Policing and Crime Bill Committee meeting

Did they just.. Did they laugh at the fact these 'war games' could be a hobby? Seems a bit snobby to me.

 
Governor said:
Did they just.. Did they laugh at the fact these 'war games' could be a hobby? Seems a bit snobby to me.
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Yes. But then the Shadow Secretary goes on to deftly illustrate that she is in fact a standard, left wing, hand wringer that thinks all guns are bad mmm'kay. The minister being quizzed is far more well informed despite never having used an airsoft weapon as it appears he is ex services.

She very much falls into the "I don't understand something therefore I must ridicule it" camp.

 
I think the government has got one part of this wrong, setting the lethal limit at 1J is far too low, you barely kill a rat with a 6J air pistol firing metal BBs at 5m. So I think the lethal limit ought to be higher and hence this removes part of the problem and the explanation for why reducing airsoft down if the lethal limit is higher. I think the bolt action rifles might still get into the lethal range if you went on the basis of muzzle velocity and defined lethality as a particular depth of penetration but normal full auto guns wouldn't.

Thankfully the amendment was rejected so airsoft is unimpacted for now but the ignorance that comes into this argument is kind of scary especially considering the police have zero reports of airsoft weapons hurting people with normal use. Why ban something that isn't dangerous?! The idea that 1J is lethal is absurd.

 
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I don't think we should ignore this now an amendment was rejected.

The fact that the entire room scoffed at the concept of Airsoft based on the most minumal and flawed of understandings of it shows the sport isn't marketed right to policy makers.

I think more and more when I hear politicians, especially this one using very recent terrorist incidents as a faux justification for their muddled agenda, that we need to move further and further away from the so-and-so Airsoft will be at the Shire Gun and Killing show type events, and closer to the paintball and sport lobby.

 
Lozart said:
http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/eb47b5a1-f38d-46da-86cb-26be4536bf7a

Oh FFS.... (watch from 10:44 onwards)
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Thanks for sharing this, i love the way she implies physics might have changed over the last 14 years, or that the testers then might have been flawed.

It's a shame there is not more note made of the impact properties of the projectiles fired for the airsoft exemption, that's of the main differences between airsoft projectiles and other more harmful projectiles at low joules

Everything else she said made reasonable sense, free publicity for patrolbase too.

I wish someone would tell them about the relationship between muzzle energy, flight range, and engagement ranges, the main reason for the muzzle energy is so we don't have to engage people at shorter less dyanamic distances etc.

Someone needs to tell that lady that real guns can be painted too.

 
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Sacarathe said:
Thanks for sharing this, i love the way she implies physics might have changed over the last 14 years, or that the testers then might have been flawed.

It's a shame there is not more note made of the impact properties of the projectiles fired for the airsoft exemption, that's of the main differences between airsoft projectiles and other more harmful projectiles at low joules

Everything else she said made reasonable sense, free publicity for patrolbase too.

I wish someone would tell them about the relationship between muzzle energy, flight range, and engagement ranges, the main reason for the muzzle energy is so we don't have to engage people at shorter less dyanamic distances etc.

Someone needs to tell that lady that real guns can be painted too.
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I picked up on the physics thing too, it's like she thought that 1J might have somehow changed over the last decade and a half (even though the research she referred to was actually from 2011 according to the minister).

Maybe someone should show her the Nerf gun that had a real shotgun stuffed up the inside of it? Actually scratch that - she'd want to ban Nerf guns next!

 
Somebody needs to take that thick dumb ar$e bitch out to a skirmish and shoot her chubby four eyed ar$e to bits

yup - stings a smidge but doubt if she would feel it under that amount of natural protection she is carrying...

luv - try and give it a go ffs - you will get a better understanding of toy guns and who knows you may start to get into shape a bit

She hasn't got a clue, plus I wouldn't bother trying to reverse engineer an airsoft gun into a firearm - even a mofo hpa one

(not going into what I would do/use but really wouldn't bother with an airsoft gun as a base for making a lethal firearm)

And these muppets are being paid to talk bollox on subjects they know very little about ???

Think I should consider going into politics - sounds right up my street but I have to put up with far too many idiots atm

let alone even more or nigh on all of them at Westminster

soz didn't quite watch all of it - just gave me the hump her rambling on and on and on - oooh sounds a bit/lot like moi :)

 
The big problem in my opinion is the use of the word 'lethal'

Ask the average person in the street what 'lethal' means and they will answer something along the lines of 'deadly, able to kill'. When people hear that airsoft guns can be easily converted to fire at lethal energies they assume that you could easily kill someone with one.

In firearms law lethal means able to cause more than a 'trivial or trifling injury'. This has always been open to interpretation hence why a limit is finally being set.

I believe that the wording needs to be changed.

It us currently easy to buy an air weapon (which is able to kill someone) which also looks like a real gun simply by proving you are old enough.

I think someone should point out to this particular minister that it is easy to convert a spray bottle to a section 5 prohibited firearm simply by filling it with chilli sauce or battery acid. I bet she would have the technical knowhow to do that herself. Perhaps we should ban spray bottles as there are plenty of existing cases of them being used like this in an offensive manner.

I'm not aware of any cases where someone has modified an airsoft gun and assaulted a police officer with it...

 
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One thing that stood out was her mentioning peoples claim of being able to make them lethal.

On this she has a point it wasn't that long ago that someone on here was claiming that they had a HPA gun shooting well over a 1000 fps and there was some wild claim he had seen one firing 30 joules.

That sort of crap is such a bad idea as it just gives all the idiots with no real clue more ammunition.

I think if airsofters carry on doing this sort of thing then eventually their stupidity will have consequences for the rest of us.

So if anybody reading this is planning on trying this do us all a favour and stop being a twat.

 
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I think the angry response isn't the way to go with this. We have to keep to solid facts and present them in a reasoned way, Airsoft is a close community and to some looks a little shady.

Yes ministers and members of parliament make laws & amendments to laws regarding people and industries they do not fully understand, which unfortunately is our system. What I find baffling is the lack of information the council had when discussing this amendment about Airsoft and the points raised above. unfortunately for us we do not have a strong enough argument presented by a proper council that represents Airsoft effectively to government so because of this they are simply misinformed.

Without correct representation this kind of situation will simply carry on because they will assume and cherry pick facts presented to them to make their own arguments, we all know that if any of us was in that room they could have presented a convincing argument that would have knocked her for six, but unfortunately none of us were.

In fact, no one was there with the correct information from the airsoft community to explain effectively what an Airsoft gun is and what it is capable of.

I also agree that to some people Airsoft does sound like a weird way to pass your spare time, but then again having a grapefruit stuffed your starfish doesn't sound fun either, but that doesn't stop the Tories doing it when down at Naughty-Nora's fun house during work time in Soho. The world is a big place with plenty room for everyone I suppose.

 
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Fumps said:
I think

I also agree that to some people Airsoft does sound like a weird way to pass your spare time, but then again having a grapefruit stuffed your starfish doesn't sound fun either, but that doesn't stop the Tories doing it when down at Naughty-Nora's fun house during work time in Soho. The world is a big place with plenty room for everyone I suppose.
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?

I actually nearly suffocated reading that (and no, I don't have an orange stuffed in my mouth)

 
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