What would you recommend as a first gun? Budget around £100

[bitofanidiot42]

Hi lads, I’ve been looking for a while, I understand that a sniper is discouraged but I like the Well Mb03.

I also have looked at the JG T3’s. I’d rather not an M4 as I want to be a bit “original”.

Budget around £100, spit some stuff at me!

(also don’t know if this the right place to post this!)

 

[EDcase]

As you may imagine, this has been asked a few times already.  Do a few searches and read everything that comes up.

You'll need to spends a bit more than £100 for a decent pew but between £120-150 should be do-able.  (Remember to budget an extra £60 at least for eye pro, better batteries and charger, spare mags, BBs etc.)

Nothing wrong with stating as a sniper and the WELL shooters are quite good generally.  The problem is peoples expectations of how accurate and deadly they are.  (hint: You need to tweak a LOT which often involves quite a bit of money to get decent range and accuracy)

The JG T3's have a good reputation but haven't tried one myself.  Looks like a good option for DMR role.  (Again tho: Don't expect it to have much more range out of the box than a standard AEG)

 

[Impulse]

Hi lads, I’ve been looking for a while, I understand that a sniper is discouraged but I like the Well Mb03.

I also have looked at the JG T3’s. I’d rather not an M4 as I want to be a bit “original”.

Budget around £100, spit some stuff at me!

(also don’t know if this the right place to post this!)

A Well MB-01 was my first gun about 16 years ago back when they were called the Warrior L96 and I had a lot of fun with it, however I will echo the "starting with a sniper rifle is a bad idea" sentiment. It worked out for me because aesthetically I love bolt action guns and was interested in the scout sniper role from the get go (I play support classes in video games, so sitting totally still and just relaying enemy movements to my team via radio is my jam), plus we didn't have the techno-wizardry of modern hop rubbers back then, but with a stock sniper rifle these days you'll get outranged by AEGs with a simple hop rubber change. Hop up is king and extra power means a lot less than it used to, plus you'll have a 30m MED to contend with. I'm not saying "don't do it" but I am definitely saying "consider it carefully". Sniping is a very different way of playing and you can have very, very slow days. Even with hundreds of pounds invested into a sniper rifle build, using the heaviest BBs possible, your shots will still fly off in a breeze or will be foiled by a stray leaf or twig being in the way of the shot that sends it wildly off course.

If I was going to recommend a good starter gun for that price, I'm going to point at Cyma AKs and mp5s because they're great. The polymer Cyma AKs are pretty damn good for the price, but they probably won't be a go-to gun forever as you'll soon want something metal. I'd save up a little more than £100, as you want to get good eye protection, some boots with ankle support, better batteries and a good charger. £100 will cover a polymer Cyma AK and nothing else, though it does come with a cheapo NiMH battery and charger, as well as a high-cap mag so you can just pick it up and go. I don't care what other people say, the cheapo NiMH battery will work and I still use the one that came with my Cyma mp5k and it's fine, but like the gun being plastic, you probably don't want to use the cheapo battery forever.

 

[bitofanidiot42]

Thanks for nudging me in the right direction, people often say I’m the sort of person to get stuck in the action. Probably getting a FAL, AK or MP5.

 

[DestrO]

get yourself a cyma ak or mp5. theyre very good for the money

 

[bitofanidiot42]

Ok, my takeaway is that I should get a good aeg that will last, and if I want to try sniping, get a well and see if it’s my cuppa tea.

 

[Rogerborg]

Eh.  Any metal gearboxed CYMAs will last just fine, they're tough internally.  It's the externals that don't feel so great.  You can play with a cheap AEG, and anything that's currently in stock at Patrol Base will work.

https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/airsoft-assault-rifles-all?*inst=y

Just be aware that the plastic on the CYMA M4s in particular is very toyish, although the BBs won't care.  The Lancer Tacticals offer a lot of features for the money, and I think they've sorted their quality control issues.

Sniping is definitely a case of try-before-committing, and you can either go really cheap to try, buy a VSR compatible platform with a plan to upgrade, or budget £300+ out of the box.  We covered the alternatives in a recent thread.

 

[Floperator]

As said in another thread, doing the sniper/dmr thing is more a state of mind than about the equipment you use (hop up has more effect on range than raw power), and staying still is the most effective camouflage.

I would definitely start with a cyma AK or MP5 and see how you get on, this will at least give you the option of jumping balls-first into the action if you want.

Another factor is that many sites won't let you use a sniper rifle or DMR with Minimum Engagement Distance unless you also have a pistol or other sidearm, so straight away you're looking at buying two guns and not one.

 

[Rogerborg]

Another factor is that many sites won't let you use a sniper rifle or DMR with Minimum Engagement Distance unless you also have a pistol or other sidearm, so straight away you're looking at buying two guns and not one

True in principle. In practice, is there a minimum required standard of functionality?  For most players, most of the time, a pistol is largely a prop and you'd be as well hanging a springer off your hip in woodland.

Or... OP has a broken plastic "AEP", and if he dropped that in a holster, are they going to know?  And is it really an issue, as long as you respect your MED, fall back, or in extremis just call yourself out?

Prompted by using my MP5K on Sunday, taking a hit on that, shouting "gun hit", then switching to my Tac-41.  At that point, I didn't have a (usable) secondary.  Problem? ?

 

[Floperator]

True in principle. In practice, is there a minimum required standard of functionality?  For most players, most of the time, a pistol is largely a prop and you'd be as well hanging a springer off your hip in woodland.

Or... OP has a broken plastic "AEP", and if he dropped that in a holster, are they going to know?  And is it really an issue, as long as you respect your MED, fall back, or in extremis just call yourself out?

I mean as a sniper you're already limiting yourself as to what and how you can play, but without a *functional* sidearm or secondary you might miss out on whole game modes. Not to mention that if your main gun starts getting squiffy it will flat out ruin your whole day. For me a sidearm is genuinely a backup gun and not a prop; I've used a pistol in every game day so far.

In the last game mode on sunday, 'Sniper ambush', one hedge monster got about 20 kills in 10 minutes with his mk23. Very much not a prop.

And woodland can get quite dense at this time of year - at Reforger there are whole areas that two months ago could have been locked down by a couple of snipers (e.g coming down to the village from the right hand ridge, if you're familiar with the site) but now can be easily infiltrated, and those 30m arcs of fire are getting harder to find.

Prompted by using my MP5K on Sunday, taking a hit on that, shouting "gun hit", then switching to my Tac-41.  At that point, I didn't have a (usable) secondary.  Problem? ?

I think according to the letter and spirit of the (site-dependent) rules you should probably take the hit and go respawn at that point. Let's face it, in the heat of the moment you're much more likely to shoot someone with the TAC at sub 30m if you don't have any other weapon options.

 

[Rogerborg]

I mean as a sniper you're already limiting yourself as to what and how you can play, but without a *functional* sidearm or secondary you might miss out on whole game modes.

Oh, sure, that's why I run an MP5K with ~700 rounds rather than a pistol, and use that as much as the sniper.  But I've seen other snipers and DMR players on site without a functional secondary, and without the marshals being that fussed.  I'm just bearing in mind that OP is on a budget, and I wouldn't want to put him off by raising the minimum cost of playing.

In the last game mode on sunday, 'Sniper ambush', one hedge monster got about 20 kills in 10 minutes with his mk23. Very much not a prop.

Would that be a Mk23 with a barrel extension shooting at 1.4J or more?  Got to be a strong contender for the most abused "lol it's just a pistol mate, it doesn't need a MED" gun out there.

I think according to the letter and spirit of the (site-dependent) rules you should probably take the hit and go respawn at that point. Let's face it, in the heat of the moment you're much more likely to shoot someone with the TAC at sub 30m if you don't have any other weapon options.

Maybe. But having a secondary on my hip isn't actually what stops me from shooting the Tac-41 inside its MED.  I'd certainly encourage snipers to carry a decent secondary, but would stress that the important thing is to respect your MED and be prepared to fall back or just surrender if cornered.

The other option is as suggested in the referenced "wut sniper?" thread above: power a cheap bolt action down to < 1.14J and use it without a MED.  Easier to pull, less stress on the components, and it'll still give you a feel for the play style.  I'm pondering that for my currently non-functional MB-03 and even using it in very-CQB for a Hard Mode giggle.

 

[Floperator]

It does really depend on your local site.

Some won't allow you to run a sniper/DMR without a secondary, some aren't fussed. As for the other suggestion about running a bolty at sub-1.14j, our own Gamble was intending to play this way on sunday with his Lee Enfield, only to be told that he still had to keep outside the MED because the marshals didn't want the hassle of players coming up to them all day complaining about getting point blanked with a "sniper rifle".

Saw a kid get a nasty shock at Airsoft Plantation because they have a rule that you have to be able to fire single shots, and he had one of those 'double tap' triggers. His day ended before it started.

I think the moral of the story is that you really need to check with the sites you are playing at before running anything a bit unconventional, or assuming that because one site permits it that another does too.

Don't mean to put the OP off altogether, I'm just not convinced that, gameplay issues aside, a sniper rifle is necessarily a good starter or 'budget' setup compared to a Cyma AK.

 

[Rogerborg]

As for the other suggestion about running a bolty at sub-1.14j, our own Gamble was intending to play this way on sunday with his Lee Enfield, only to be told that he still had to keep outside the MED because the marshals didn't want the hassle of players coming up to them all day complaining about getting point blanked with a "sniper rifle"

Wow, that's harsh, and sad that they were more concerned about appearances and attitudes rather than reality.  See previous kvetching about folk point-blanking with DMR-energy pistols without an eyebrow being raised.

Were they equally as bovvered about DMR players spamming at 1.5-1.8J as fast as they could finger-blast the trigger, I wonder?

Don't mean to put the OP off altogether, I'm just not convinced that, gameplay issues aside, a sniper rifle is necessarily a good starter or 'budget' setup compared to a Cyma AK.

I actually completely agree with this, and would always suggest getting one usable AEG first, playing with that, then taking it from there.

And there's no reason - other than marshals' opinions about appearances - that you couldn't run (e.g.) a light plastic CYMA and a bolt action rifle.  Treat the AEG as the primary, and the bolt action as a bit of situational fun.

 

[bitofanidiot42]

Eh.  Any metal gearboxed CYMAs will last just fine, they're tough internally.  It's the externals that don't feel so great.  You can play with a cheap AEG, and anything that's currently in stock at Patrol Base will work.

https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/airsoft-assault-rifles-all?*inst=y

Just be aware that the plastic on the CYMA M4s in particular is very toyish, although the BBs won't care.  The Lancer Tacticals offer a lot of features for the money, and I think they've sorted their quality control issues.

Sniping is definitely a case of try-before-committing, and you can either go really cheap to try, buy a VSR compatible platform with a plan to upgrade, or budget £300+ out of the box.  We covered the alternatives in a recent thread.

Ok, in regards to my *cough cough* AEP, I’ve got a proper pistol now so that doesn’t matter. *

I’ve read this read a while back and it was quite interesting, motivating me to not make the “fatal” decision (ok, don’t quote me on that, I know, it kinda depends and stuff) of buying a cheap sniper. 

Roger, how did your Well mb03 break? I’m interested to see how it happened but I bet the high power spring kills the plastic internals.

*I’ve heard that a pistol as a first gun is bad but it’s too late, not sending it back!

Also, I know a CYMA might last longer but I prefer the look and (how it’s supposed to) feel of the JG T3K1. Finally, you’d be glad to hear I got a refund on that piss-tol today.

 

[Floperator]

I mean I would have dealt with it by say at the morning briefing, "btw guys, this dude is running a sub-350 bolt action, don't come and cry to us if he shoots you at close range", but then I don't have to manage 60-odd players each with different gear and I can see the logic in not making exceptions for every quirky setup that comes along.

There is a rule about not rapid firing DMRs, and so far I haven't seen anyone taking the piss in that regard.

Oddly, though there is officially a 360 fps limit (with 0.20g) for AEGs and pistols, in practice they don't chrono pistols unless they are CO2. Fwiw I asked to chrono my ASG mk23 with and without 'silencer' just for my own peace of mind (because who wants to be that guy?), and was well under the limit. 

Plantation had no morning chrono at all, but there were chronos available and they did do spot checks through the day. That said I don't know how many they did, just that they checked me!

I suppose it would be too much to ask for every site to have the same rules and enforce them similarly, but imo some of the 'range safety' aspects at least need to be more unified and up to a certain standard. Always thought it was a bit perfunctory how everyone gets the safezone safety briefing *after* they've been milling around the safezone for half an hour...You should get that on your way in the door, and mandatory chrono for everything with site-supplied BBs (The first site I went to did this).

I was pretty horrified to read in another thread about a site where people were dry firing in the safezone, this definitely needs to stop.

(So sorry to derail your thread OP)

 

[bitofanidiot42]

I mean I would have dealt with it by say at the morning briefing, "btw guys, this dude is running a sub-350 bolt action, don't come and cry to us if he shoots you at close range", but then I don't have to manage 60-odd players each with different gear and I can see the logic in not making exceptions for every quirky setup that comes along.

There is a rule about not rapid firing DMRs, and so far I haven't seen anyone taking the piss in that regard.

Oddly, though there is officially a 360 fps limit (with 0.20g) for AEGs and pistols, in practice they don't chrono pistols unless they are CO2. Fwiw I asked to chrono my ASG mk23 with and without 'silencer' just for my own peace of mind (because who wants to be that guy?), and was well under the limit. 

Plantation had no morning chrono at all, but there were chronos available and they did do spot checks through the day. That said I don't know how many they did, just that they checked me!

I suppose it would be too much to ask for every site to have the same rules and enforce them similarly, but imo some of the 'range safety' aspects at least need to be more unified and up to a certain standard. Always thought it was a bit perfunctory how everyone gets the safezone safety briefing *after* they've been milling around the safezone for half an hour...You should get that on your way in the door, and mandatory chrono for everything with site-supplied BBs (The first site I went to did this).

I was pretty horrified to read in another thread about a site where people were dry firing in the safezone, this definitely needs to stop.

(So sorry to derail your thread OP)

Floperator, that’s fine, it’s an interesting topic, at my field it’s 350 for anything but dmr’s and bolt actions, 400, for dmr and 500 for a sniper. They won’t let you dryfire anywhere as soon as the session officially stars and apparently you have to leave 2 seconds before you shoot again with a sniper but they didn’t enforce that one last time.

It could be said, though, that guns “too powerful” still can’t harm you and won’t give the user much advantage except pissing people off but it’s nice to have a fair set of rules.

 

[Shamal]

It could be said, though, that guns “too powerful” still can’t harm you

Umm I think you will find that they fuckin' well can! ?

Regards 

 

[bitofanidiot42]

Umm I think you will find that they fuckin' well can! ?

Regards 

Hurt? Fuck yeah! Damage your body? To a minimal extent, e.g. bruises and redness unless it’s like 900 fps which is probably classed as a firearm

 

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

I mean I would have dealt with it by say at the morning briefing, "btw guys, this dude is running a sub-350 bolt action, don't come and cry to us if he shoots you at close range", but then I don't have to manage 60-odd players each with different gear and I can see the logic in not making exceptions for every quirky setup that comes along.

At Gunman briefings, sub-350 bolt action users have to identify themselves to everyone.   I've never had or seen a problem there.

 

[Rogerborg]

Roger, how did your Well mb03 break? I’m interested to see how it happened but I bet the high power spring kills the plastic internals.

The stock piston is indeed plastic, but I'd already replaced the piston, spring guide with metal versions along with the spring as a "power up" kit.  Ostensibly good for "500fps" (2.32J), I actually saw 3.3J out of it.  Oops, that spring got cut down sharpish.

What eventually went wasn't the stock 45-degree trigger sear as expected, but the spring guide stopper. It wallered out its hole and went wobbly.  Now the spring guide kicks to one side when pulling the bolt, and the bolt locks back without going forward again.  I've tried shimming out the stopper and might revisit it just as a project, but the core problem is the quality of monkey-metal on any cheap (and some expensive) airsoft toys.  This is why you'd want to budget £100 (!) for a 90-degree trigger box on any VSR, plus the extra cost for a 90 degree piston.

I mean, you can run it until it breaks, but I reckon they will all break one way or another.

The Action Army AAC T11 is the cheapest sniper that I'm aware of that has a 90-degree trigger as standard that might hold up OK.

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