Multi barrel shotguns in cqb ???

[Kls77]

What's people thoughts on multi shot shotguns in cqb??  

All cqb places I go to frown upon the hole trigger spam and come down hard saying it only takes one BB but then let shotguns on site which allow 3 to 6 bbs at one time ??  

I have been on the end of a few from very close range . So surely I can at least double tap lol ?

 

[Rogerborg]

It is a curious one.  Some of them are unhopped / randomly hopped and/or low powered junk where you'd be lucky to get one BB on target at 20 feet.  But some are not, and that "predator targeting" rash if you unload at 6 feet can be unpleasant.  Also, if you end up with just one BB loaded, they can sometimes shoot a bit... spicy.

In mitigation, I'd suggest that they're generally used by people who know what they're doing and who aren't out there to be tOp TiEr OpErAtOrS - I'm always mindful to keep mine aimed down, even more so than with other toys.

As with a lot of airsoft, I suspect it comes down to what a given site owner / marshals / marshals' mates want to use, until one of them objects to taking a full load in the face.

 

[TheFull9]

I suppose they have a fairly painful/powerful little 'danger zone' where if you catch every bb in one blast on your exposed skin/tight clothes within.. ~5-10m(?) then that's a fair bit of energy transfer, but I gotta say I barely ever see these things actually be used in games.  That's 100% totally anecdotal of course, but I feel like they're rare sights at most sites and you'd have to be fairly unlucky to experience the aforementioned scenario.  That said I think there's a fair few airsofters in the UK who probably have one local site to go along with their local pub and that's their stomping ground 2-4 times a month.  Then if that site is one of the very few indoor game zones with tons of close shooting and then a few regulars get interested in TM 870s and also get their mates in to them...

Either way, you can definitely pelt 5+ shots in to someone in a second or so with an AR AEG with nice internals using semi auto for sure, but I don't think I've ever personally been in a site brief where there was a hard and fast rule against quickly spamming AEG semi shots under 10m to try and win an engagement.  Obviously one should stop once their opponent has their hand up, I've been on both the receiving end of over shooting up close and at least twice I can think of I've started pulling the trigger quickly and unfortunately put quite a few bbs in to someone 5m away before my brain's registered their hit call and made my finger stop moving.

 

[strykerles]

I use a Cyma SGR12 sometimes in cqb and try not to use it up close if possible as I've been shot by it and it does hurt (keep a pistol handy)

it can't be spammed as quick as an rifle due to the increased wind time. it's not possible to fire as quick. My AK could easily put out 10 bbs before the SGR has put out 6

it is a bit of a grey area when it comes to allowed shots though

 

[MrTea]

Pretty sure my local CQB place says shotguns are to be 3 BBs only IIRC. As for overshooting or semi-ROF I think it's; if you don't want it done to you, don't do it to someone else. If you're going to be a dick, you'll be treated like one so don't abuse ROF. If it takes one BB, then use one. Accidental overshooting happens from time to time but it's easy to tell who's doing it on purpose.

That aside, i've seen one person running a shotgun at my CQB place. They shot me at almost point blank. It sucked but no more than your random HPA hi-capa bursting 3 rounds into you.

 

[Cannonfodder]

My go to primary in CQB is a shotgun and I've never had any issues in game. Yes I can fire 3/6 bbs with one pull of the trigger, but a well tuned AEG or GBB can put out shots almost as quickly when you factor in the time taken to rack it after each shot. There's also the limited ammo capacity so they're not a good choice if you want to spam the trigger.

Like many things in life I suppose it comes down to the flesh coloured squishy bit and how much of a twat they are

 

[Lozart]

Back in the good old days of The Mall there was a couple of AA12s. I seem to recall the rule of three being enforced after someone had a particularly hilarious/savage round of spamming the fuck out of the 6 shot setting with a drum mag on.

 

[Rogerborg]

There's always some twunt pushing the "Well, you didn't explicitly say that I couldn't do it" boundaries, isn't there?  

 

[Krisz]

Pump-action shotgun requires a completely different approach gamestyle wise compared to an AEG or pistol. Face to face you're not gonna able spam it like a hpa tapped short stroked pistol, feathered hpa engine or trigger response built AEG.

Joule output is more important in my opinion because 3 god forbid 6 bbs does hurt especially when it's a tight grouping.

Altough, your average speedsofter cunt puts the same amount into you in a milisecond so in reality it doesn't really matter.

Also, 6 shots aren't practical because you get out less trigger pull per shell/magazine plus the spread is crazy.

The other thing is that you have to be a real wanker to run it on 6. And sooner or later someone is gonna mention it to the marshall so there is no point to hurt others for some childish power fantasy.

 

[Lozart]

Pump-action shotgun requires a completely different approach gamestyle wise compared to an AEG or pistol. Face to face you're not gonna able spam it like a hpa tapped short stroked pistol, feathered hpa engine or trigger response built AEG.

Joule output is more important in my opinion because 3 god forbid 6 bbs does hurt especially when it's a tight grouping.

Altough, your average speedsofter cunt puts the same amount into you in a milisecond so in reality it doesn't really matter.

Also, 6 shots aren't practical because you get out less trigger pull per shell/magazine plus the spread is crazy.

The other thing is that you have to be a real wanker to run it on 6. And sooner or later someone is gonna mention it to the marshall so there is no point to hurt others for some childish power fantasy.

Wankers will be wankers WHATEVER gun you give them. End of.

When the events mentioned in my post occurred the pump action gas breachers and tactical 870's were all the rage and people were happily pumping away like a hormonal teenager. When the AA12 turned up it was a new thing, it was hilarious and most importantly they were more money than most people wanted to splash on a shottie. They are an outlier in the world of airsoft dick moves because yes, you can massively overkill with it but it's also massive, plastic and expensive so not many people bothered.

As for the 6 shot spread - that's kind of the point of a shotgun. 

 

[Tackle]

Wankers will be wankers WHATEVER gun you give them. End of.

When the events mentioned in my post occurred the pump action gas breachers and tactical 870's were all the rage and people were happily pumping away like a hormonal teenager. When the AA12 turned up it was a new thing, it was hilarious and most importantly they were more money than most people wanted to splash on a shottie. They are an outlier in the world of airsoft dick moves because yes, you can massively overkill with it but it's also massive, plastic and expensive so not many people bothered.

As for the 6 shot spread - that's kind of the point of a shotgun. 

View attachment 119142

 

[Cannonfodder]

Whilst I'd say using 6 shot mode is unnecessary I wouldn't call it wankery. I remember playing at Electrowerkz where many people had a M203 hanging off the bottom of their AR. Shells for the could hold anything up to 200 bbs and I don't remember anyone complaining

 

[Lozart]

Whilst I'd say using 6 shot mode is unnecessary I wouldn't call it wankery. I remember playing at Electrowerkz where many people had a M203 hanging off the bottom of their AR. Shells for the could hold anything up to 200 bbs and I don't remember anyone complaining

Yeah but most moscarts hurt about as much as being licked by puppies.

 

[Rogerborg]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but do all 6-shot guns load 2-BBs per barrel per puff, and therefore split the energy between them?

I've had some ouchies from 3-shot BBs, but 6-shots seem to float a cloud of BBs instead.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but do all 6-shot guns load 2-BBs per barrel per puff, and therefore split the energy between them?

You're right, 2 bbs per barrel. This has got me thinking though, would the extra weight of 2 bbs cause joule creep? I might have to do some testing on sunday

 

[Madhouse]

It's an interesting debate this one. My usual site allows tri-shot albeit at a slightly reduced power - 0.84J / 300fps on a 0.2 IIRC.

A few people have commented that they appear to have been in contact with The Predator, but it's all been good natured rather than moaning about shotties, in fact it's probably increased their popularity if anything!

If the shotties had the same joules as those in semi then I'd be raising the question as to why they get three shots when the rest of us get one, but it seems the limits are taking both that and the up-close-and-personal nature of the shot into account.

 

[Rogerborg]

would the extra weight of 2 bbs cause joule creep?

Only if they're over-volumed, which (as gas guns) they might very well be.

My usual site allows tri-shot albeit at a slightly reduced power - 0.84J / 300fps on a 0.2 IIRC

With a single BB loaded?  Testing can be an issue, as you get wacky readings if you empty three balls at once.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Only if they're over-volumed, which (as gas guns) they might very well be

I'll do some tests on sunday

With a single BB loaded?  Testing can be an issue, as you get wacky readings if you empty three balls at once.

Could the dodgy readings be down to the chrono? I know some don't like full auto fire so I guess 3 at once could also cause problems 

 

[Rogerborg]

Could the dodgy readings be down to the chrono? I know some don't like full auto fire so I guess 3 at once could also cause problems

Dunno. Notionally, it should be calculated from the first BB to cross the first sensor vs the first BB to cross the 2nd sensor, so no problem.

In practice, they seem able to produce values from 0 to over 9,000 on typical chronos.

 

[Tackle]

Whilst I'd say using 6 shot mode is unnecessary I wouldn't call it wankery. I remember playing at Electrowerkz where many people had a M203 hanging off the bottom of their AR. Shells for the could hold anything up to 200 bbs and I don't remember anyone complaining

LOL to be fair Electrowerkz even looked like an S&M torture chamber, wouldn't be surprised if some of the players were there for the pain?