Problem selling a rif

[alxndrhll]

I say you've done the right thing and ended the sale as there's more red flags than a Soviet mayday parade

I will. If he's an ex copper and a para legal then I'm a former porn star and next pope

@1967PF44got any thing to say? Or should we all assume you're an untrustworthy cunt? 

Once a pornstar, always a pornstar in my book ?.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Wasn't the person in question the one who started a thread on the ukara database and GDPR? Iirc it didn't go well for him

 

[ak2m4]

Wasn't the person in question the one who started a thread on the ukara database and GDPR? Iirc it didn't go well for him

Yes, last week.  Kinda makes sense now.  

 

[Guest]

I almost wish Mr Police wasn’t on my ignore list….. actually, no I don’t ???

 

[1967PF44]

I say you've done the right thing and ended the sale as there's more red flags than a Soviet mayday parade

I will. If he's an ex copper and a para legal then I'm a former porn star and next pope

@1967PF44got any thing to say? Or should we all assume you're an untrustworthy cunt? 

Good luck with your chosen path, your eminence ! An interesting combination- however I am a former police officer of 20 years experience- and a qualified para legal - more interesting is that I provided the seller with an easy way to verify my claims in a single call to the largest airsoft retailer in the Uk, who would have also instantly verified my defence, player status and UKARA.  My feedback alone on this site shows I’m not a chancer but as an occasional reseller I often haggle hard to secure a bargain! I never hide that I am a reseller and a broker of deals for people who cannot be bothered dealing with some of the “cunts” (I like that word too) on social media and sales sites. You on the another hand I doubt very much will make next pope…..

Yes, last week.  Kinda makes sense now.  

It went quite well - it answered the questions I didn’t know the answered too 

 

[1967PF44]

A would be buyer gave me what he thought was his UKARA number. He seemed to think that it wasn't necessary and the site he played at and was a marshal for, could vouch for him. He also said that I could check his site feedback or Linkedin page. I responded that word of mouth from somebody you don't know meant nothing. And how could I check anything if he hadn't given me his name?

I asked him to supply his name and postcode. He sent me a photo of a metal tag with the information. However I had difficulty reading it. In any case I told him that a photo was not necessarily proof of anything.

All I wanted him to do was give me his name, postcode and UKARA number. He messaged me 12 times over a period of seven days and only in the last message typed out all three of his details. The UKARA number he originally gave me, which he said he thought he could remember, was close but not the correct one. He later corrected it.  So far, so good.

When he learned that I intended to check details with a retailer, he told me that anyone providing me with information that an UKARA number had expired would be breaking the law. Apparently it would be a breach of the General Data Protection Regulation. Since he is a former police officer and has also worked as a para legal, I am not sure how to respond.

He believes I don't understand the law, and he may be right. 

Quite frankly the whole business has put me off selling. I have seriously considered just keeping the gun. Would anyone care to comment? 

So your claims are almost accurate - and I think this has got out of hand - because of a misunderstanding- or misrepresentation of what was actually said - message 1 was I’ll buy that if it’s still available, - you respond - what’s your Ukara ? Very fair and indeed well intentioned- I support anyone insuring that airsoft guns only get sold to those with a genuine legal use for them 

message two  I think my Ukara is ****** I have used it for years I don’t buy from retailers - subsequent message contains a clear image of my name the Ukara number and post code on the tags issued by my regular site where I Marshall, I provided you their details to make it easy to verify my player status - as I honestly believe that you have no right to check my player status on the Ukara database if you are not a retailer who subscribes to the informs and is selling me a RIf - I asked if you were a. Retailer (you didn’t answer!

in aa further separate message I also provided my full name post code and Ukara with an additional zero on front as it’s reproduced with  one zero on my emails and 2 on my tags - not sure what one is correct - however a search in the database on either finds it.

as far as the law is concerned - I simply tried to explain that UKara is Not the only available defence and that verifying my player status through my site would be less cumbersome and easier for you. 
 

it appears the matter is further complicated by the fact you have not received the message with my name and postcode - which is unfortunate as all of this nonsense could have been avoided - I just wanted you pay you your asking price for a gun I wanted to add to my collection . Lol 

anyway, the trolls have had there fun as a result of the genuine questions asked - I bear you no hard feelings -  and wish you luck with future sales and purchases 

PS The GDPR expert I have access to has confirmed that the sharing of my Ukara status with a member of the public who does not subscribe to the information would meet the “lawful purpose” test and friendly retailers who check People out for their mates are probably breaking the law. @ak2m4

Sounds like the Guys a cock.

All he had to do was provide a Ukara number, name and postage address. If he can't manage to do that and is generating excuses then there's something wrong.

Actually checking a Ukara number isn't a breach of privacy. All you are doing is checking information that has been provided, and none of that information is sensitive. It doesn't tell you his bank details ect.

And if he is/has been a police officer, and you sell it to him without Ukara then you have just provided them with your own court case. It's time to walk away from the sale.

For the benefit of the doubt the information was provided at the first request along with further supporting information to help the seller easily verify my player status. 2nd my UKARA status is in fact “personal information” in terms of GDPR and is only accessible to those retailers that I have consented to using for the purposes of selling me a RIF. None of us have consented to that being made available to the general  public 

many Airsofters I know have to

conceal their interests in the hobby from sensitive employers 

The potential buyer is a prick.

Ukara wouldn't release any information he wouldn't be giving you already; name, address, etc. If you're shipping to him.

If a retailer confirms active or non active only then they aren't releasing any personal data either so aren't in breach of data protection, they are confirming only what you have offered.

If they have been a police officer in the past then the lack of intelligence seems to make me glad to think that they no longer are. 

Forget them as a buyer, move on or keep the rif.

Hmm, labelling me a prick on one half of the story !! 

Thanks.

It is true that somebody could send me a photo of him skirmishing with a rif, but if I had never met him and didn't know what he looked like,  how would I know it was him?

As I explained you have the same issue on any anonymous site ! 
 

nobody on here uses their real name (well very few do) mine at least my initials - I offered several sources of information to help you verify my player status- my linkd in profile, my name post code Ukara, my regular site, my regular retailer, my profile feedback here is all positive - I genuinely don’t know what else I could have done - lol  

 

[BreadyC]

Hmm, labelling me a prick on one half of the story !! 

You did tell us you were a cop too...

 

[1967PF44]

To echo what has already been said, the wannabee buyer is obviously an idiot, & probably a serial liar, I'd walk away now as he sounds like he'd be a potential serious problem later on. 

PS, in the interests of all members here, in order not to get caught up in this possible entrapment, I'd name the guy ! 

My moneys on him being a sub 18 schoolkid bullshitter. 

It’s was me- I like the judgement based on one slightly inaccurate side of the story - lol serial liar and under 18 lol, part of that I can only

Wish was true - 

You did tell us you were a cop too...

Former cop - long retired !! 

 

[Tackle]

FYI, there are at least a couple of well known retailers, that when presented with a name/address/ukara number, will willingly confirm whether its active & name & the address is correct. 

They do so in the knowledge that while they have no financial gain from doing so, they're helping to ensure that even rifs sold privately go to someone who has demonstrated their entitlement to posses them. 

For that they should be commended, while we don't all agree with the vcra & how it's applied, it's all we have so no one can be criticised for trying to adhere to it, even if decide to withdraw from a sale because theyre being overly cautious or unsure of the legality, it with the right intentions. 

PS, yep it is based on a one sided story, but 12 messages to establish name/address/ukara sounds like hard work, & then you allegedly spit your dummy out about gdpr within a system that you signed up for, & your reluctance for the op to check its validity.......... 

Doesn't come across as fishy at all lol?, hence the reactions of most peeps here, myself included. 

It is still the school holidays after all?

 

[1967PF44]

Note - for the ‘lawful basis’ context, the OP would be the law checking up on someone. As opposed to using the UKARA as a source to confirm the information provided.

Anyone who would be committing a GDPR offence with UKARA data would be the data holders.

Either the central UKARA register, or the sites register.

The data is collected for specified purposes, which include checking a registered players details are valid.

The data should not be held longer than required ….. so in theory expired memberships could be deleted and validation would come back as failed

But legacy data can be retained for a reasonable period to protect sellers if they needed to legally justify a past sale.

The guy is being a dick, but they are also correct that UKARA details are not required and the seller could ‘legally’ sell based on other ‘evidence’ such as photos of playing 

(But it is up to the seller what they accept as it is the seller who is legally responsible for any UKARA offence)

(((PPS as a former ‘former police officer’, what would be their opinion of gov.uk websites & the motor insurance industry providing open access to whether or not a vehicles registration has valid MOT, road duty & insurance, including a full MOT history of failures ?

That can tell you a fair bit of ‘personal’ information about the owners 

You clearly understand the GDPR stuff - the mot/insurance stuff is specifically exempt - and actually you can’t access keepers details etc. 

the “ lawful purpose” test however I don’t think  any of us quite understand properly - a private seller has no lawful purpose in accessing a retailers database - the purpose of the database is to Allow subscribing “retailers” to verify player status to defend the retailer against prosecution for a section 36 ?? Offence.  The “personal information” that is protected by law is not my name, postcode or Ukara No, but it is my status - active, inactive or void (I think is the third term)  the information commissioner has previously confirmed in a case that this is “personal information” and went beyond that by saying it’s also personally sensitive. I know a few players that conceal their enjoyment and participation of airsoft from

their particularly sensitive employers and in one case family - imagine if my employer (sensitive to firearms issues) added a search of the UKARA database to their pre promotion due diligence checks ??   
 

in any case it’s all a bit of nonsense - I provided the guy with my Ukara No and a whole load of additional information to make it easy for him to verify my player status. - why he has behaved the way he has is beyond me - I have nothing to hide, I have great feedback on this site both as a buyer and seller - and yet the trolls are out calling me a cock, prick, habitual liar, untrustworthy cunt, lol on the basis of a strange sellers behaviour ?? Isn’t the internet brilliant 

FYI, there are at least a couple of well known retailers, that when presented with a name/address/ukara number, will willingly confirm whether its active & name & the address is correct. 

They do so in the knowledge that while they have no financial gain from doing so, they're helping to ensure that even rifs sold privately go to someone who has demonstrated their entitlement to posses them. 

For that they should be commended, while we don't all agree with the vcra & how it's applied, it's all we have so no one can be criticised for trying to adhere to it, even if decide to withdraw from a sale because theyre being overly cautious or unsure of the legality, it with the right intentions. 

PS, yep it is based on a one sided story, but 12 messages to establish name/address/ukara sounds like hard work, & then you allegedly spit your dummy out about gdpr within a system that you signed up for, & your reluctance for the op to check its validity.......... 

Doesn't come across as fishy at all lol?, hence the reactions of most peeps here, myself included. 

It is still the school holidays after all?

And that’s where the inaccuracy lies- the UKARA, name and postcode were provided along with a plethora of other information allowing  seller to verify my player status in the second, maybe 3rd message- not 12th and the GDPR comments were only

made when having provided all this information still no sale was happening and I became suspicious of the sellers motivation to gather my details.

Surely the safe way if you are risk averse - is to Agree a deal, accept payment- PayPal verifies name and address (first safe way of checking it confirms identity and that the buyer is over 18) armed with the already provided UKara - do your due dilligence, if that’s the defence type

you want to accept (again no criticism of the well meaning intentions) if not happy refund the payment - explain why and remain polite and reasonable !  
 

one phone call made by the seller after 3rd message - verified my Ukara with my site - if my PayPal payment details didn’t match, then he could have refunded and said sorry something not right no sale ?, it’s not rocket science I don’t think, I’ve been doing it that way for 12 years
 

 

[Cannonfodder]

It went quite well - it answered the questions I didn’t know the answered too 

Iirc you didn't ask,  just stated a load of nonsense about the ukara database and GDPR and was quickly shown to be as truthful as a MP's pre election promises 

Also,  even if I was to believe your employment claims, being ex plod, working for a law firm or a site marshal doesn't mean you get special treatment

It went quite well - it answered the questions I didn’t know the answered too 

Iirc you didn't ask,  just stated a load of nonsense about the ukara database and GDPR and was quickly shown to be as truthful as a MP's pre election promises 

Also,  even if I was to believe your employment claims, being ex plod, working for a law firm or a site marshal doesn't mean you get special treatment

 

[1967PF44]

Iirc you didn't ask,  just stated a load of nonsense about the ukara database and GDPR and was quickly shown to be as truthful as a MP's pre election promises 

Also,  even if I was to believe your employment claims, being ex plod, working for a law firm or a site marshal doesn't mean you get special treatment

Iirc you didn't ask,  just stated a load of nonsense about the ukara database and GDPR and was quickly shown to be as truthful as a MP's pre election promises 

Also,  even if I was to believe your employment claims, being ex plod, working for a law firm or a site marshal doesn't mean you get special treatment

For clarity - I’ve never asked for special treatment, never claimed to work for a law firm

 

[Cannonfodder]

The “personal information” that is protected by law is not my name, postcode or Ukara No, but it is my status - active, inactive or void (I think is the third term)  the information commissioner has previously confirmed in a case that this is “personal information” and went beyond that by saying it’s also personally sensitive.

Got a link for that? 

 

[1967PF44]

Got a link for that? 

No…but Im not sure what link you would be looking for ??  
 

you had me curious as well- I revisited

my UKARA topic post….it’s full

of “questions” lol - all of which were answered unless you were referring to a different post 

 

[Cannonfodder]

For clarity - I’ve never asked for special treatment, never claimed to work for a law firm

You claimed to be a paralegal. Who do they work for if not law firms? 

Mentioning those things when unnecessary implies that, even if it's not directly said

I asked for a link to where, when and what case the information commissioner said that. Or are we supposed to just take your word for it? 

 

[1967PF44]

Actually paralegals work for lots of organisations 

and the mention of that was after all the Ukara info had been supplied and I was trying to help explain why I was so familiar with the law, not trying to gain any favours or special treatment (it’s all in the context- often lost on the interweb- particularly in forums

and groups like It seems) 

I actually don’t care if you believe me, but a quick call to the very helpful ICO would verify my claim if you are that interested. I don’t actually think I can link the written information 

however in general terms and it’s easy to

find on the ICO website - membership status of any club, organisation, professional body 

or Union is personally sensitive information.  

 

[Cannonfodder]

So you're unable to provide evidence to back up your claim and expect us to all take your word for it

 

[Tackle]

I knew someone who claimed to be a solicitor, when pushed he then downgraded it to "well actually I'm a paralegal", bit more digging & it transpired he was only a conveyancer, not a very good one at that lol. 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

without the context of the actual messages [and i'm not suggesting that should be posted], from the external view it seems to be a case of he said/she said.

sounds to me like both sides shoulda just left this in the pm chain, there's always gonna be another buyer, and there's always gonna be someone else selling the shiny.

 

[1967PF44]

So you're unable to provide evidence to back up your claim and expect us to all take your word for it

Don’t expect anyone to take my word for it, do your own research, the law is clear and readily available online 

I knew someone who claimed to be a solicitor, when pushed he then downgraded it to "well actually I'm a paralegal", bit more digging & it transpired he was only a conveyancer, not a very good one at that lol. 

Plenty in the world like that, but I’m easy to find online and my qualifications are genuine, lol 

without the context of the actual messages [and i'm not suggesting that should be posted], from the external view it seems to be a case of he said/she said.

sounds to me like both sides shoulda just left this in the pm chain, there's always gonna be another buyer, and there's always gonna be someone else selling the shiny.

The whole situation discussed here is incredibly out of context - I agree, in fact I have already directly apologised for any misunderstanding that was generated by any reply I made in the pms discussing  the sale - the simple facts are I just wanted to buy the guys gun, in the same way that  I have brought many over the last 10/12 years without drama. Lol.  The time delay between reading messages and responding didn’t help, and messages  not being sent right away due to piss poor Scottish internet where I was seems to have added to the confusion. Add that to a genuine question being taken the wrong way (typical of the Internet forums) and sparking a overly sensitive reaction. Before you know it a highly rated seller/buyer is being called an “untrustworthy cunt”  by some troll that hasn’t taken time to hear the whole story (again common on the forums it seems)