best methods of AOE - Angle of Engagement

[alex90]

so going to be doing a few upgrades to a cm16 I got cheap for a little cqb gun

iv seen many ways of doing it but what are the best and simplest

space out the piston head and piston or sorbo pad ?

plus im going to be making the gun a loud as I can  

 

[Hangtight]

Shower hose rubber washers glued to the cylinder head are cheap and work. Two should do the job. This will move the rest position of the piston back by 4mm and should put the pickup tooth on the piston in just the right place. You'll then need to carefully remove the second tooth and probably trim the top of the third tooth so the sector gear doesn't catch it.

When you say you're making the gun as loud as you can, how are you attempting to achieve that?

 

[alex90]

full metal piston and g&g firehawk sound amp and really short barrel

and hose washer are simplest way then

 

[Sitting Duck]

If you got a std firehawk - change the gears perhaps

it may have a 8 tooth bevel which will take the gearing to about 22:1

probably stick to 16:1 with the blue G&G motor in there

Also at some point in future the bronze bushings if fitted are crap

12 months or so they should be replaced with 8mm steel bushings

(you might have 8mm bearings but nearly all G&G's have bronzey bushings)

As for loudness - can do that anyway with a normal M4 flash hider

carefully cover the outside of flashider with your hand & fire

(ensure fingers are out of way ffs)

much louder snap - wrap in black duct tape if you wish

or

fit a suppressor - one of the cheap types with ccw+cw

remove the opposite end, and spring foam etc... = LOUD AS F*CK !!!!

Don't blame me if you get a headache - either from the echo inside cqb

or from other players/team members getting pi$$ed with your gobby gun all day

Out is the woods you position imho will be quickly given away and the distinctive crack

will allow enemies to very quickly narrow down exactly where you may be in the bushes

even if they can't see you they will quickly narrow down to within say 6 inches or so where you are

fit a bearing spring guide to help compensate for slight fps loss due to AoE

Personally if you got a gun that works then leave it until it needs attention

Then go nutz - I wouldn't just do a AoE & new piston if I'm honest

I tend to gut the internals if I bother opening up a box but I'm an obsessed saddo

a good piston for G&G's without the rear inspection window is this:

http://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/pistons/shs-ra-145-tooth-piston-cnc-swiss-cheese

light as heck out of the box and you would struggle to get a metal rack piston much lighter

For boxes with windows I like to use pistons with more complete rails but that is my OCD

Just checked a lightened SHS in a std G&G box and no binding

But crap does vary and checking for piston binding is one of those things you learn

I'm holding it very tightly at the rear of box and the piston I have seems to move nicely

Some pistons can bind in some boxes but not in others etc.....

Soz another waffle post again

if you got a std firehawk consider gear change on 22:1 to say 16:1

normal CM16 you will have 18:1 or 18.65:1 so not so much a biggy

like many things - where do you start/stop etc...

(I'll stfu now)

 

[Hangtight]

If you're going with a really short barrel then don't forget to volume the cylinder to suit, otherwise you're going to give the gearbox shell a bit of a hammering.

 

[alex90]

im ditching the standard gearbox

building on from parts of a previous build that never got going

so specs should be

ultimate gearbox shell 8mm bearings

12.1 shs gear set

full metal piston

ETU trigger unit

barrel going to be about 5 inchs or so and the end look will be similar to a fire hawk  

and if you ever played at ucap bunker its a very loud game style there   

 

[Sitting Duck]

im ditching the standard gearbox

building on from parts of a previous build that never got going

so specs should be

ultimate gearbox shell 8mm bearings

12.1 shs gear set

full metal piston

ETU trigger unit

barrel going to be about 5 inchs or so and the end look will be similar to a fire hawk  

and if you ever played at ucap bunker its a very loud game style there   

If that is a G&G ETU trigger unit - DON'T BOTHER, it is $hit

it has too many reliability issues, the switch unit is rather weak, the mosfet is even weaker

It runs best on 11.1v or very good 9.6v/9.9v LiFe batteries - troublesome on 7.4v

The G&G ETU is a lemony innovation - great idea and does work

BUT it really has a big unreliability issue - so great they are bringing out a revised ETU2

(alas G&G mosfets have a history of issues - even just basic mosfets)

Your fps will drop on a shorter barrel so you need to use a m110-m115

possible m120 & Short stroke if needed if fps a touch too high

Gears - well 12:1 will need a decent motor & doubt if std grey 18k G&G motor will be up to it

The Blue G&G one is better or the Orange Ifrit motor if they are in there

pretty sure the Blue motor is in FireHawk & CM18's but Carbine/Raider's are deffo std 18k

The Blue isn't as good as a SHS HT but way better than 18k, worth using imho on a budget build

I got 20rps on a blue G&G motor with 13:1 300mm barrel SS setup on 7.4v Cyma M4

(going some with ultra thick wire mosfet etc - possible 24rps max if I used a SHS HT motor on 7.4v)

So the Blue motor is OK to use - way better than slow 18k motor

TBH - if you want something like a FireHawk then get one, run it on 11.1v for a bit of snap

Put a stubby fixed stock on there than pi$$ball about with buffer tube batteries

A year down the line do some tweaks & service as & when its needed

A Short Raider is a good CQB floater gun too

The CM18 is still one of my all round personal favourites but to each their own

(comes with mid cap instead of high cap)

But if you are looking for FireHawk type of gun - maybe just get one

(and some earplugs for you or your team)

Do not get the crappy HC05 DSG- it has no semi so almost certainly can't use for most CQB semi battles

(crap performance for a DSG anyway out of box)

Normally most of us aim for a nice snappy gun at around 20 to 25rps which is quite easy & do-able

going above this is a bit more work & most of the time not worth it in most cases

How you do it is up to you, up the juice a bit, better motor if 18k or rip it open to gut it

Keeping it mild-ish for a while upping the juice a bit or a SHS HT

(not High Speed & more juice as pistons strip when you take the pi$$ etc....)

If you get the gun at say 17rps then great - still an improvement

often it isn't the gun or its rps that wins the game but skillful player holding the damn thing

I suck so I do need all the help I can get but I still get owned no matter how quick my gun fires

All I know is that you can chuck a fortune into a toy gun, improve its fire rate and accuracy & still get owned

That 13 year old with a JBBG special still gets me most of the time as it is myself that needs lots of upgrades

another waffle - soz

 

[alex90]

when I first got I checked my high torque motor straight in and put deans on and was a massive improvement just doing that

and im just purely doing it for s'#ts and giggles really having a nice load raspy noise followed by a stream of green tracers just sounds like fun

I don't intend in the gun being anything special 

the ETU I had it running in my last gearbox before I swapped it and was running really nice was happy with the trigger pull and never had any issues so maybe just lucked out on that one and only issue was not happy on 7.4 lipo fired few shots then cut out

and this gearbox is going to be a learning curve for me anyway never built a gearbox like this

so just going to see what happens really    

 

[Hangtight]

Build with bushings rather than bearings. Bearings have a nasty habit of collapsing with slightly heavier springs. If you really must use bearings the the stock G&P 8mm ones seem to be more reliable than the expensive 'upgrade' versions. Bearings don't offer any real performance improvements anyway.

My CQB gun uses a 170mm barrel and requires a M110 spring to get 1J. That's got a nice 'crack' to it.

Your going to want the biggest high discharge brick lipo you can fit in a stumpy stock. Don't mess around with buffer tube batteries as they will be hard pressed to supply the start up current required if you're doing a lot of shooting in semi. An alternative is a ready mag system with a gutted mag to hold the battery.

That ones got a 2250mah 30/45C 11.1 lipo in it with enough space left over for the Mosfet.

 

[Sitting Duck]

The ETU is a very hit n miss bit of stuff - mostly miss imho

some people have more issues than others

a small amount have no issues what so ever or so far

but it isn't like fine that improves with age

imho - it will crap out, yes most stuff does but I've seen posts 6 months later crapping out

My FFR A2 crapped out when I changed the motor, blew fuse and just kept blowing

Hence I thought ffffffforget this and went back to old school trigger switch

All this stuff is a learning curve, just if you shove in 12:1 gears the load or amps will increase

The ETU is not the most robust unit in handling increased amps

So me personally I would cautious of increasing the load from higher speed gearing

plus if using 11.1v or higher juice due to picky ETU & on 12:1 with a half decent motor that is getting quick

IMHO 12:1 & 11.1v is getting a bit too quick unless you start doing more work unless you got a slow torquey motor

There is more one way to skin a cat as they say - but be cautious how far you go etc....

The ETU issue is well documented...



There are loads of reports/posts about it - it is a dairy lea mosfet imho

shame coz the guns are lovely looking, the ETU is a great idea and it does work

apart from the gimmick 3 round burst it eliminates the possible dead zone where Cut Off Lever is half raised

Yup it most certainly completes the cycle correctly so no more dead trigger

But it is some damn flimsy & picky when it works (for how long)

Great idea - badly built with not so reliable G&G electronics

The blue ETU2 is a smaller mosfet unit that hopefully will be better

(well can't be any worse than the original - unsure if it is fully ETU1 compatible though I gave up looking)

it is somewhere on G&G's facebook page but this is the newer switch:

Trigger switch is same but the extra bit on the blue is a mag detection thingy

and other sensors are if using G&G mid caps a mag follower detector to stop firing on empty

(ffs - it is a toy gun - just get the basic electrics to work properly than pi$$ about gimmicks)

the actual mosfet/burst module in also smaller (blue) with a 3 & 5 round burst

 

[alex90]

i was planning on using my 7.4 lipos as to keep it down a tad but like u said the ETU dosnt like anything less then 11.1

what trigger and mosfet combs are worth looking at its purely for that trigger pull as my other m4 has micro switch and going back to standard contacts would find it strange    

 

[Hangtight]

The only units I've used that don't utilise the original contacts and cutoff are the BTC Chimera, which has a trigger microswitch, and the Gate Titan which uses five optical sensors to monitor the trigger position. At the moment with the Gate I'm using an HPA Speed Trigger which has reach and endpoint adjustment screws, so I can get a ridiculously short trigger pull, but I'm considering trying to get a small tactile switch on there, not for the switching but just to give it a bit of 'feel'.

 

[Sitting Duck]

Good little mosfet is without doubt the firestorm

http://www.firestormsystems.com/shop/electronics/mosfet-switch.html

can be fitted inside a G&G box or one that isn't re-enforced at the back

been out of stock now for about a month

somebody should email them coz I think I wanna order a few next time they are in stock

Old school trigger is fine for nearly all builds

if you are really really sad you can mess around with trigger mod

it never is a true hairline trigger mod - more of a reduced trigger pull mod

it takes time to do and first attempt rarely goes to plan

cut glue metal of very hard plastic to take up the slack or play and lots of testing

It is mainly about getting the trigger sear to just about push the trolley without slipping off

just enough that it pops the trolley with a good new Cut Off Lever etc....

It is a ball ache to do if I'm 101% honest but if your sear/trolley is jumping off from wear

then WTF it is worth a shot if you can be bothered

Sometimes you use a new trigger or trolley and it jumps off

Sometimes the sear is too big and the trolley jumps off only when a worn COL is at max height

The idea shorten the trigger pull & pop the trolley asap testing for 101% functioning in both semi/auto

lots of guides and they vary a bit but that is the general idea of it all

If you got a G&G ETU box then live with it as is on say 11.1v is the easiest advice

If/When it goes tits up then look at messing about with it

Or build any half decent box as you see fit according to your skills, time & budget

It really is a case of where do you start/stop

If I was ripping a box to bits ten I'd most likely go 13:1 half decent motor or a SHS HT on 7.4v with a diy mosfet

get me into 20's maybe 23 rps perhaps if I take my time and should be snappy with little overspin if SS a m115 spring

BUT then you could get near that on 11.1v if you got the room on a stock ETU box

So it really is up to you how choose to add some more zest to your gun

Yes it should be more efficient if you ensure seals are better, AoE blah blah blah

but you can do this if/when the fps starts dropping to say sub 300 fps

Too many think they have to upgrade loads straight away

I have made many many abortions messing with stuff that don't need it

(or at least not just yet straight out of box)

I've broke plenty taking the pi$$, learnt the hard way, done stupid $hit with lipo's & fires

yeah Mrs Duck does not share my immature sense of fun especially the expense too

Have a think and consider how far you go and when you REALLY need to mess about with stuff

The ETU if it works ok on 11.1v is a good box, if it breaks then lose the ETU perhaps