Conversation overheard today at Holmbush Airsoft; Crawley

Chronoing with 0.20g BB's isn't going to solve the issue. We will still get joule creep out of HPA and GBBR guns and some AEGs.

The only real way is to test with the BBs that are actually going to be used and know their weight. Might be interesting to start using scales to confirm BB weight and the first time you do quite a few people are going to be getting kicked off site for lying.

 
BrightCandle said:
Chronoing with 0.20g BB's isn't going to solve the issue. We will still get joule creep out of HPA and GBBR guns and some AEGs.

The only real way is to test with the BBs that are actually going to be used and know their weight. Might be interesting to start using scales to confirm BB weight and the first time you do quite a few people are going to be getting kicked off site for lying.
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Or having to keep a stock of all the different weights and chrono with known BBs. Gonna push costs up though

 
Samurai said:
Really? Like 10BBs / person? :)
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Well, wouldn't that be closer to 120 BBs for each gun per person? Got to be prepared for everyone to have 0.12g or 0.43g? :)

I still don't get the problem though, do all the people using 0.2, then all the people on the next most common weight, and so on.

 
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Who the hell uses 0.12g BB? Unless it is a JustBBguns special for 330 fps. I thought all airsoft guns, not plinker crap, had to use a minimum of 0.20g. Is there not a simple conversion table? 0.20g BB is 330fps, 0.25g is xxxfps, etc.

I like the fact that The Mall uses their 0.20g BB in all magazines, either magazines they provide or fill they your mag with their BB to chrono.

What we really need is one industry standard, government regulated and calibrated, chronograph across all airsoft sites. That way your gun should not fluctuate readings from site to site.

 
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Jedi_Master said:
Who the hell uses 0.12g BB? Unless it is a JustBBguns special for 330 fps. I thought all airsoft guns, not plinker crap, had to use a minimum of 0.20g. Is there not a simple conversion table? 0.20g BB is 330fps, 0.25g is xxxfps, etc.

I like the fact that The Mall uses their 0.20g BB in all magazines, either magazines they provide or fill they your mag with their BB to chrono.

What we really need is one industry standard, government regulated and calibrated, chronograph across all airsoft sites. That way your gun should not fluctuate readings from site to site.
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This is exactly what sites need to do.

There is far too much fluctuation between chrono' brands.

 
a small tiny smidge over is fine with me

it is the w@nkers that overkill or just dicks in general on 349.99fps that I don't love

deliberate cheating chrono - well that to me just implies they have to overcompensate for stuff - not just airsoft

(and they are not just dicks but complete c**ts in my book)

 
Sitting Duck said:
a small tiny smidge over is fine with me

it is the w@nkers that overkill or just dicks in general on 349.99fps that I don't love

deliberate cheating chrono - well that to me just implies they have to overcompensate for stuff - not just airsoft

(and they are not just dicks but complete c**ts in my book)
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Do not sit on the fence Mr Duck ?I do hate cheaters. If they want to do that at chrono, what will they be like during gameplay.

 
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Not on the fence, just saying if some poor sod has a gun just creeping over now n then say 5fps over and no spare I could stomach that if they played carefully and properly

That instance is still over but I'd rather go against somebody who played fairly in the game that get overkilled loads and some more by twats taking me out and not noticing I'm hit walking back to spawn/dead zone - yes you will get the odd shot or two we know that walking back to dead/spawn etc....

but a few times I found me saying I'm hit, then shouting hit - hit ffs are they deaf as well as blind or just stupid

The deliberate cheaters - well they won't be the ones at the chrono trying to see if gun might just drop a whisker

they would have tried it already or altered stuff lunchtime or when they next have to reload/change battery etc...

others even try to sneak in guns that appeared to have passed the chrono - hence sites change their chrono pass marking methods

THESE are the ones that I really hope do not exist in high numbers coz as you say if they disregard the chrono then they really won't give a toss about anything else but themselves - certainly not fair play or other players safety etc......

I had SRC Dragon shooting 355-357 and couldn't use it which I accepted and used a 280-300fps gun instead

yes it was over but in reality there is no way the SRC would have outranged a sweetly setup TM @ say 300fps

so quite likely it was gonna fall well short and lose energy quicker resulting in perhaps less sting at medium range than the TM etc....

Though will point out range is magnus than raw fps - could still sting a bit in cqb even if dropping quickly

but I accepted this but luckily had a so-so spare to use - just saying I do understand the odd whisker and site's sensible ruling if just now n then the odd shot just creeping over the limit - think most sites apply a bit of sense/logic to rare slightly higher shots as long as it is just that

(The SRC was consistently over and can't argue with that I should add)

 
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I had a similar problem where my SA80 was 351 at the chrono. The Marshall said don't be a dick, use semi only & we'll test again at lunchtime. It had dropped to 344 after I chopped half a coil off so was more than happy :)

Marshall discretion is a must in my eyes & if you go along with what they say then you'll be ok. I've heard people saying 'my rifle won't pass so I'll dial up the hop so it does pass' then dial it down again so it's over

 
Sitting Duck said:
The deliberate cheaters - well they won't be the ones at the chrono trying to see if gun might just drop a whisker

they would have tried it already or altered stuff lunchtime or when they next have to reload/change battery etc...

others even try to sneak in guns that appeared to have passed the chrono - hence sites change their chrono pass marking methods
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I've three times now been to the marshals at the mall at to chrono either after the safety briefing or during lunch to have my gun pass, but already have only one zip tie already in the appropriate colour. :P So easy to avoid chrono at the mall, not that I would.

 
Samurai said:
Really? Like 10BBs / person? :)
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It doesn't seem like much I know, but when we used our 0.2s to chrono we used to get through loads. If we used our BBs we would need to have 0.2,0.25,0.28,0.3,0.36,0.4,0.43 at least. Some people's guns are fussy about what brand you use, what do you do then?

The logistics of keeping opened containers for each of the weights and not getting BBs dropping into the wrong containers is bad enough, then add the time factor - it takes long enough to get everyone chrono'd when they bring their own mag to the point already loaded, in this situation each person would have to be supervised by a marshal while they loaded the correct BBs before firing...

I think I'll stick to working on an honour system where I ask the player what weight he/she is running and compare the chrono results to our cross reference chart. If they choose to cheat the chrono they will soon be creating out in the field and get themselves chucked off site in my opinion.

Players hearing conversations such as the one which sparked this thread must see it as important to identify the culprits to the site manager who can then single them out for more aggressive testing and also ensure that their conduct in the field is monitored. Any breaches after that would result in a site ban.

 
Spot checks. Pick 5 people each morning to get the full Joule test. It's enough to show you mean business without having to crack out BBs for 30-40+ players each time.

I think a lot of people do it because they know they can get away with exploiting the honour system bit. Somewhere in-between might work well.

 
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proffrink said:
Spot checks. Pick 5 people each morning to get the full Joule test. It's enough to show you mean business without having to crack out BBs for 30-40+ players each time.
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No, because friends and favourites could be excluded from spot checks, and even if not the case any impression of that occuring erodes the site credibility. For transparancy better to do everyone, even if it does take more effort.

 
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I saw ACE Combat do spot checks after lunch on two friendly regulars who had GBBRs.

They were hot.

They were told not to use them.

I thought even more of the site after that.

 
Jedi_Master said:
proffrink said:
Spot checks. Pick 5 people each morning to get the full Joule test. It's enough to show you mean business without having to crack out BBs for 30-40+ players each time.
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No, beacuse friends and favourites could be excluded from spot checks, and even if not the case any impression of that occuring erodes the site credibility. For transparancy better to do everyone, even if it does take more effort.
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Not really, count the number of players, divide the total by 5 to get 'n', check every nth player.

 
Mid game last month Holmbush chronoed ALL the snipers on site BBs. Everyone passed.

 
GiantKiwi said:
I've used them in tornado grenades, mixed with 0.2's, 0.25's and 0.28's - makes for amusing spread :P
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Now that makes sense. I could not imagine someone skirmishing all day with 0.12g bb in an airsoft gun. Although I supose that occasionally a new player will have bought a cheap (two tone) BB gun from one of those BB 'specialist shops' and will use those little yellow balls through ignorance of not knowing their gun is not really suitable for airsoft. All airsoft guns are BB guns but not all BB guns are airsoft guns.

 
Jedi_Master said:
No, because friends and favourites could be excluded from spot checks, and even if not the case any impression of that occuring erodes the site credibility. For transparancy better to do everyone, even if it does take more effort.
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Sacarathe said:
Not really, count the number of players, divide the total by 5 to get 'n', check every nth player.
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This. If marshals can't learn how to impartially pick at random then their site is probably sh*t anyway for reasons other than hot guns.

 
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