What the Police are taught...

[Tommikka]

Yep this question has been cleared up regarding the legalities and how it came about. My questions weren't about the Airsoft rifs but the lead or steel bb 'firearms'. (airsoft forum I know sorry). And about how police officers could interpret that sentence and therefore act upon it - which is unanswerable and I am not going to try to find out! ?

There’s a PC in the Southampton area who might like to help you with that enquiry, going by the last time he handled a ‘firearm’ taking it out of a deceased’s property by his fingertip in front of all the neighbours, leaving an unauthorized person to go through drawers, missing the blood stained divers knife, the fact that there were two holsters on the belt, and the assorted rifles - one behind the door

However following this handling of a filmakers blank firing pistol,  missing air rifles , the bollocks he spouted, and some questions being asked by the nok to the chief constables and firearms officers - maybe he won’t be touching any more ever again  

 

[Rogerborg]

"imitation firearms" which by legal definition are "not firearms".

Why can't the same item be both, for the purposes of different legislation?

A pedal cycle is a pedal cycle, a vehicle, and a carriage, depending on what you're being prosecuted with.

 

[1st commando]

Why can't the same item be both, for the purposes of different legislation?

A pedal cycle is a pedal cycle, a vehicle, and a carriage, depending on what you're being prosecuted with.

I think a lot of that is down to the way the laws on bicycles have been layered over the years (like a lot of our laws) . Luckily the "RIF" definition is very recent and definitive since the addition of the PCA and VCRA .

I know what you mean though 

 

[Albiscuit]

Thanks for posting, and I understand the questions some people are asking but for 98% of Airsofters it is generally not an issue, same with airgun users.

Use these things sensibly, in private or on dedicated land (skirmish site, range etc) and there should be no issue.  Act like a prick and take them out into public or to the park or wave them around the local estate then you have an issue and the ambiguous wording of the law will matter!!

90% of the questions/topics on here regarding the law can be avoided with a little common sense and investigation.  If your gifted it, your cousin buys it for you, you paint a two tone etc you just have to think 'who will know' ? technically yes in a lot of instances the actual wording of the law is likely to be broken but the intent is not to break the law, rather than to be able to skirmish, but again, who is to know? under what circumstances are these things checked? they are not! But I know ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law as they say.... Hell half the time we cant agree on the answer to a poster as we all interpret it differently! 

But its almost a philosophical question. If nobody knows you have broken the law, is it broken?

Like if the pope shits in the woods and a tree falls down, did the pope make any noise? or something like that   

Still a useful thread to have though, im not knocking it. Just having a rant whilst the kettle boils   

 

[Prisce]

Still a useful thread to have though, im not knocking it. Just having a rant whilst the kettle boils

That’s exactly what it’s for though. 

Pre-warned is Pre-armed so to speak. 

I’d rather everyone disagreed with me and posted what they know to be true, so others on the future can find it, rather than everyone ignore it. That’s the main purpose of the forum!

 

[hitmanNo2]

 

[Tommikka]

A key point with the police handbook is that it is a general guide, there may be (and are) inconsistencies and errors.

But a police officer is not a judge, they can make the wrong decision and confiscate items, arrest or detain you etc, but that does not mean a prosecution will happen or you won’t get your items back.

Why can't the same item be both, for the purposes of different legislation?

A pedal cycle is a pedal cycle, a vehicle, and a carriage, depending on what you're being prosecuted with.

Things can and do fall into different definitions in different parts of legislation.

 But with RIFs, IFs and firearms they are distinct in their definitions in the VCRA and firearms legislation.

Many airguns, blank firers etc are imitations of ‘proper firearms’ in the English definition, but under the VCRA imitations definition are not IFs nor RIFs,  and do fit to ‘firearms’ definitions.

We’ve covered those in other threads

 

[Rogerborg]

We’ve covered those in other threads

We certainly have, and we still have a principled disagreement on how the interpretations could be applied.

However, that's an argument for the CPS or Fiscal to make, and for a judge or jury to decide.

 

[Shizbazki]

That looks like a Blackstones Book.

I should point out that during the 6 months of training at Hendon, not one subject covered firearms, we did tonnes on the different Sections of the Theft Act 1968 but never did we once touch on the subject of firearms.

It was only a year out of Hendon (so after 18months service) did i go back for my 2 out of 3 continuation training courses that we did anything on firearms, even then it was one afternoon about the subject.

Funniest part was at that time (around early 2011) I was part of the Air Training Corps as a member of staff at my local squadron (12F Walthamstow and Leyton) and was one of the shooting leads on the squadron.

I ended up teaching that section to the rest of the class as even the person leading the course (a Sergeant) knew little to nothing about firearms, types of firearms, the difference between rifled, smooth bore, bolt action, semi automatic, burst fire etc.

Getting into airsoft afterwards has led me to reading up about the different sections of firearms laws especially centred around Airsoft. So as luck would have it when one day i call came out to some kid using his Airsoft gun in his back yard came out i took it, it was his lucky day in that of all the officers to turn up to him it was me and i was able to significantly down play the whole thing so his guns didnt get seized. He wasn't breaking any laws, kept BBs well in his garden, had a decent backstop to prevent ricochets and i was very confident his guns were under FPS limits as all he was doing was chronoing.

Most people don't realise but most officers only ever have a working knowledge of most laws, the nitty gritty not so much so often it boils down to common sense approach.

It much the same way that people say their "House got robbed", this is a laymans terms of understanding. In the nitty gritty no house can ever be robbed. Period!