Just-Cos …. The insurance policy

[Tommikka]

.

What makes and models of actual ray guns currently exist, or are discontinued? ?

For any rayguns held by the 501st legion - every raygun is based on a real firearm, based on the original Star Wars props being anything they had in the studio props 

…. keep your eyes out for Bristol news over the weekend 

UKGF don’t tend to attract the idiots, and they do put out good guidelines on not being an idiot, but as we are pretty much in central Bristol this weekend extra reminders have been posted 

View attachment 146676

 

[Tommikka]

I'm assuming, That what they are doing is a repeat of the old 'Battle Orders' defence.. 

Essentially Just-Cos is acting as a 'cosplay group' and providing PLI to its members.

They aren’t, nor are they providing PLI to members.   It’s entirely ‘nod, nod, wink, wink’ and a for them to sell RIFs to non airsofters and charge people more for a non defence 

They even claimed on their website to ‘partner’ with a comicon organiser who had RIFs banned from their events 

The refund I eventually got was for being ‘too stupid’ to understand that it was a load of bollocks due to asking awkward questions about insurance 

 

[Rogerborg]

For any rayguns held by the 501st legion - every raygun is based on a real firearm

Based on a $645 million budget.

 

[Tommikka]

501st legion spotted leaving comicon before closing time

View attachment 146708

(Guest / featured Cosplayers have different rules than traders)

The cosplay competition finals generally trigger the end of comicon rather than the official closing as it’s one of the attractions

 

[Rogerborg]

501st legion

 

[Paranoiddroid]

Ahoy and welcome.  I think you'll fit in well here.

Sounds like some weird nerd stuff.

Maaaaaaybe.  The definition of a RIF is that it has an appearance that is so realistic as to make it indistinguishable, for all practical purposes, from:

(a) a firearm of an actual make or model of modern firearm (whether existing or discontinued); or

(b) something falling within a description which could be used for identifying, by reference to their appearance, the firearms falling within a category of actual modern firearms which, even though they include firearms of different makes or models (whether existing or discontinued) or both, all have the same or a similar appearance.

What makes and models of actual ray guns currently exist, or are discontinued? ?

The problem is the test they use for 'indistinguishable' and 'similar appearance' is a varient of the 'man on the street' test. 

So basically anything approximately gun shaped and black/grey would qualify. 

It's an awfully written piece of legislation. 

And as for fitting in I'm hurt you forgot about me from ArniesAirsoft lol. 

I'm still vaguely around just very ill. 

They aren’t, nor are they providing PLI to members.   It’s entirely ‘nod, nod, wink, wink’ and a for them to sell RIFs to non airsofters and charge people more for a non defence 

They even claimed on their website to ‘partner’ with a comicon organiser who had RIFs banned from their events 

The refund I eventually got was for being ‘too stupid’ to understand that it was a load of bollocks due to asking awkward questions about insurance 

Oh yeah I get what they are doing in real terms but... It does appear to be a truly cynical attempt at fulfilling letter of the law whilst providing something that's not fit for purpose/utter bollocks. 

 

[Bnjemann]

Oh yeah I get what they are doing in real terms but... It does appear to be a truly cynical attempt at fulfilling letter of the law whilst providing something that's not fit for purpose/utter bollocks. 

This is probably the exact case.

It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if this whole ordeal is just another way of getting RIFs out the door. Maybe if the law was actually revised to make sense and give collectors some way of getting RIFs whilst proving that they’re not going to take them on the rob then we’d have less of this silly tip toeing about some companies are trying to pull.

JustCos accepting retailers seem to be playing on the “insured activity” part of the VCRA, but I feel like if that were the case, surely, something like a practical shooting society would better fit that bill? Especially with the whole “Recreation of military or law enforcement scenarios” part of the exceptions, since practical shooters are literally running around partaking in doing exactly that, as they’re often doing courses used to train military and LEO personnel. 

This defense is extraordinary to me because it’s only airsoft retailers that accept it from what I’ve seen, all the non firing replica weapon stores like SOF, who sell non firing replicas that would be more appealing to cosplay events, don’t seem to acknowledge its existence. Furthermore, many major public cosplay events don’t even allow realistic imitation firearms.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Does anyone else apart from airsoftworld actually accept just-cos as a defence?

 

[Galvatron]

Does anyone else apart from airsoftworld actually accept just-cos as a defence?

[Name redacted], unless they've seen sense over the past year.

 

[Bnjemann]

Just saw a video on my recommended feed on YouTube “confirming” and advocating this as a “Loophole”. Some guy who collects airsoft guns claimed to have used the insurance as a defense to purchase a RIF from an established and known online retailer. In the video itself, he shows 2 handgun RIFs. In the spirit of the legality of the sport of airsoft and fearing what consequences an en masse “way around it” may bring us, I’ve opted not to link it.
 

I think when the video gains more traction, action could be taken where it’s no longer a problem. For better (retailers stop accepting it without seeing proof its being used in cosplay, just like the re-enactors / Military vehicle restoration crowd have to) or for worse (legislative changes)

? Owl is monitoring the situation.

 

[Rogerborg]

retailers stop accepting it without seeing proof its being used in cosplay

Doesn't matter, as it's not a defence.  You could argue it's a "theatrical performance", but then why not argue that?

I wouldn't shed a tear if Airsoft World came a cropper over it - they know exactly what they're doing, and the observable lack of enforcement will be inciting other retailers to follow suit. Better that we lose one retailer than many.

 

[Tommikka]

Doesn't matter, as it's not a defence.  You could argue it's a "theatrical performance", but then why not argue that?

I wouldn't shed a tear if Airsoft World came a cropper over it - they know exactly what they're doing, and the observable lack of enforcement will be inciting other retailers to follow suit. Better that we lose one retailer than many.

Totally agree, it’s entirely nod nod wink wink

There was much more credibility for the retailer who just put in a tick box of “I promise that I am buying this RIF for legal airsoft skirmishing” (and if I recall correctly is no longer in business)

Any retailer that promotes a fake define is worse than one who just ignores the VCRA - and if/when an authority chooses to act they are likely to be an easy target especially as the judiciary are never happy with offenders that just take the piss

Those of us who like our hobbies should be happy to condemn those who endanger them 

On the ‘theatrical’ slant of cosplay, that is the route that JustCos could have taken with a cosplay society insurance policy

There was someone on the forum a few years ago enquiring about how to get a  RIF for cosplay, first leading to the ‘no answer’, until it clicked with me on who they were and that I know them -  an actual ‘paid professional cosplayer’, complete with full insurance etc with the genuine ability to lay claim to ‘theatrical’

 

[BigStew]

Doesn't matter, as it's not a defence.  You could argue it's a "theatrical performance", but then why not argue that?

I wouldn't shed a tear if Airsoft World came a cropper over it - they know exactly what they're doing, and the observable lack of enforcement will be inciting other retailers to follow suit. Better that we lose one retailer than many.

It's so disgusting when a former Airsoft World employee was so involved with stopping airsoft getting banned.

 

[Rogerborg]

There was much more credibility for the retailer who just put in a tick box of “I promise that I am buying this RIF for legal airsoft skirmishing” (and if I recall correctly is no longer in business)

Fat Bob's, I believe.

 

[hunter511]

For me letting bellends like this purchase RIFs is exactly why Just-Cos shouldn't exist

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqxzjlj27w8o

 

[Lyndication]

For me letting bellends like this purchase RIFs is exactly why Just-Cos shouldn't exist

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqxzjlj27w8o

If you read the article, he didn't purchase a rif, and he didn't use Just Cos.

He bought a two tone and painted it. He's underage to have a legal defense to buy RIFs.

 

[hunter511]

Noted. And not to get into an argument with a random on the internet......

But the fact remains that nigh on every time there is an incident like this it is a cosplayer that has decided to mince round central london/a major train station etc with a RIF. The fact that most major conventions have in their house rules not to bring realistic replicas as part of your cosplay further undermines the point of Just-Cos......

 

[Cannonfodder]

He bought a two tone and painted it. He's underage to have a legal defense to buy RIFs.

Which also means he's not old enough to buy an IF either. 

 

[Bnjemann]

For me letting bellends like this purchase RIFs is exactly why Just-Cos shouldn't exist

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqxzjlj27w8o

If it means anything my personal opinion is anyone over 18 with no ill intentions should be allowed to purchase whatever imitation firearms they want, realistic or not, and that misuse potential isn’t going to cut it when criminals can just buy an air pistol if they want a realistic imitation for the rob, or do what people are doing in reality and just using literally any form of improvised handheld weapon.
 

That being said, this guys not over 18 and he spray painted them, which he had a reason to do I guess, it’s just he’s not an adult and therefor as far as I’m led to believe, this prevents him from being allowed to. 
 

This is the second instance this year of someone choosing the worst possible method of transporting their RIFs to a comic convention, just like the geezer earlier in the year who put the “special” in his special forces LARP by entering a crowded train in ready stance. That being said that guy was arguably worse.

Very unfortunate and incidents like this will have the middle class 30-65 year old virtue signalling crowd demanding we legislate further to prevent incidents like this instead of tackling actual violent crime.

 

[Tommikka]

The fact that most major conventions have in their house rules not to bring realistic replicas as part of your cosplay further undermines the point of Just-Cos......

The point of JustCos is well established to be nothing to do with Comicon - the comicon that they listed as partnered bans RIFs

The point of JustCos is to add an income stream and claims to provide insurance for claims of ‘scaring people’ - on that basis this individual would have a claim