufactured by VFC, are expected to perform around 300FPS (with 0.20g bb's)

 

[GemsHD]

You can order it now stock expected April 

http://www.landwarriorairsoft.com/airsoft-rifles-c38/electric-rifles-c45/umarex-mp7a1-aeg-p9666/s11746

Also FPS has been changed from 360 to 300 on their page on 0.20g bbs 

£420... wow

 

[Wo1f]

Not a chance at that price.. for that I could buy a TM gbbr mp7 and some mags. Much better gun. 

 

[Musica]

I think saying something is better without having facts is a bit forward.  Plus aeg to gbb is like apples and oranges,

 

[Wo1f]

I think saying something is better without having facts is a bit forward.  Plus aeg to gbb is like apples and oranges,

But we know some facts. The cylinder isn’t very big, so it’s range/accuracy potential is limited. It’s still by far the best electric mp7, but you’re in TM recoil territory charging £400+ 

 

[Rogerborg]

Yeah, thanks but no thanks. I'll wait for a copy-gun.

 

[FreeFrag.UK]

Based off the information that's circulated so far it appears to have quite a significant number of proprietary parts, which is fairness was probably to be expected. The unfortunate reality is that this immediately effects your sales potential, at least to those more technically inclined or those who seek upgrades at some point.

Finally the price is a bit of a kick in the teeth. Admittedly it offers something which isn't currently available on the market, an actual 1:1 scale MP7 (allegedly) in AEG format but at that price you're placing yourself in a position where you have to offer something which the competition doesn't. For some the allure of the MP7 in AEG format will be enough but fo many they'll be looking at what's out there and this is where the MP7 starts to lose ground.

As @Rogerborg said, I'll wait for a knock off or alternatively look at something else on my wishlist once I'm ready.