Blind Firing.

[Lozart]

Personally I don't think that hip firing is blind firing AS LONG AS YOU'RE LOOKING WHERE YOU'RE FIRING.

Sitting in a bush waving your gun over your head saying it's ok because you can see through the branches? Nah, it's a dick move. Think about it, if you're holding your gun at your side with nothing between your eye line and the line of fire then yes, it's inaccurate but you're aware of everything between you and the target. If you're waving your gun over your head to clear the branches of a bush then you have no idea where that barrel is actually pointing when you start firing which is the basic definition of blind firing. The bigger issue is that if you allow someone to do that then it's a small step to full on, poking your gun round a solid corner blind firing which I hope we can all agree is stupid and dangerous (regardless of whether or not people do it "in real life").

The other point is that all of this is largely moot because the site sets its own rules. If you disagree with the rules then don't play there, if they say you're blind firing by shooting from the hip then it's irrelevant what you think, it's their site, their rules.

 

[Rogerborg]

Digression is a sport unto itself.

We've raised it to an artform here.  

Blind firing is not being able to see between the end of your barrel and the point of aim.  To do otherwise is indirect fire.

Presenting a target is just that.  

Fair point, and they can be presented separately.  I'm sure we've all seen the difference between rambling digression briefings and someone who really knows what they're doing rattling through one clearly and concisely.

This gets us back to the question of why sites don't just put the critical rules on a board, stick it up at the game zone entry, and say "Read that before you go out there, feel free to ask questions, don't plead ignorance."

 

[BigStew]

We've raised it to an artform here.  

Fair point, and they can be presented separately.  I'm sure we've all seen the difference between rambling digression briefings and someone who really knows what they're doing rattling through one clearly and concisely.

This gets us back to the question of why sites don't just put the critical rules on a board, stick it up at the game zone entry, and say "Read that before you go out there, feel free to ask questions, don't plead ignorance."

Most likely answer they would get vandalised with a couple of days being put up at any wood land site. Any on line booking system should have terms and conditions which include site rules but let's be honest about that no one reads them. Only way to get rules to be inforced is to have a Marshall team that knows the rules and are out in game enforcing them. If you are ever at section 8 you will occasionally hear my sweet voice bellowing the rules to everyone in game if I find some one breaking them.

 

[Rogerborg]

Only way to get rules to be inforced is to have a Marshall team that knows the rules and are out in game enforcing them.

Wouldn't it be nice though to not hear "Oh, nobody told me that", or "That wasn't covered in the briefing" ?

There's another very good reason to have a tangible rules-board.  When a lad got blinded at Absolute Airsoft when his chum shot him in the eye in the safe zone with a BB still in the hop, the point of contention was that "they were not told that unfired pellets had to be cleared from guns before they were brought into the safe zone".

 

[BigStew]

Wouldn't it be nice though to not hear "Oh, nobody told me that", or "That wasn't covered in the briefing" ?

There's another very good reason to have a tangible rules-board.  When a lad got blinded at Absolute Airsoft when his chum shot him in the eye in the safe zone with a BB still in the hop, the point of contention was that "they were not told that unfired pellets had to be cleared from guns before they were brought into the safe zone".

Yep it would be nice. except my case I know it was said in the brief they just didn't listen. 

 

[Rogerborg]

Yep it would be nice. except my case I know it was said in the brief they just didn't listen. 

Or someone talked over it, or the marshal got distracted and missed that one point on that one day, or they've got hearing problems - something I've never heard mentioned at any brief, anywhere, ever (maybe it wasn't said loud enough).

To be clear, I fully agree that all rules are only meaningful if enforced on the field.

However, we live in a society that's both litigious (boo) and inclusive (yay), and "I'm sure I said..." won't satisfy either of those.

 

[Nick G]

Soooo what do we call it when some idiot sticks his head round a corner just as you pull the trigger ? I did that at a pistols and shotties game a couple of years ago. Peaked round a building just as a guy from the other team pulled the trigger, tri shot to the face at about 3 feet ? Totally not his fault, he was aiming down the barrel at someone in another building . Blind peaking ? ??

 

[Tommikka]

Soooo what do we call it when some idiot sticks his head round a corner just as you pull the trigger

?

An accident 

 

[Nick G]

An accident 

Oh totally. The guy that shot me is a mate anyway and as I said he was doing everythig right . Just my bad timing  , serves me right for being a numpty and not peaking whilst on a knee !

 

[Tommikka]

Soooo what do we call it when some idiot sticks his head round a corner just as you pull the trigger ? I did that at a pistols and shotties game a couple of years ago. Peaked round a building just as a guy from the other team pulled the trigger, tri shot to the face at about 3 feet ? Totally not his fault, he was aiming down the barrel at someone in another building . Blind peaking ? ??

I ran up to a building once, no noise from inside so I stuck my head in the window 

At the same moment that a barrel poked out of the window

(Just for info - I was carrying a radio with vox enabled)

I exclaimed, jumped backwards and took a shot to the chest 

As I appeared in the safe zone, and told my team mate (with his handset on the bench) what had just happened ….. everyone present let’s me know “we heard”

Oh totally. The guy that shot me is a mate anyway and as I said he was doing everythig right . Just my bad timing  , serves me right for being a numpty and not peaking whilst on a knee !

You replied to my reply too quick

i was hoping the above tale would merge

Another accident tale takes place on camera on our 2nd ever event at approx 0:35:

The gunman had in fact been an ‘almost original’ of the team when forming in 2007/2008 before dropping out of the game for life things 

He played that game in 2010, and we ‘met again’ later that year when Oblivion opened (which became Ironsight)

Its thanks to finally getting him on board that enabled his tech skills to put our game ideas into practice 

 

[Nick G]

Ouch ! but we've all done it , and it's easily done

Our local site always mentions blind firing in the safety brief but Shooting from the hip is ok as long as you have a clear sight of your target. The marshalls are pretty good at enforcing it too. 

Get shot in the face 'cos of your own idiocy and everyone will quite rightly take the piss ?

 

[BigStew]

Soooo what do we call it when some idiot sticks his head round a corner just as you pull the trigger ? I did that at a pistols and shotties game a couple of years ago. Peaked round a building just as a guy from the other team pulled the trigger, tri shot to the face at about 3 feet ? Totally not his fault, he was aiming down the barrel at someone in another building . Blind peaking ? ??

Total an accident unless the shooter was using the weapon in a way that would obscure their peripheral vision.

 

[Nick G]

Total an accident unless the shooter was using the weapon in a way that would obscure their peripheral vision.

Completely accidental and my fault not his.

I was just hoping to get the term 'Blind Peaking'  into common ussage ?

 

[Tommikka]

Completely accidental and my fault not his.

I was just hoping to get the term 'Blind Peaking'  into common ussage ?

Are you a peakey blindee?

 

[Nick G]

Are you a peakey blindee?

I rather think I might be ! ?

 

[Druid799]

Are you a peakey blindee?

You will be if you keep doing it ! “Now where’d I leave my white stick ?” ?

Most sites I’ve been too have said you need to be sighting down the gun so you can see what your shooting at , anything else could be classed as blind firing .

Me personally I’ve always defined ‘blind firing’ as firing your gun either under/over or through any type of cover where you can’t see what your actually shooting at and you are unable to tell what or who is in front of you , but with the caveat there’s always going to be occasions where part of you view is obscured , firing out of a window(player pops up in front of you) , around a corner(player walks in to your line of fire) , etc etc so a player could still take a blast at close range from you but it was an unavoidable accident nothing else .

I had the ‘hip firing’ scenario happen a few yrs ago , was in a sort of bunker complex I hear talking in the next room to me , recognised one of the voices as belonging to a right nobber on the other team so moved up to the corner of the two sections stepped out and shot him and two others in the back as they thought their team had secured the whole complex (they hadn’t ! ?) who all then promptly started screaming blue murder about blind firing as I shot the three of them from the hip ! I laughed and said “grow up it was only one shot each !” At that site it was single shot only inside hardcover/buildings/bunkers and walked off . Only for him to later turn up at my table in the safezone with a marshal(who just so happened to be a friend of his) who immediately starts shouting at me for ‘blind firing’ at this point I said rather forcefully shouted back at him with “do NOT shout at me get the head marshal now !” he arrives , both sides of the argument given , junior marshal given severe bollocking for speaking to me like that . The general consensus was yes it could be described as blind firing in the widest sense possible but really you want to kick up a fuss over a single shot to the center of your plate carrier ?

 

[AlphaBear]

My site rule is simple.... if you can't see what you're shooting at.... it's blind firing... You have to be looking down the barrel...  Period

 

[rj1986]

Most site I've played at have used the front sight + rear sight + target rule, added with the A4 paper size rule, and no opening or closing windows.

I played a site last year where i was crouched behind a small wall. A walk on then started poking his gun round the side and spraying (luckily nowhere near my general direction as i was tucked in). Only thing i could do was grab the barrel and pull the gun away. When he then came round the corner to find out what happened he had no idea i was there and walked into a knife kill

 

[Impulse]

My local site classes both hip firing and dual wielding as blind fire, but side-sighting is fine. It's one of the few rules I very much disagree with, but I've given my feedback and it's still the way it is so I'm not going to push it any further. I agree hip firing is bad and I agree with their ruling of no key-holing (because it's basically just situational blind firing), but dual wielding and hip firing never came across as blind firing to me...

To me it feels stupid. Hip firing and dual wielding you can very much see where you're shooting, arguably better than you can when you side-sight, since side-sighting means you can't see the other side of your gun. Yes, dual wielding you can shoot in both directions which would be blind firing as you can't look directly to both the left and right at the same time, but you can also fire a single gun to the right without looking so that's just blind firing and has nothing to do with dual wielding. Hip firing as well, some support guns aren't designed to be shouldered; as has been pointed out, are you going to make me shoulder a minigun? I think part of it is that people get mad about support gunners playing support gun properly. I've got a friend who has had multiple complaints against him because he suppresses an area and then people stick their heads out into the suppression to catch a few BBs to the face. Fires in bursts too, so he's doing nothing wrong, but people get mad; I think him moving up and hip firing is part of why hip firing got banned.

Oh yeah, I also got properly blind fired last game day when I decided to not be a sniper for once. Someone on my team said "behind you!" and I turned to see an arm and the barrel of a rifle sticking around the corner. Fortunately the guy must've been shooting blanks or hadn't wound his high cap or something because I didn't feel anything and just pushed around and put two BBs into his leg.

 

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

I didn't feel anything and just pushed around and put two BBs into his leg.

Well played!

I play support gun a lot.  Shouldering it like a rifle would allow you to get around ammo limits and semi auto only rules.  At least as far as games with a lot of structure/milsims/filmsims etc.  No use having different roles if people chuck plastic M249s around as though they are M4s.