What the Police are taught...

[Prisce]

Thought this might be handy.

Both these pictures are taken from the police student handbook. 

It appears that that some of what they are taught is different to what we have interpreted. (Mainly gifting of a RIF, recipient must be at least 17....)

View attachment 42139

View attachment 42138

 

[Vulpiness]

we should get UKARA to write to them and fact check that.

 

[clumpyedge]

That last couple of lines had me in stitches ?

 

[Prisce]

I know. I thought it was hilarious. If that’s what cops are taught, no wonder things are in the state they are right now.

 

[Resistor170]

This is regarding the 'bb guns'  not airsoft section. But maybe anyone can clear this up for me. 

View attachment 42220

Does this mean my Dan wesson 715 pellet gun is classed as prohibited? That's how it reads to me but surely it's not. Maybe 18.8 clears it up... 

Edit: if a police officer read his handbook and then examined the gun, would he not class it as prohibited? 

 

[Prisce]

This is regarding the 'bb guns'  not airsoft section. But maybe anyone can clear this up for me. 

View attachment 42220

Does this mean my Dan wesson 715 pellet gun is classed as prohibited? That's how it reads to me but surely it's not. Maybe 18.8 clears it up... 

Edit: if a police officer read his handbook and then examined the gun, would he not class it as prohibited? 

This is why I posted it. If you know what the police are taught, you can perhaps prepare yourself if you ever come under suspicion.

After reading that, and reading Some the of VCRA I’m not entirely sure what’s best to believe or trust.

 

[proffrink]

This is regarding the 'bb guns'  not airsoft section. But maybe anyone can clear this up for me. 

View attachment 42220

Does this mean my Dan wesson 715 pellet gun is classed as prohibited? That's how it reads to me but surely it's not. Maybe 18.8 clears it up... 

Edit: if a police officer read his handbook and then examined the gun, would he not class it as prohibited? 

CO2 cartridge is in the grip, so I'd imagine not. This seems to reference gas being held in a casing of some sort.

 

[Resistor170]

CO2 cartridge is in the grip, so I'd imagine not. This seems to reference gas being held in a casing of some sort.

It can also be read as projectiles being forced out of the casing...

...but after reading it again with what you have said, I think you are exactly right

 

[Tackle]

maybe its so ambiguous for a reason ?, giving the police more flexibility in their interpretation when on the job, essentially covering their arses & allowing them to be more proactive in situations involving rifs etc.

or am I just a cynical old cnut ?

 

[Resistor170]

maybe its so ambiguous for a reason ?, giving the police more flexibility in their interpretation when on the job, essentially covering their arses & allowing them to be more proactive in situations involving rifs etc.

or am I just a cynical old cnut ?

I did also wonder this, it would be a smart move. I think you are probably right, otherwise you'd think they would make this crystal clear. But I am also cynical

 

[clumpyedge]

CO2 cartridge is in the grip, so I'd imagine not. This seems to reference gas being held in a casing of some sort.

Wonder how APS shotguns fall into that where the casings themselves are gassed, like you say though its worded as such that they can almost use their digression or as some would put it "do I want to be a dick today"

 

[Resistor170]

Wonder how APS shotguns fall into that where the casings themselves are gassed, like you say though its worded as such that they can almost use their digression or as some would put it "do I want to be a dick today"

If these are airsoft only then seems like they are fine because the part in question was under bb guns. (I know this is an airsoft forum sorry). 

If they are also made for 4.5mm steel bb then no matter which way you look at the wording, surely either these or the cartridge revolvers would have to be probhibited... 

 

[clumpyedge]

If these are airsoft only then seems like they are fine because the part in question was under bb guns. (I know this is an airsoft forum sorry). 

If they are also made for 4.5mm steel bb then no matter which way you look at the wording, surely either these or the cartridge revolvers would have to be probhibited... 

Like you say its all in the wording, after all if any of the above guns are altered to come above certain thresholds etc they then all come under one or more firearms offenses

 

[Immortal]

This is regarding the 'bb guns'  not airsoft section. But maybe anyone can clear this up for me. 

View attachment 42220

Does this mean my Dan wesson 715 pellet gun is classed as prohibited? That's how it reads to me but surely it's not. Maybe 18.8 clears it up... 

Edit: if a police officer read his handbook and then examined the gun, would he not class it as prohibited? 

This reference is for Gas powered shotgun shells. Years ago you could buy shotgun gas shell powered air rifles. They are totally illegal now. However we seem to be able to buy the equivalent design now but the ammo is not lead and they are classed as Airsoft rifs and not airguns.

 

[Resistor170]

This reference is for Gas powered shotgun shells. Years ago you could buy shotgun gas shell powered air rifles. They are totally illegal now. However we seem to be able to buy the equivalent design now but the ammo is not lead and they are classed as Airsoft rifs and not airguns.

I think you have cleared that up. Thanks. I own some air pistols and have various different types of targets for garden fun. In my view having a shotgun system for garden target shooting would ruin the fun/challenge. For airsoft skirmishing they are much more appropriate so hopefully they won't end up being banned too. 

 

[Tommikka]

I haven’t fully digested the content, but there were airguns such as brocock pistols which fired a ball from a ‘bullet’

These were precharged with air in the ‘bullet’ and became illegal

You could get them covered in a firearms certificate, but going through  that you may as well get a firearm, so brococks were surrendered in a firearms amnesty

If powered by 12gram co2 etc then the pistol is legal (as long as it complies with power levels etc as well)

 

[Immortal]

I haven’t fully digested the content, but there were airguns such as brocock pistols which fired a ball from a ‘bullet’

These were precharged with air in the ‘bullet’ and became illegal 

Yes indeed, essentially the same self contained gas shell system capable and designed to a fire lead round or equivalent.




You can buy the MadMax shotgun in this country however they remove one of the OEM supplied ammos available outside the EU that is like a flachete dart. If they included this specific round then it would be classed as an illegal firearm. But as it's strictly sold as firing plastic BBs it is a "get around' and therefore perfectly legal to own.

 

[Resistor170]

Understood now and see what it is about. We were also discussing the wording in the handbook and how it could be interpreted by a police officer when inspecting, say, one of the cartridge airgun revolvers. Personally looking back through it I think there is punctuation missing.

After knowing what I know now, it should be written... "if the projectiles are forced out, by gas from a self contained cartridge (these resemble a bullet and casing)... Etc. 

But instead they don't use the comma so it could be read like this..." if the projectiles are forced out by gas, from a self contained cartridge (resembling a bullet and casing)... Etc. 

So like as tackle said before, I am inclined to agree this might have been done on purpose to help the police with progress. 

Please no smart arsed comments about me using incorrect punctuation when pointing out bad punctuation ?

 

[1st commando]

The "self contained cartridge" thing was the so called "brocock ban" and relates to airguns which by legal definition are "firearms" and not to "imitation firearms" which by legal definition are "not firearms".

This came up many years ago in relation to moscarts which by basic definition fell under the brocock ban but we clarified as not being subject to it as they were not for use in "firearms" in the airgun category 

 

[Resistor170]

The "self contained cartridge" thing was the so called "brocock ban" and relates to airguns which by legal definition are "firearms" and not to "imitation firearms" which by legal definition are "not firearms".

This came up many years ago in relation to moscarts which by basic definition fell under the brocock ban but we clarified as not being subject to it as they were not for use in "firearms" in the airgun category 

Yep this question has been cleared up regarding the legalities and how it came about. My questions weren't about the Airsoft rifs but the lead or steel bb 'firearms'. (airsoft forum I know sorry). And about how police officers could interpret that sentence and therefore act upon it - which is unanswerable and I am not going to try to find out! ?