Now i know that the law states you cannot buy a non two toned without a license although you can be gifted one? Would it be possible that say someone gifted you the airsoft gun and then you payed them money for something else say a pack of pens (albeit an expensive set of pens) or is this considered illegal? Thanks!
-
Hi Guest. Welcome to the new forums. All of your posts and personal messages have been migrated. Attachments (i.e. images) and The (Old) Classifieds have been wiped.
The old forums will be available for a couple of weeks should you wish to grab old images or classifieds listings content. Go Here
If you have any issues please post about them in the Forum Feedback thread: Go Here
UKARA Question?
- Thread starter iBacon
- Start date
SgtTalbert
Members
- Jan 26, 2012
- 871
- 373
Did you really just ask this question?
You are in fact asking if its legal to lie about how you got a RIF without a licence.
In what world & universe would it be 'OK' to be 'gifted' a gun and then give them money for something else to cover the cost.
Honestly...its people like you that most likely caused the law to come in.
Just play 3 times and get your own rifle.
Also...I know you shouldn't make assumptions...but considering the stupidity of the question, i give you a piece of advice so you dont have an accident. The barrel should point the way you wish to shoot.
You are in fact asking if its legal to lie about how you got a RIF without a licence.
In what world & universe would it be 'OK' to be 'gifted' a gun and then give them money for something else to cover the cost.
Honestly...its people like you that most likely caused the law to come in.
Just play 3 times and get your own rifle.
Also...I know you shouldn't make assumptions...but considering the stupidity of the question, i give you a piece of advice so you dont have an accident. The barrel should point the way you wish to shoot.
jcheeseright
Supporters
- Jun 14, 2012
- 4,280
- 2,261
Payment is payment, whether it be money, goods or services. If you're offering something in return other than gratitude then it's not a gift!
Mack
Members
- Jun 24, 2012
- 1,155
- 1,030
Can wee nip this in the bud now, there is no such thing as a UKARA licence. And to answer your question, NO.
Last edited by a moderator:
ScoobySnacks
Members
- Jul 20, 2012
- 264
- 0
Haha Mack, beat me to it.
There is NO SUCH THING AS A LICENCE FOR AIRSOFT WEAPONS!
UKARA is a scheme run by retailers, to protect retailers. Nothing more, nothing less.
Payment OF ANY KIND means it is not a gift, and therefore the person doing the giving requires a defence against prosecution (note it is the SELLER, not the buyer, who commits the offence.) It might be difficult to prove that something of value has been exchanged for the gun, but the police can be surprisingly dogged about these things. Really not worth the risk!
There is NO SUCH THING AS A LICENCE FOR AIRSOFT WEAPONS!
UKARA is a scheme run by retailers, to protect retailers. Nothing more, nothing less.
Payment OF ANY KIND means it is not a gift, and therefore the person doing the giving requires a defence against prosecution (note it is the SELLER, not the buyer, who commits the offence.) It might be difficult to prove that something of value has been exchanged for the gun, but the police can be surprisingly dogged about these things. Really not worth the risk!
If you are over 18 years old then you only have to play 3 times over not less than two months to have a valid defence so why try to get around the rules with an artificial gifting scheme?
I would love to see the rules changed so that junior players could also have RIFs even if they had to play more games over a longer period to gain their defence. Maybe for under 18's it could be the parents who gain the defence through their kids playing and they have to buy and take responsibility for the guinds.
After that they could ban all two-tones which would stop parents buying a potentially dangerous toy for their kid
I would love to see the rules changed so that junior players could also have RIFs even if they had to play more games over a longer period to gain their defence. Maybe for under 18's it could be the parents who gain the defence through their kids playing and they have to buy and take responsibility for the guinds.
After that they could ban all two-tones which would stop parents buying a potentially dangerous toy for their kid
two_zero
Members
- May 9, 2011
- 1,871
- 634
Thing is, once you're over 18 you got more legal responsibility, and also, you're expected to be a bit more mature. If you asked me who I think is more likely to take out a RIF in public if they owned one, a 10 year old or a 20 year old, I'd got for the 10 year old.
That is why I believe that parents would have to acept liability for control og RIFs. Mostly they will be transporting the kids and guns to/from the airsoft sites and should be able to keep them safe at home.
Maybe it weould be better is the age limit was reduced to 17 for purchase as they can start driving cars at that age (if they can afford insurance!). Perobably far more risk of them doing damage with a car than an airsoft RIF but the law doesn't always make sence!
Maybe it weould be better is the age limit was reduced to 17 for purchase as they can start driving cars at that age (if they can afford insurance!). Perobably far more risk of them doing damage with a car than an airsoft RIF but the law doesn't always make sence!
ScoobySnacks
Members
- Jul 20, 2012
- 264
- 0
"Not unreasonable" ???
The law is unclear, open to interpretation and pretty badly written.
Banning an object because one or two people might abuse/misuse it, how is that reasonable?
As for the "x number of games in x number of months" that is not set out anywhere in law. It is purely the UKARA scheme's requirement.
The airsoft community is running scared. It shouldn't be! There are probably as many airsofters as there are users of real firearms in this country, and as such we have a reasonable amount of clout if we can work together. What we really could do with is a "UKAPA" scheme, run by players, for players, where sites can register and record your visits as evidence of a defense for a seller. It could be turned in to a powerful lobby organisation, in a similar way to the shooting organisations. People can join up, pay a small fee and the money raised could go towards fighting our corner. UKARA will not do this, unless it affects their members businesses. If we just lie down and accept the restrictions they will get ever tighter until airsoft guns of all sorts are banned altogether, or perhaps worse put "on ticket".
We have a right to enjoy our pastime. There are laws to punish those that abuse items resembling firearms, so why are legitimate users being punished?
Legislation is almost universally detrimental to rights and liberties. To encourage them by bending over and not working around the laws is to invite them to limit our liberties further and further! If you think that, without a fight, the law will be allowed to rest as it is then you are naive!
rjmcgough
Members
- Jan 26, 2012
- 150
- 0
I find it funny that a 16 year old (in Scotland) can get married without their parents permission and have children but are not trusted with an airsoft gun, not even a bright green one!
In answer to iBacon's question: You could get given the gun as a 'gift' and then buy a pack of pens off them at a ridiculous price but if something did happen and the police got involved I am sure they would still see that as buying the gun.
In answer to iBacon's question: You could get given the gun as a 'gift' and then buy a pack of pens off them at a ridiculous price but if something did happen and the police got involved I am sure they would still see that as buying the gun.
Last edited by a moderator:
jcheeseright
Supporters
- Jun 14, 2012
- 4,280
- 2,261
ScoobySnacks
Members
- Jul 20, 2012
- 264
- 0
jcheese, why not?
If a person is adult enough to decide that they wish to marry, then surely they can decide about whether to drink or not.
The government's desire to control every aspect of our lives is pernicious and sinister in the extreme!
If a person is adult enough to decide that they wish to marry, then surely they can decide about whether to drink or not.
The government's desire to control every aspect of our lives is pernicious and sinister in the extreme!
Mack
Members
- Jun 24, 2012
- 1,155
- 1,030
slightly off topic here, Alchol laws are a bit like those for RIFs
If you’re under 18, it is against the law:
for someone to sell you alcohol
to buy or try to buy alcohol
for an adult to buy or try to buy alcohol for you
to drink alcohol in licensed premises (eg a pub or restaurant)
However if you’re 16 or 17 and accompanied by an adult, you can drink (but not buy) beer, wine or cider with a meal.
If you’re 16 or under, you may be able to go to a pub (or premises primarily used to sell alcohol) if you’re accompanied by an adult. However, this isn’t always the case. It can also depend on:
the specific conditions for that premises
the licensable activities taking place there
It’s illegal to give alcohol to children under 5.
Source;https://www.gov.uk/alcohol-young-people-law
If you’re under 18, it is against the law:
for someone to sell you alcohol
to buy or try to buy alcohol
for an adult to buy or try to buy alcohol for you
to drink alcohol in licensed premises (eg a pub or restaurant)
However if you’re 16 or 17 and accompanied by an adult, you can drink (but not buy) beer, wine or cider with a meal.
If you’re 16 or under, you may be able to go to a pub (or premises primarily used to sell alcohol) if you’re accompanied by an adult. However, this isn’t always the case. It can also depend on:
the specific conditions for that premises
the licensable activities taking place there
It’s illegal to give alcohol to children under 5.
Source;https://www.gov.uk/alcohol-young-people-law
Last edited by a moderator:
SheriffHD
Members
- May 27, 2011
- 814
- 100
I actually Like that Idea.
As we all know, UKARA isnt a legal requirement, just the easiest way for airsofters to prove that they are in fact playing the sport.
I think putting the resopseablity unto the player and not to the site makes it better as a whole, It may even help to sport to grow in a way.
I am a member of a rilfe club, And because of that membership I ended up getting a shotgun licence along with my firearm licence because the the club I was apart of helped me out, giving me additional information that I wouldnt of got from my own as I simple didn't know of it.
I guess what Im saying that, If there were more airsoft clubs to get people into the sport, it could push people to form teams, get friendly competition going and by doing such letting the sport grow.
Do we need something like UKAPA when there is UKAPU already in existence (see link)
http://www.ukapu.org.uk
Probably better to support and help develop UKAPU than try and start something new.as it is always difficult finding enough volunteers to run these things.
http://www.ukapu.org.uk
Probably better to support and help develop UKAPU than try and start something new.as it is always difficult finding enough volunteers to run these things.
ScoobySnacks
Members
- Jul 20, 2012
- 264
- 0
Richard, thanks for that, I wasn't aware that the organisation existed.
I guess the thing to remember is that the people who stand to be prosecuted, as the law stands, are the retailers, the people who sell the RIF's, so it kind of makes sense for them to run the scheme. That doesn't mean that a players organisation isn't a good idea. It gives players a stronger voice to defend the sport if they have numbers behind them.
I guess the thing to remember is that the people who stand to be prosecuted, as the law stands, are the retailers, the people who sell the RIF's, so it kind of makes sense for them to run the scheme. That doesn't mean that a players organisation isn't a good idea. It gives players a stronger voice to defend the sport if they have numbers behind them.
Similar threads
